INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: RageBeoulve on January 08, 2015, 12:01:24 PM
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Well..... ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXIjLJWHJUo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXIjLJWHJUo#ws)
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Correction: Why can't men's rights advocates do their thing without opposition from feminists?
fixed. 8)
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More videos with no articles, info or transcripts. Fuck this.
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More videos with no articles, info or transcripts. Fuck this.
Sources are in the lowbar.
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Correction: Why can't men's rights advocates do their thing without opposition from feminists?
fixed. 8)
That does seem to be the end point, eh? :zoinks:
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Are you really an MRA, or just anti-feminist?
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Are you really an MRA, or just anti-feminist?
Neither. I sympathize with the plight of these fellows, yet disagree with their path. They are attempting to play within the system that already exists, in a similar neo-Marxist fashion to modern feminists.
No good can really come of this.
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Are you really an MRA, or just anti-feminist?
Neither. I sympathize with the plight of these fellows, yet disagree with their path. They are attempting to play within the system that already exists, in a similar neo-Marxist fashion to modern feminists.
No good can really come of this.
Do you have a better approach??
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Are you really an MRA, or just anti-feminist?
Neither. I sympathize with the plight of these fellows, yet disagree with their path. They are attempting to play within the system that already exists, in a similar neo-Marxist fashion to modern feminists.
No good can really come of this.
Do you have a better approach??
A new system. I personally tire of the endless bickering, the harmful hiveminds, the establishment of coercion.
Don't get me wrong, there are good people advocating all these things. Feminism itself is not inherently evil, but the ideology as an establishment had become borglike and has taken on a personality of it's own(which I am sure you are familiar with).
MRAs have not really become an ideology as such yet, but I do not really think that they are immune to the patterns that have taken hold in other civil rights movements.
I really do see a "rape culture", but it has nothing to do with sex or any other aspect of individual identity. It is something which has always been really hard to point at. Its a tribal, forceful, domineering aspect of these kinds of established ideas.
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What new system??
You only talk about the problem, which is well known.
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What new system??
You only talk about the problem, which is well known.
I was asked if I was a proponent of one of these groups, and I said no and gave my reasons. You asked me if I had a better approach, and I believe a unified system without all the Marxism would suffice. I'm likely not going to suddenly lead such a system right out of this thread or anything, because I myself am not a leader.
I'm willing to talk about it though, if that's -okay-. :zoinks: Hahaha
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In case there are people who hate youtube and don't want to go to the man's lowbar for his sources, i'll paste them here.
Re: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0jk1... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0jk1...)
VarmitCoyote asks me a couple of questions. He is waiting to get his internet connection back in his home for a Skype conversation with me.
I only answer one of his questions because I would prefer to address the other in the Skype vid.
SUMMARY OF ANSWER
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I can advocate men's issues without attacking anyone. I wish I did not have to fight at all, but this is politics.
I do not attack women, just feminism. The two are very different. It's okay to distrust an ideology that does not do what it says it does.
Feminism is institutionalized in journalism, education and government. It is impossible to not deal with feminism. People like myself face opposition from feminism even if we are good citizens.
"Not all feminists are like that?" And? Who cares how feminism is "supposed" to work when decision makers don't care? A small handful of feminists like Christina Hoff Sommers who actually noticed their own ideology go crazy have trouble
challenging fellow feminists.
Antifeminism developed out of a growing distrust for feminism, not out of a desire to hurt women. Antifeminists, both men and women, are unhappy with feminism. Accountability is one of our tools for getting neglected issues out the door and into the spotlight.
SOURCES BELOW
OPPOSING PEACEFUL ADVOCATES
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Examples of feminists abusing people who never set out to hurt feminism.
Some of the people abused are actually former feminists.
*University of Toronto Clusterfuck*
http://equalitycanada.com/cafe-respon... (http://equalitycanada.com/cafe-respon...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCx... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCx...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxY-5I... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxY-5I...)
*Erin Pizzey*
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/c... (http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/c...)
