INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Yuri Bezmenov on December 14, 2014, 09:41:12 AM
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I'm amazed at many of the people I've known since grade school who were godless heathens growing up but they get married, have a kid or two, then turn into huge Jesus freaks.
Any thoughts? I'm stumped.
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Maybe they had some sort of crisis in their lives that seems to turn a lot to that sort of thing
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Maybe god spoke to them. :zoinks:
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Maybe they stopped taking their meds :zoinks:
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Maybe they had some sort of crisis in their lives that seems to turn a lot to that sort of thing
I was the opposite, quite religious until I was 11 years old then when there was a crisis (an out of home crisis this time around) I turned away from religion and was a full-blown Atheist by the time I was fourteen. Have been ever since.
I'm a better person for it, too. :thumbup:
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One time my toast looked like jesus and I sold it for 60 bucks on ebay. :zoinks:
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One time my toast looked like jesus and I sold it for 60 bucks on ebay. :zoinks:
Only 60? You're insane! :autism:
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You can't find religion if you didn't lose it in the first place.
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- Anxiety, hoping for a cure in religion, when other things did not work well or fast enough. (going for the more Billy Graham like churches.) And then feel bad that you still can be depressed when you should be happy.
- Love for ritual, beauty and mystery in life. (going for Roman Catholic churches.) There was a hype of that amongst writers a few decades ago here.
- Getting hooked on the community, or the language it brings to give words to things otherwise unspeakable. Often the least proselyting way of conversion.
- Temporal lobe epilepsy. (that can come with dramatic urges in the religious realm.)
- Social justice/life improvement. Can be found among oppressed people, when a church dares to stand up for them.
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Fear of mortality.
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Fear of mortality.
That's a good one. Always thought it more to do with absolution, in the case of Christianity anyway. There's some wrongs that can't be righted. Absolution has always seemed such a foreign concept, unable to be grasped, or understand why anyone would even want it.
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Fear of mortality.
That's a good one. Always thought it more to do with absolution, in the case of Christianity anyway. There's some wrongs that can't be righted. Absolution has always seemed such a foreign concept, unable to be grasped, or understand why anyone would even want it.
Absolution is useful if there is an afterlife and if there are less than attractive alternatives to it.
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As an atheist, I do respect the comfort religion and being a part of a church community can give some people... but I find it kind of unsettling, in principal, to contemplate how much of an impact religion has on... well, everything, but especially politics here in the US. So many bad national decisions have been made based on what I kinda view as a giant shared delusion. It's creepy.
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As an atheist, I do respect the comfort religion and being a part of a church community can give some people... but I find it kind of unsettling, in principal, to contemplate how much of an impact religion has on... well, everything, but especially politics here in the US. So many bad national decisions have been made based on what I kinda view as a giant shared delusion. It's creepy.
I know this sounds horrible but I give no more weight to prayers than I do self-improvement mantras, casting spells, or anything similar. I see it all as terribly quaint and endearing. They go inside a building, Sit down have someone tell stories to them give some pat advice, they act impressed, they sing a few songs and cast a few spells and file out maybe have small talk and something to eat and go home.
No issue.....until it becomes an issue. then it is no longer quaint.
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I don't think it sounds all that horrible, Al.
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Fear of mortality.
That's a good one. Always thought it more to do with absolution, in the case of Christianity anyway. There's some wrongs that can't be righted. Absolution has always seemed such a foreign concept, unable to be grasped, or understand why anyone would even want it.
I know people who are terrified of mortality because of being religious, and those who are terrified not being religious. Religion does not solve the fear if the fear is part of the individual.
Absolution, at it's best it is a kick in the ass, to not get wallow in self pity after fucking things up beyond repair. Get over it, make amends where you can, and try to do better. At worst, it is used as a way to get away with murder and more, and in the end buy your righteousness.
Both wanting absolution and fear of mortality might be reason to suddenly become religious I guess.
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Some people I've noticed become their parents and find religion after they have kids because they feel some strange moral obligation to have to teach their kids the same stuff they had to sit through.
Some seem to turn to it out of fear after a health scare, or out of comfort after there is no one left or life hits them broadside.
SO found religion after his health scare, and I have no problem with it as long as he doesn't inflict it on anyone who doesn't want to hear it. If it brings him comfort, that's good.
I find myself doing some of the same little :voodoo: stuff mom used to do now that she is gone...sometimes it brings me comfort. I keep to myself about it, and I haven't sacrificed any of the neighbors chickens.
Whatever gets you through the night. :dunno:
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I have always been a Jesus freak and not afraid of what others thought of it...I learned much of what I knew through actual studying of the word different languages different interpretations etc. And the accounts in the bible themselves are not fairy tails as there are other books outside of Christianity that point to the validity of them...I do think however that my recent bout with the 'dark night of the soul' if you will caused me to question and even rant and rail at God...He was surprisingly not surprised by my language and or my being upset at him indirectly or directly...He isn't strictly male ether, for God is Spirit I've found and has many female attributes as well which most unless they take the time to bother to get to know God won't find out...
It's hard to put into written form but He has gone from head knowledge to heart and head and it is there in that aspect I kid you not He finds me not the other way around...It's more like 'Oh hey Hannah' then anything and like any friendship all he wants are folks to get to know Him as a being just for Him not what He can do or lack of it etc...