*Earl Silverman*
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/... (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/...) (Also see comment by MikeMurphy)
For completeness I include the other side. The below article claims feminism had nothing to do with Earl's death. My counterargument is that while some feminists acknowledge male victims, institutions with a strong feminist presence still have to answer for biased representation that contradicts the values feminism claims to have. MRAs are caught between a rock (men's issues) and a hard place (feminist control).
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/29/femin... (http://www.salon.com/2013/04/29/femin...)
*Abusive pro-choice protest*
I am pro-choice. Doesn't mean it's right to go berserk over it.
http://www.infobae.com/2013/11/26/152... (http://www.infobae.com/2013/11/26/152...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPUvUY... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPUvUY...)
Note addressed to me for my peaceful college activism
http://www.mediafire.com/view/59ubscb... (http://www.mediafire.com/view/59ubscb...)
SPREADING MISINFORMATION
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2% false rape
http://ncfm.org/libraryfiles/Children... (http://ncfm.org/libraryfiles/Children...)
1% of world's property myth:
http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/arch... (http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/arch...)
My WHO "1 in 3" Report reading
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oiVf0... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oiVf0...)
Pay gap myth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH4lb8... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH4lb8...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDP... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDP...)
WAM! #FBRape
http://www.womenactionmedia.org/faceb... (http://www.womenactionmedia.org/faceb...)
My article on the WAM! campaign. I discover Facebook applies their mod policies evenly (kind of), but WAM!'s bias still stands.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/... (http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/...)
WAM! targeted the following two posters that are critical of feminism, but not hateful to women.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/wp-conten... (http://www.avoiceformen.com/wp-conten...)
http://www.avoiceformen.com/wp-conten... (http://www.avoiceformen.com/wp-conten...)
*Additional reading*
http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-righ... (http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-righ...)
HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS
============================
International coverage by Lucian Valsan
http://www.avoiceformen.com/author/vi... (http://www.avoiceformen.com/author/vi...)
http://www.avoiceformen.com/suggested... (http://www.avoiceformen.com/suggested...)
Nicholas Alahverdian
http://www.scribd.com/doc/136377148/A... (http://www.scribd.com/doc/136377148/A...)
http://alahverdian.com/files/ (http://alahverdian.com/files/)
Interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TTH1x... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TTH1x...)
Vladek Filler
http://www.fillerfund.com/ (http://www.fillerfund.com/)
EXTRA READING
============================
List of feminist representatives as members of European Parliament.
These are feminists in decision making capacity in government.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/... (http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/...)
To the "nice" feminists
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/... (http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/...)
Prison rape
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/men-... (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/men-...)
http://gawker.com/the-story-of-one-pr... (http://gawker.com/the-story-of-one-pr...)
Shit feminists do on campus
http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/... (http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/...)
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Nah I read them earlier when you flagged them (thanks!) but I hadn't had time to write a response yet. And now it is late.
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Nah I read them earlier when you flagged them (thanks!) but I hadn't had time to write a response yet. And now it is late.
Its cool. The only reason I really find mras interesting is because they were largely considered to be piss ants and ignored until MGTOW.
I have to kind of smirk at that. The UK actually had a sperm shortage just last year. :LOL:
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I see things I like about MGTOW and things I like about MRA's. I see relevance in both movements. I also see stuff in there that I do not agree with.
My position? I am anti-Feminist. That's it. I do not hate women. I do not even hate all people that call themselves or define themselves as Feminists. To me it is like someone saying that they believe in conspiracy theories like hollow-earth theory. It certainly doesn't lend further credibility to the person and it does not mean that everything they think is stupid. However, it is not something to live up to but rather live down.
Now some may say "Well my believe in Feminism is really just "a,b,c": in which case I will look at that "interpretation" completely divorced from what Feminism is and does. I do not give a damn about the true radicals. Nor about the equity Feminists (You know, I just think that men and women should be equal - yup don't we all - doesn't make you a Feminist for thinking so). The radicals are of no consequence ....except for the fact that bit by bit the less radical positions are see over time as moderate. It is the moderates that are the problem. The ones with their fingers in the pies and the victim politicking and oppression narratives firing. Not the kill 90% of males and keep the rest for breeding or ALL sex is rape, these people are of no consequence and only exist to make the crackpots like Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian (that otherwise would be view as crazed radicals themselves) as moderates.
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I see things I like about MGTOW and things I like about MRA's. I see relevance in both movements. I also see stuff in there that I do not agree with.
My position? I am anti-Feminist. That's it. I do not hate women. I do not even hate all people that call themselves or define themselves as Feminists. To me it is like someone saying that they believe in conspiracy theories like hollow-earth theory. It certainly doesn't lend further credibility to the person and it does not mean that everything they think is stupid. However, it is not something to live up to but rather live down.
Now some may say "Well my believe in Feminism is really just "a,b,c": in which case I will look at that "interpretation" completely divorced from what Feminism is and does. I do not give a damn about the true radicals. Nor about the equity Feminists (You know, I just think that men and women should be equal - yup don't we all - doesn't make you a Feminist for thinking so). The radicals are of no consequence ....except for the fact that bit by bit the less radical positions are see over time as moderate. It is the moderates that are the problem. The ones with their fingers in the pies and the victim politicking and oppression narratives firing. Not the kill 90% of males and keep the rest for breeding or ALL sex is rape, these people are of no consequence and only exist to make the crackpots like Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian (that otherwise would be view as crazed radicals themselves) as moderates.
I guess we see things about the same, then. I guess one could say that I -am- an antifeminist then, but I am not an activist. At least not how the current consciousness defines "activism".
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I don't like the term anti-feminist because feminism covers such a wide spectrum of beliefs.
I'm only anti hypocrisy and stupidity.
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I used to say that, but the institution of feminism can't be ignored in it's current majority of effect. I really can't see a use for it at this point.
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I used to say that, but the institution of feminism can't be ignored in it's current majority of effect. I really can't see a use for it at this point.
Neither you nor I are the ones who get to determine that. I think we'll always need the equity feminists to keep MRA movements honest.
I view the genders as needing ballance in the yin & yang sense.
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Ehh. I'd much rather throw all of it in the trash.
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Equity Feminists are not Feminists in the same sense that the Feminists that affect social change and inform social commentary are Feminists.
Equity Feminists are Humanist that simply choose to apply the term of Feminist to their Humanism.
Equity Feminists are of no consequence in the Feminist culture other than to paster a reasonable face to what is a poisonous ideology filled with dishonest narratives.
Equity Feminists are of no consequence to MRAs. Not because they would not support MRAs want of gender equality (I am sure there is considerable common ground) but simply they are of no effect in the Feminist circles and that the moment they support ANY individual or ideology that does not go with their powerful "moderate" Feminist "sisters and brothers" they will be rounded on and sent packing.
Equity Feminists are LESS listened to than the crazy radical Feminists.
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^
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eh I have no idea...I'm not a feminist for one because of it's roots...look them up...secondly, they do not even know what they stand for any longer...end of :headhurts:
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Without causing undue offence Hannah (I know unlike probably most on here, you are religious...and if it makes you feel better, so are my children) Feminism is a dogmatic ideology, and religion is too.
The relevance to this is precisely that if someone says that they are Feminist, what have they told you?
If someone tells you that they are religious, what have they told you?
You see the problem here. You know some of the general elements but have no idea what aspects of the ideology inform their life. Ar they nice or nasty? Are they righteous or humble? Are they happy to condemn those not like them or are they tolerant?
Personally I see both as poisonous ideologies and that both ideologies require an amount of ignoring or downplaying of many aspects of the ideology to get to a place where it is not harmful to both the individual or others the individual may interact with.
Many people who are Feminist think that by vouching their belief in this ideology "I am a Feminist", others will suddenly rise in expectation or raise their social standing. I ca only say that for me, it does rather the opposite. I am instantly on guard and suspicious (and in want of clarification).