He became my Lord the Lover of my soul when I had no one and I mean no one else to turn to...I stand on this foundation more then a feeling because I still wouldn't be cutting free if I didn't know the Lord (some stop and struggle with it and honestly I still struggle with the idea) but right away I talk to God just like I'm typing to you all now, and that 'way of escape' that is spoken of comes when one just is honest with God with no hidden agendas...I've found God has made autuies to be more this way then any other humans I've come into contact with and for that I find it refreshing...
It took a divine creative brain to devise the uniqueness of each of you here, it's not by chance...and it's one of the many reasons I love Him so is because I see Him His qualities in each of you... :yarly:
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I suppose I got a Christian upbringing, mostly because everyone else did. I even went to Sunday school for a little while, but that didn't last all that long for me. We came to an understanding rather quickly. :zoinks:
When I became a parent, I saw no need for my kids to go through the same thing. My wife did to some extent, mostly out of tradition, but this one I rather effectively vetoed. I want my kids to think for themselves.
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As an atheist, I do respect the comfort religion and being a part of a church community can give some people... but I find it kind of unsettling, in principal, to contemplate how much of an impact religion has on... well, everything, but especially politics here in the US. So many bad national decisions have been made based on what I kinda view as a giant shared delusion. It's creepy.
I know this sounds horrible but I give no more weight to prayers than I do self-improvement mantras, casting spells, or anything similar. I see it all as terribly quaint and endearing. They go inside a building, Sit down have someone tell stories to them give some pat advice, they act impressed, they sing a few songs and cast a few spells and file out maybe have small talk and something to eat and go home.
No issue.....until it becomes an issue. then it is no longer quaint.
I agree with odeon. Doesn't sound horrible to me.
When people on fb post things asking for their flist to pray for them (when this most often comes up), I always feel awkward- I want to give support, but what they're asking for is something I believe in as little as I believe in casting a magic spell (which is what they really want, anyway). If I want to respond to something like that to show support I typically say I will be keeping them in my thought.
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Fear of mortality.
That's a good one. Always thought it more to do with absolution, in the case of Christianity anyway. There's some wrongs that can't be righted. Absolution has always seemed such a foreign concept, unable to be grasped, or understand why anyone would even want it.
Absolution is useful if there is an afterlife and if there are less than attractive alternatives to it.
It would be useful even without afterlife, but they do go nicely together, yes.
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As an atheist, I do respect the comfort religion and being a part of a church community can give some people... but I find it kind of unsettling, in principal, to contemplate how much of an impact religion has on... well, everything, but especially politics here in the US. So many bad national decisions have been made based on what I kinda view as a giant shared delusion. It's creepy.
I know this sounds horrible but I give no more weight to prayers than I do self-improvement mantras, casting spells, or anything similar. I see it all as terribly quaint and endearing. They go inside a building, Sit down have someone tell stories to them give some pat advice, they act impressed, they sing a few songs and cast a few spells and file out maybe have small talk and something to eat and go home.
No issue.....until it becomes an issue. then it is no longer quaint.
I agree with odeon. Doesn't sound horrible to me.
When people on fb post things asking for their flist to pray for them (when this most often comes up), I always feel awkward- I want to give support, but what they're asking for is something I believe in as little as I believe in casting a magic spell (which is what they really want, anyway). If I want to respond to something like that to show support I typically say I will be keeping them in my thought.
It's more or less what I say, too. What I sometimes would like to say is that I'll sacrifice to the gods and read the innards of the neighbour's dog to make sure things go their way, but I suspect that may be counter-productive.
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Fear of mortality.
That's a good one. Always thought it more to do with absolution, in the case of Christianity anyway. There's some wrongs that can't be righted. Absolution has always seemed such a foreign concept, unable to be grasped, or understand why anyone would even want it.
Absolution is useful if there is an afterlife and if there are less than attractive alternatives to it.
It would be useful even without afterlife, but they do go nicely together, yes.
Absolution without afterlife is a useless concept. Forgiveness, on the other hand, applies to the living. That, and a good alibi.
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As an atheist, I do respect the comfort religion and being a part of a church community can give some people... but I find it kind of unsettling, in principal, to contemplate how much of an impact religion has on... well, everything, but especially politics here in the US. So many bad national decisions have been made based on what I kinda view as a giant shared delusion. It's creepy.
I know this sounds horrible but I give no more weight to prayers than I do self-improvement mantras, casting spells, or anything similar. I see it all as terribly quaint and endearing. They go inside a building, Sit down have someone tell stories to them give some pat advice, they act impressed, they sing a few songs and cast a few spells and file out maybe have small talk and something to eat and go home.
No issue.....until it becomes an issue. then it is no longer quaint.
I agree with odeon. Doesn't sound horrible to me.
When people on fb post things asking for their flist to pray for them (when this most often comes up), I always feel awkward- I want to give support, but what they're asking for is something I believe in as little as I believe in casting a magic spell (which is what they really want, anyway). If I want to respond to something like that to show support I typically say I will be keeping them in my thought.
It's more or less what I say, too. What I sometimes would like to say is that I'll sacrifice to the gods and read the innards of the neighbour's dog to make sure things go their way, but I suspect that may be counter-productive.
:lol1:
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Interesting, thing is that both my kids believe in God and all of that. I again have no issue. In fact, I took my daughter to church the other day. While she did her thing, I did the shopping and picked her up after. The Minister asked if I was interested in joining her and I said, "Not in the slightest mate, I am an Atheist. She seems to like it though". He looked a touch confused
For anyone who cares, it is a VERY progressive church (Social activism, Gays allowed in the church and in the clergy, etc).. As far as churches go it is really ahead of the curve and quite accepting. Personally, I think that this is a GREAT move for them. They are almost keeping up with Australian society that is quickly outgrowing the need for Christian churches. In Australia, i would reckon that 15% are religious, but non-Christian, 15% are Practicing Christians, and 20% are sort of Christians (that is believe in something spiritual and God-ish and yeah maybe Jesus was around....)but NOT practicing
I was not raised with any religious influence. I had no idea what people did in church, who around us was religious or what religious beliefs were.
I turned out alright...???? :hahaha: :autism:
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Interesting, thing is that both my kids believe in God and all of that. I again have no issue. In fact, I took my daughter to church the other day. While she did her thing, I did the shopping and picked her up after. The Minister asked if I was interested in joining her and I said, "Not in the slightest mate, I am an Atheist. She seems to like it though". He looked a touch confused
For anyone who cares, it is a VERY progressive church (Social activism, Gays allowed in the church and in the clergy, etc).. As far as churches go it is really ahead of the curve and quite accepting. Personally, I think that this is a GREAT move for them. They are almost keeping up with Australian society that is quickly outgrowing the need for Christian churches. In Australia, i would reckon that 15% are religious, but non-Christian, 15% are Practicing Christians, and 20% are sort of Christians (that is believe in something spiritual and God-ish and yeah maybe Jesus was around....)but NOT practicing
I was not raised with any religious influence. I had no idea what people did in church, who around us was religious or what religious beliefs were.
I turned out alright...???? :hahaha: :autism:
Oldest child was drawn to Christianity at a very early age. Let her make her own way too. Wasn't raised in the church, but that was more circumstantial; mom tried as more of a effort to fit into the community, but made to feel unwelcome. She made no effort to teach me, so learned about it on my own.
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Fear of mortality.
That's a good one. Always thought it more to do with absolution, in the case of Christianity anyway. There's some wrongs that can't be righted. Absolution has always seemed such a foreign concept, unable to be grasped, or understand why anyone would even want it.
Absolution is useful if there is an afterlife and if there are less than attractive alternatives to it.
It would be useful even without afterlife, but they do go nicely together, yes.
Absolution without afterlife is a useless concept. Forgiveness, on the other hand, applies to the living. That, and a good alibi.
Absolution is freedom from personal guilt, and a very powerful concept on its own. People need to be forgiven; that's why they apologize and seek forgiveness. In some circumstances, jesus is the only one available to accept the apology. Personally prefer to own my own guilt so not saying absolution is a rational concept, only useful.
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I DO think the kind of Absolution From Jesus for the sin of forefathers, as a result of him being crucified to death is rather ugly.
What I mean is that it is him excusing me and everyone for crimes we did not commit, but were soiled by, and who asked him anyhow, and what "extra" benefit is conferred by his "sacrifice"?
I mean if he wanted us all to be "cured" from this inherited sin, then why not freely give it?
The answer HAS to relate to the fact that they were all primitive tribal people not THAT far removed in culture as to be the animal sacrificing and blood sacrificing tribes of old, to know the importance of blood and live sacrificing.
We do not intuitively understand this on the same level in the way that they would not understand the internet or car or whatever.
They were not likely still doing these kinds of practices but they understood them and understood the importance of it.
I think the whole thing is barbaric and primitive and ugly as Hell.
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What I mean is that it is him excusing me and everyone for crimes we did not commit, but were soiled by, and who asked him anyhow, and what "extra" benefit is conferred by his "sacrifice"?
:laugh:
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What I sometimes would like to say is that I'll sacrifice to the gods and read the innards of the neighbour's dog to make sure things go their way, but I suspect that may be counter-productive.
lol
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Friends, their parents, grandparents. One of my best friends used to drag me to Sunday services with her, if her grandmother didn't see her there every Sunday in the pew behind her she would never hear the end about it all week long. ::)
The woman was a generally nasty human being, if she cracked a smile you would swear it was going to break her face, but she was a totally different person at church. I found it interesting....and rather sad.
Had other friends whose parents where heavily involved in the church and you never knew when you would end up at church if you came over to spend the night. That came to an abrupt end when I was around 12 or so and their oldest son got caught playing house with the pastor's wife.
My son had one grandmother doing the :christ: routine and the other with her :voodoo: ...trying to mediate that some days was a real blast. :LOL:
I too, want him to be able to think for himself on the matter.
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Fear of mortality.
That's a good one. Always thought it more to do with absolution, in the case of Christianity anyway. There's some wrongs that can't be righted. Absolution has always seemed such a foreign concept, unable to be grasped, or understand why anyone would even want it.
Absolution is useful if there is an afterlife and if there are less than attractive alternatives to it.
It would be useful even without afterlife, but they do go nicely together, yes.
Absolution without afterlife is a useless concept. Forgiveness, on the other hand, applies to the living. That, and a good alibi.
Absolution is freedom from personal guilt, and a very powerful concept on its own. People need to be forgiven; that's why they apologize and seek forgiveness. In some circumstances, jesus is the only one available to accept the apology. Personally prefer to own my own guilt so not saying absolution is a rational concept, only useful.
Actually absolution is a formal release from guilt, meaning that there needs to be an authority able to offer it. While the word itself is frequently given as a synonym to, say, pardon, it's rarely used in that sense, if ever. It almost requires that extra special religious touch. :P
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I think humanity likes to know or atleast pretend to know. When a person doesnt know its pretty distressing to them, :zoinks:
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Indeed. Although explaining away things with a god isn't knowing.