The same with religious people. As I said my kids are religious. I even drop my daughter off to church. But her faith is a gentle sort of belief system. Not intolerant and not exclusionary, nor bigoted. Hers is not about Damnation or being inherently worthless or a righteous charge. Hers is uplifting, open and friendly.
The same applies to Feminism. If someone believes superficially in feminism as a want for men and women to be the equal, fine Or even as a want for men and women to be equal, AND a want to see all inroads into establishing equal rights, as NOT a natural effect of modernisation and more stable societies, but of women pushing back...Okay. That is fine. But the further you take this along the more pointed and exclusionary and bigoted and subject to very harmful interpretations.
Now I still think that believing in a God and miracles and so on, is quaint and a bit silly, but I understand my experience is not others. I do not begrudge my daughter or anyone else for believing in what they want BUT I sure as Hell do not think that religious belief or Feminist belief is something that ought to be seen as the moral high road nor that all Feminist belief or Religious belief ought to be accepted as decent, acceptable, rational, constructive and good for society.
We ought to, as a society got past the stage where people automatically give credence to someone because they are a Reverend or a Feminist Critic or whatever. People ought to be valued on what they think, not what title or job description they identify with.
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We ought to, as a society got past the stage where people automatically give credence to someone because they are a Reverend or a Feminist Critic or whatever. People ought to be valued on what they think, not what title or job description they identify with.
Some people in certain positions and with certain belief sets should be suspect, regardless of what they might claim to what think. Heck, even David Duke makes public statements against terrorist actions and claims to not be racist; says all the right things when needed. Lots of people do it, and those in positions of leadership within politics and religion are more likely to. Am more impressed by what people actually do.
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You are correct Al! :plus: It is an individual thing...I don't attempt to be 'dogmatic' if it came across as such sorry about that... :nerdy: For many it is religion...For myself it is very individual relationship wise not religion wise...It is a relationship with the creator God, many can't understand...some don't want to understand, I get it...
I get folks not understanding for I myself wrestled with my own faith for a long while until two years ago and sense it has been gently defined in a way that I cannot put into words...I feel as though you'd be fascinating to sit down with and have coffee and discuss ideas...
Religion is death to me, religion kicked me out of several congregations, religion was something constrictive and in the end almost killed me...a relationship with a God on the other hand who is misunderstood is something that I can relate to and someone I can bank on...
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Just letting you now, Hannah, I do not know much about your religious beliefs apart from the fact that they were seeming to be similar to an ex AFF poster called "GuessWho". The midwest fire and brimstone kind of old testament fundamental religion.
Your experience with religion is very different t mine. I grew up without religion or religious influence. For most of my life I could not have told you what people do in church or who around me was religious and certainly not what denomination. I am sure your life experience about yourself and the society you were raised in was very different.
I was not trying to make any specific references about you or your beliefs.
My want was to underline the similarities in dogmatic belief structures (religion and Feminism). Being "religious" and being "feminist" i not necessarily bad or necessarily good. A Feminist or a religious person may be good bad or indifferent, so it is foolhardy to give unwarranted credit to anyone for holding a broad belief like Feminism or religion. Actions speak louder than words. You CAN be a very good person and still be Feminist. You CAN be a good person and be a Feminist. I rather think that to be so will be DESPITE your beliefs. But it is not to say it is impossible
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Equity Feminists are LESS listened to than the crazy radical Feminists.
They sure seem to be on here in this type of discussion.
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Equity Feminists are LESS listened to than the crazy radical Feminists.
They sure seem to be on here in this type of discussion.
You may misunderstand me.
I do not think that the Equity Feminists are listened to in the mainstream or with the Feminists that drive social policy and changes. That is where it matters.
Does it matter in this little forum? No, but you would be right. A radical or moderate Feminist would not get listened to pushing their various narratives. An Equity Feminist would be VERY listened to. For example, I am Anti-Feminist BUT I want my son and daughter to have the very best out of life and be treated with equal respect and consideration. It is a humanist approach NOT a Feminist approach. It is that of a caring Dad.
See the difference?