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Indeed. Although explaining away things with a god isn't knowing.
But, apparently some people find it comforting. (How that works, I don't know. The Judeo-Christian description of god is fucking horrifying. Mood swings like he's up in heaving doing crack.)
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Fear of mortality.
That's a good one. Always thought it more to do with absolution, in the case of Christianity anyway. There's some wrongs that can't be righted. Absolution has always seemed such a foreign concept, unable to be grasped, or understand why anyone would even want it.
Absolution is useful if there is an afterlife and if there are less than attractive alternatives to it.
It would be useful even without afterlife, but they do go nicely together, yes.
Absolution without afterlife is a useless concept. Forgiveness, on the other hand, applies to the living. That, and a good alibi.
Absolution is freedom from personal guilt, and a very powerful concept on its own. People need to be forgiven; that's why they apologize and seek forgiveness. In some circumstances, jesus is the only one available to accept the apology. Personally prefer to own my own guilt so not saying absolution is a rational concept, only useful.
Actually absolution is a formal release from guilt, meaning that there needs to be an authority able to offer it. While the word itself is frequently given as a synonym to, say, pardon, it's rarely used in that sense, if ever. It almost requires that extra special religious touch. :P
True, but not necessarily requiring an afterlife to be a powerful concept.
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I think humanity likes to know or atleast pretend to know. When a person doesnt know its pretty distressing to them, :zoinks:
Welcome back.
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Dropped mine off.
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Dropped mine off.
Same. I do not get anything out of it, that doesn't mean that I have to stop her. It also doesn't mean I have to put up with it either, because I think it is all nonsense and I am not hypocrite enough to go through the motions pretending otherwise.
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Dropped mine off.
Cheep daycare on Sunday mornings? :zoinks:
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Dropped mine off.
Cheep daycare on Sunday mornings? :zoinks:
:laugh:
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Indeed. Although explaining away things with a god isn't knowing.
But, apparently some people find it comforting. (How that works, I don't know. The Judeo-Christian description of god is fucking horrifying. Mood swings like he's up in heaving doing crack.)
Most gods are. I don't understand how anyone can find any explanation involving a god to be sufficient.
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Fear of mortality.
That's a good one. Always thought it more to do with absolution, in the case of Christianity anyway. There's some wrongs that can't be righted. Absolution has always seemed such a foreign concept, unable to be grasped, or understand why anyone would even want it.
Absolution is useful if there is an afterlife and if there are less than attractive alternatives to it.
It would be useful even without afterlife, but they do go nicely together, yes.
Absolution without afterlife is a useless concept. Forgiveness, on the other hand, applies to the living. That, and a good alibi.
Absolution is freedom from personal guilt, and a very powerful concept on its own. People need to be forgiven; that's why they apologize and seek forgiveness. In some circumstances, jesus is the only one available to accept the apology. Personally prefer to own my own guilt so not saying absolution is a rational concept, only useful.
Actually absolution is a formal release from guilt, meaning that there needs to be an authority able to offer it. While the word itself is frequently given as a synonym to, say, pardon, it's rarely used in that sense, if ever. It almost requires that extra special religious touch. :P
True, but not necessarily requiring an afterlife to be a powerful concept.
Not necessarily, no. A sufficiently powerful religion doesn't require it, but right now, I can't think of a single religion that would work without the promise of it.
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Dropped mine off.
Same. I do not get anything out of it, that doesn't mean that I have to stop her. It also doesn't mean I have to put up with it either, because I think it is all nonsense and I am not hypocrite enough to go through the motions pretending otherwise.
It's also what I did, when my daughter went through this thing with her friends. Plus, I encouraged her to think for herself when picking her up afterwards and discussing what she had just heard.
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Dropped mine off.
Cheep daycare on Sunday mornings? :zoinks:
When my boy was one or two, we were looking for daycare for him. My wife found this one place that looked promising, with lots of space and educational toys and teachers per kid and and whatnot. Very promising indeed, until one of the teachers mentioned that they were following the lead of the great Ron L Hubbard in everything they did.
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:tinfoil:
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Dropped mine off.
Cheep daycare on Sunday mornings? :zoinks:
When my boy was one or two, we were looking for daycare for him. My wife found this one place that looked promising, with lots of space and educational toys and teachers per kid and and whatnot. Very promising indeed, until one of the teachers mentioned that they were following the lead of the great Ron L Hubbard in everything they did.
Did she charge extra for that? :zoinks:
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Dropped mine off.
Cheep daycare on Sunday mornings? :zoinks:
When my boy was one or two, we were looking for daycare for him. My wife found this one place that looked promising, with lots of space and educational toys and teachers per kid and and whatnot. Very promising indeed, until one of the teachers mentioned that they were following the lead of the great Ron L Hubbard in everything they did.
Did she charge extra for that? :zoinks:
I don't think so. :-\
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Dropped mine off.
Cheep daycare on Sunday mornings? :zoinks:
When my boy was one or two, we were looking for daycare for him. My wife found this one place that looked promising, with lots of space and educational toys and teachers per kid and and whatnot. Very promising indeed, until one of the teachers mentioned that they were following the lead of the great Ron L Hubbard in everything they did.
Did she charge extra for that? :zoinks:
I don't think so. :-\
That's not very Scientology of her, now is it? :zoinks:
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Dropped mine off.
Cheep daycare on Sunday mornings? :zoinks:
When my boy was one or two, we were looking for daycare for him. My wife found this one place that looked promising, with lots of space and educational toys and teachers per kid and and whatnot. Very promising indeed, until one of the teachers mentioned that they were following the lead of the great Ron L Hubbard in everything they did.
Did she charge extra for that? :zoinks:
I don't think so. :-\
That's not very Scientology of her, now is it? :zoinks:
Actually it is. Usually they try to lure you in before they charge extra.
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:lol1:
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I'm amazed at many of the people I've known since grade school who were godless heathens growing up but they get married, have a kid or two, then turn into huge Jesus freaks.
Any thoughts? I'm stumped.
A woman I work with abandoned Catholicism as a young adult, but returned to church after having kids.
She and her husband felt a need for religion to give their kids moral structure or something. :pope:
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One time my toast looked like jesus and I sold it for 60 bucks on ebay. :zoinks:
You're worse than Judas Iscariot. No carrots for you in hell. :M
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Indeed. Although explaining away things with a god isn't knowing.
"Glauben heisst nicht vissen." Believing is not knowing. The only German my father ever taught me. :heisenberg:
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How do kids get involved in a church if their parents don't go? Do they go with their friends?
Dropped mine off.
Cheep daycare on Sunday mornings? :zoinks:
When my boy was one or two, we were looking for daycare for him. My wife found this one place that looked promising, with lots of space and educational toys and teachers per kid and and whatnot. Very promising indeed, until one of the teachers mentioned that they were following the lead of the great Ron L Hubbard in everything they did.
Did she charge extra for that? :zoinks:
I don't think so. :-\
That's not very Scientology of her, now is it? :zoinks:
Actually it is. Usually they try to lure you in before they charge extra.
Any good dealer knows, the first taste is free. :heisenberg:
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R.E.M. - Losing My Religion (Video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwtdhWltSIg#)
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Depeche Mode - Personal Jesus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7giYabNvgY#ws)
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Christopher Hitchens: Brutal Four Minutes For Religion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQox1hQrABQ#)
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I've heard about prisoners on death row finding religion.
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The thing that the religious need to appreciate (and really it ought not be a huge concession), religion is non-elvoving dogma. It is encapsulated in the Bronze/Iron Age. The morals/ethics/culture are fairly much non-flexible (word of God is at best needing translating or interpreting BUT if they say in some passage gays are bad then it can only be up for question how bad) and we are, in effect, having a Bronze Aged conversation in the Space Age. Quaint.
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Maybe we should start building our spaceships out of bronze :tard:
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The thing that the religious need to appreciate (and really it ought not be a huge concession), religion is non-elvoving dogma. It is encapsulated in the Bronze/Iron Age. The morals/ethics/culture are fairly much non-flexible (word of God is at best needing translating or interpreting BUT if they say in some passage gays are bad then it can only be up for question how bad) and we are, in effect, having a Bronze Aged conversation in the Space Age. Quaint.
True. There might be different factions, though, interpreting the dogma differently.
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Read an article yesterday about Chinese student congregations in Europe. Apparently 10% of Chinese exchange students in the Netherlands joins a Chinese Christian congregation. Mainly for social reasons. But also for a different view on life. They do not come for the free meal, most Chinese students have enough to spend, being an only child and supported massively by their parents. Some say that church is the first place where they find another meaning in life than excelling and earning lots of money and making parents proud. Some come to understand western society and it's history better. Some students are regular visitors out of curiosity and wanting contact. But quite a few of the students do convert and take this new religion home.
Chinese government is dreading this a bit, because of the social contact. Not only a social structure within their own country, a social setting the government cannot control. Also a social network that goes across borders.
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I've heard about prisoners on death row finding religion.
Just in the nick of time. :zoinks:
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I've heard about prisoners on death row finding religion.
Just in the nick of time. :zoinks:
Which is why it happens in the first place, I suppose. They grasp at straws.
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I've heard about prisoners on death row finding religion.
Just in the nick of time. :zoinks:
That reminds me of the most creepy funeral I ever attended. Neighbour had just gotten baptised in a very happy flappy Caribbean community. Then he planted his motorcycle in a truck on a very foggy morning.
There was no place for grief at the service. Only joy that he had taken the highway to heaven at massive speed. As neighbours we almost wanted to leave the place. His relatives were devastated. His parents were not allowed to take leave the way they needed for their grieving, because he had been promoted to utter glory.
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"Caribbean community"? Explain. :-\
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A pentecostal community of people from the Caribbean in the Netherlands.
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A pentecostal community of people from the Caribbean in the Netherlands.
Not sure why that reads as so funny. :laugh:
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A pentecostal community of people from the Caribbean in the Netherlands.
Not sure why that reads as so funny. :laugh:
It would be funnier if it was a colony of midgets. :green:
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A pentecostal community of people from the Caribbean in the Netherlands.
Not sure why that reads as so funny. :laugh:
I'd say bizarre. :GA:
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I found some religion the other day while I was out walking the dog but it was dirty so I didn't pick it up :zoinks:
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People drop their religions when they are done with them.
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I only pick up 14k gold or silver religions...you never know where they've been though...always best to wash your hands. ;)
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I found some religion the other day while I was out walking the dog but it was dirty so I didn't pick it up :zoinks:
I once picked up some religion in the streets, it was disguised as a five dollar bill. I placed it the proper receptacle. Litter bugs. >:(
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I found some religion the other day while I was out walking the dog but it was dirty so I didn't pick it up :zoinks:
I once picked up some religion in the streets, it was disguised as a five dollar bill. I placed it the proper receptacle. Litter bugs. >:(
It wasn't a disguise. :M
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This is another thing that has caused me to lose faith in Homo Sapiens. :grrr:
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This is another thing that has caused me to lose faith in Homo Sapiens. :grrr:
Pointless necrobumping is what's caused me to lose my faith in Homo Sapiens. :M
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I am suss of this kind of thing. My Boss is one of these guys. "When I was younger I was into drugs and drink and being a bad boy, but now I am Christian". I think that using religion to morally virtue signal to others is pathetic.
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:zoinks:
(http://www.guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/jesus_seat.jpg)
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I am suss of this kind of thing. My Boss is one of these guys. "When I was younger I was into drugs and drink and being a bad boy, but now I am Christian". I think that using religion to morally virtue signal to others is pathetic.
So from booze to Jesus. Side effects probably are better for his health.
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Only because its based on a primary alcohol, and as such, has the capacity for being metabolized into noxious things like acetaldehyde :P
Now if his boss had been into something BETTER than drink, not that I'm setting the bar too high there (see what I just did there?;D) then it would be far more open to doubt.
And xtians can be into drinking and other drugs (OTHER, because godsdamnit [and here too :P] I always get tired of people coming out with 'drink and drugs', as if they are either A-blind or too ignorant to acknowledge the fact that ethyl alcohol is as much a drug, as it may be part of items consumed as food and drink, or worse, B-THEY drink alcohol, yet disapprove of 'druggies', or whatever other selfrighteous name for people who ever choose to indulge in any alternative intoxicant, regardless of reason, that they have. So divide the two, as if they were not simply members of the same class of substance as EtOH and somehow both different, and that others who prefer intoxicants of any other nature than caffeine and nicotine to [ethyl] alcohol are somehow not only wreaking a wrongdoing upon others simply by ingesting whatever else they prefer to ingest, but are, its implied or said, depending on who is speaking, that said people are not even people worthy of respect as a human being)
I don't mean people who go out and get high and then let their already-present inner bastard slip its leash and go out to town and then to town on somebody, degenerates whos use is incidental and
who would be complete tossbags stone cold sober all the same, or who are due to being wrongly labelled criminals for their possession, manufacture, use , supply or combination of the above, are not able to maintain stable supplies at a fair price and of good purity, without all kinds of crap being bashed up with it, if its made criminal then only 'criminals' would have XYZ. This leads to economic pressure
such as forces those who have become addicted to a drug to feel desperate and trapped, especially in non-progressive, backwards countries like the US (on a federal level I mean, I'm glad to see how many states are now decriminalizing weed. Its not enough, to decriminalize, full, total legalization and pardoning, without fail, of each and every single 'offender' languishing inside for drug 'crimes', as long as the person has not committed any real crimes as well, like robbery, violent offending, thuggery in general, fraud or done something under the influence, but for those who simply comitted the 'crime' of being caught, possession, manufacture, supply and use, be that having a joint end, blazed right down to the roach, a single blotter of acid, or pain pill, once in their life, or be it someone whos cooked on kilo scales, or even hundreds of kilos. As long as they simply provide, and force nobody to take anything, of any sort, that they do not consent, knowingly, to taking.
Why should the two be different. I even hear weed smokers saying that they want full legalization, sales in the shops like one would purchase tobacco, etc. then go and say 'oh no, but weed is fine, the people who enjoy heroin, or PCP, or MDMA/MDA, coke, etc. those should remain illegal and those people involved with them deserve to feel the full weight of the 'law'
When precisely the same person moments before may have been speaking about how their drug of choice, their ganj should be legal because for it not to be, for the governmental arms involved in administering 'justice' to go round throwing their weight around, basically threatening, with menaces, to steal from, judge, threaten and assault them because of what they choose to put in their own body
is an affront to fundamental rights, namely sovereignty over their own flesh and mind. But are then prepared to support the denial of the very thing they claim FOR THEMSELVES, and for THEIR drug, for other people who choose differently. That to me is the very height of mealy-mouthed, spineless, base hypocrisy, and something I find repugnant. So its all very well for the weed smoker to want their
freedom, and choices respected, weather they make a right or a wrong choice in terms of doing or avoiding doing harm to oneself (the important bit being having the freedom to MAKE those choices, and not have them chosen for them by armed goons at the end of a gun barrel). But not for someone who likes a wee bit of skag, or who likes to drop some MD while they go nightclubbing, or enjoy a nice K-hole or two.
My point is, that being christian or otherwise religious, no more in and of itself grants somebody some kind of moral standing, than taking intoxicants, whatever kind they are, in and of itself, makes somebody a bad person, or immoral. Neither make a person moral, nor do either render somebody a wrongdoer.
Actually its largely those countries expressing large populations of adherents to the three abrahamic religions, xtianity, mammonism and terrorism, that treat drug use, inc. alcohol in the case of
those nonsecular countries with a lot of adherents to the terrorist religion, as some form of so called crime. In most cultures around the world, in fact nearly every indigenous native population (by 'native' I mean 'tribespeople') uses at least one form of intoxicant in their religious or spiritual/magickal practice, not to do so is exceedingly uncommon. One of the VERY few cultures I am aware of that don't make use of some sort of intoxicating plant or animal, or fungus, is the inuit/eskimo, because they had little access to the means due to those cultures living isolated and in climate conditions which don't support those organisms which otherwise would furnish the intoxicants themselves , I bet if they HAD the plants available, or the animals, mushrooms etc. then those cultures would have evolved a use of that nature. Almost all other cultures throughout history that we are aware of have had something. The peoples around the amazon river system have the likes of ayahuasca, native traditional snuffs
made from Anadenanthera beans (yopo, niopo, cohoba), from Virola bark (parika, epena, and yakee), and the dow-kietl, Phyllomedusa bicolor, a kind of tree frog which gives something called 'sapo',used both ritually, and in smaller quantities to sharpen the senses and allow prediction of the paths their prey will take whilst out hunting for food. That last, unlike the others, I haven't personally tried, although physically its meant to be pretty rough.
In africa, christ, thats a right melting pot of shamanism and magical, spiritual religious practices, zulu and xhosa in particular have quite extensive repertoires of psychotropics that their shamen may use, known as 'Ulabuwu' collectively. Things like species of Helichrysum, Boophane disticha [this one isn't recommended, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, as its highly poisonous, the bulb is sometimes used as a delirient type drug of a smiliar kind of action as the nightshades, as well as as an arrow-poison. Even the pollen and flowers of the stuff are very irritating, keeping this plant growing in a confined space is not a very good idea, if one intends to enter that space without protection; needless to say, taking it internally isn't smart at all.], theres the african dreaming herbs like Silene capensis, another I forget the name of that produces the large seeds sometimes used for carvings, and known as vegetable ivory, this is smoked and I think snorted in powder form, as another dream-inducing Ulabuwu, and
still others, such as the ulabuwu uvua-omhlope, Synaptolepis kirkenii....
And of course the widespread use of psilocybin mushrooms wherever they can be found, such as the maya and aztec people, made extensive ritual use of them, as well as several species of morning glory
the seeds of which are infected, or in symbiosis with, an obligate intracellular symbiont of an endophyte fungus, endophytes being fungi that grow within host plants, and are not parasites as such, or not wholly, but which give and take really. The endophyte in morning glories, as well as the hawiian baby woodrose (NOT the same as hawiian woodrose, I mean, Argyria nervosa here) and in the aztec visionary
seeds known as ololiuqui, Rivea (syn.Turbinia) corymbosa, all produce lysergic acid amides like ergine, having effects quite similar to LSD, save for that the experience doesn't have that electrically charged, stimulant zingy-ness, but rather is a relaxant and sedative almost hypnotic as well as its psychedelic effects. And yeah, believe it or not, the morning glory seeds sold in garden centers carry lysergamide-producing endophyte fungi (heh. Heavenly blues, flying saucers, with names like that, is it any wonder!) and are perfectly active, I've tried it a couple of times and it worked just fine. And the aztec especially
also, like the native american type of indian, had peyote cactus, and a rather charming, although very strange a herb indeed, that they called pilpiltzintzintli, in the nahuatl language, or shining little prince, Salvia divinorum, the diviner's sage. This produces a very unusual psychedelic, that acts neither on the usual serotonin 5HT2a receptor as LSD, mushrooms etc do, nor on glutamate NMDA receptors as an antagonist, like ketamine and PCP, nor even on GABA receptors like the oddball compound muscimol that gives fly agaric mushrooms (Amanita muscaria) their unique properties, but as a potent, and very selective kappa-opioid receptor agonist. Its usually chewed in native use, although western users are more commonly doing so by smoking either dried leaf, or extracts of it, calibrated to a certain level of enhancement over baseline dried leaf, such as 5x, 10, 20, 25x etc., and the plant itself, a relative of the sage we know as a spice and garden plants, believe it or not, pretty much owes its continual existence to the hand of mankind. For it produces no seed, save only very rarely indeed, and even then its almost always sterile, being useful though of course, the locals started taking cuttings and planting them, propagating it that way, such that there are but a handful of genetic races, as the plants, being sterile, are clones. The effect being when smoked at least, in the form of extract, quite astonishing, both in the rapidity of onset, and intensity of the sudden rocketing up from baseline to maximal effect, highly visual, but strangest of all are the effects upon propioception, and bodily selfimage, as in 'the homunculus', making arms feel like they are switched round for instance, left arm attached to right side of body, and the inverse, was one that happened to me before through S.divinorum, feeling like one has been sliced like bread, not by a blade or in terms of injury, but rather, that my bodily form, took the shape of a human body, divided as if into the frames of a video, and each slice then instead of being presented linearly like a video, as if those frames were slotted one behind the other, like the slices of a loaf, with movement causing ripples through the frames, and proprioceptive body map as if from a stone cast into a pool of water. Weird, weird, weird stuff. Short lived, intense, and at times really quite profound and completely immersive whilst under the influence of the herb. Chewing leaves in a quid
is slower, longer, but less intense, and lends itself well to meditative practice whilst doing so, it takes a lot more effort to get to work, but at the same time whilst the effect is not so strong as smoking
even raw dry leaf, let alone extracts that doesn't mean its any less profound at times/of lesser value.
I could easily provide many more examples, hundreds certainly, possibly thousands, of such plants, and occasionally, animals, and cultures using them ritually or societally, or like the polynesian Kava , from a species of pepper plants root, or khat, chewed in yemen, somalia and thereabouts socially, as it contains cathinone, beta-ketoamphetamine, related to the stimulant methcathinone, the N-methylated derivative of cathinone, which is produced synthetically by oxidizing pseudoephedrine or ephedrine and like cathinone/khat, and meth, a stimulant. Got to try chewing some myself once, a few years back, noticed some, asked for it, and was then served with a bundle of fleshy twigs and shoots, with a few leaves here and there, wrapped up in what I think, was a banana leaf, although I'm not sure
not the leaf of the khat plant certainly for they are not large. Coincidentally I just found a little tiny packet of Catha edulis seed. I'm not sure how long khat seeds remain viable, and they are a bit old,
but, I think they should be given the chance to grow at least. Would be a nice plant to have as a houseplant, and as a garden hedgerow too. Not the kind of thing that in its ethnic use really results
in abuse, for two reasons, despite the fact its packed with an amphetamine type stimulant. One being of course, that its slowly absorbed through the oral mucosa on chewing and holding the quid
between teeth and cheek, and as such does not cause the 'rush' that amphetamine/meth users seek in smoking, snorting or shooting speed, and the other factor, which IMO is more important with regards to religious, and ritual use of intoxicating agents and the lack of addiction and misanthropic activities on the part of the user, is cultural or societal/cultural, khat for instance, or the balinese, thai and similar places native opioid bearing tree, kratom, popular throughout the malaysian area, but despite being an opioid, and as such addictive if misused, its not, usually there, and people don't all end up as rampant junkies, or thugs, theres a lot of cultural background and history associated with its use, although thailand is attempting to stamp on it, and on its users :(
(tried kratom too, many times, and many different varieties. Found it quite pleasant, and unusually, at least some strains produce a delta-opioid receptor agonist, DOR agonism appearing to be stimulatory
in general nature, although some, but not all, synthetic DOR agonists at least are convulsants in too great a quantity. No such thing I've noticed about kratom though, shares the quirky stimulating nature
with opium poppy pod tea in some respects although the mechanism is different (in poppies, its from thebaine, a non-opioid minor alkaloid that works like strychnine does. Large amounts are toxic, a convulsant poison like an overdose of strychnine in overdose, but which when just a little is taken, in the form of pod tea, or extracts, or opium itself, the perky nature of it is most refreshing.
So that all goes to show, that religion and drug use can and indeed USUALLY are, if used in the religious or societal, or cultural contexts. Repressive 'laws' serve no man aught but misery, ill, pain and strife, and the only ones who benefit are governments profiting through the prison service, and esp. in the US the unforgivable, abhorrent practice of allowing private prisons run on a for profit basis, and actually forming contracts for the government agreeing to provide a certain number of prisoners annually. Provides a strong vested interest and incentive for the govt to keep drugs 'illegal' and persecute use wherever they can get away with it, as well as sick shit like asset-stripping of drug 'crime' suspect's property and homes, and finances by asserting they are the proceeds of a crime, and then seizing the assets. Thus depriving the person of the means to hire a lawyer, because they just had their money stolen, and so have vastly reduced chance of being able to fight it in court and win, because the onus
is being placed on their heads, to prove the assets are NOT the proceeds of crime, rather than upon the justice system having to prove that they are.
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I found a religion on my doorstep the other day. I think it was Buddhism.
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I found a religion on my doorstep the other day. I think it was Buddhism.
The Buddhists are going door to door now? :lol1:
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I found a religion on my doorstep the other day. I think it was Buddhism.
The Buddhists are going door to door now? :lol1:
My best mate is Buddhist.
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I found a religion on my doorstep the other day. I think it was Buddhism.
The Buddhists are going door to door now? :lol1:
No, not the believers, just the religion. :P
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I found a religion on my doorstep the other day. I think it was Buddhism.
The Buddhists are going door to door now? :lol1:
My best mate is Buddhist.
Has he been placing literature at Odeon's doorstep? :zoinks:
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I found a religion on my doorstep the other day. I think it was Buddhism.
The Buddhists are going door to door now? :lol1:
My best mate is Buddhist.
Has he been placing literature at Odeon's doorstep? :zoinks:
That's a really long way to go.
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I found a religion on my doorstep the other day. I think it was Buddhism.
The Buddhists are going door to door now? :lol1:
No, not the believers, just the religion. :P
Question is, is a Buddhist a believer? There is no deity in Buddhism.
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I found a religion on my doorstep the other day. I think it was Buddhism.
The Buddhists are going door to door now? :lol1:
No, not the believers, just the religion. :P
Question is, is a Buddhist a believer? There is no deity in Buddhism.
It's a belief system, isn't it? You don't necessarily have to believe in a deity; there are plenty of lifestyle choices and practices defined by the system.
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I found a religion on my doorstep the other day. I think it was Buddhism.
The Buddhists are going door to door now? :lol1:
No, not the believers, just the religion. :P
Question is, is a Buddhist a believer? There is no deity in Buddhism.
It's a belief system, isn't it? You don't necessarily have to believe in a deity; there are plenty of lifestyle choices and practices defined by the system.
True, and in that a lot can be called a religion, repeating the words and customs of others before you.
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Speaking of which, I walked past the "church" of scientology's London offices the other day. So yes.
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Speaking of which, I walked past the "church" of scientology's London offices the other day. So yes.
Those are scary.
Did you get an invitation for an in depth interview?
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Speaking of which, I walked past the "church" of scientology's London offices the other day. So yes.
Those are scary.
Did you get an invitation for an in depth interview?
No, thankfully.
I did one of those in the 80s, though, out of curiosity. They were a lot more active then.
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Speaking of which, I walked past the "church" of scientology's London offices the other day. So yes.
Those are scary.
Did you get an invitation for an in depth interview?
No, thankfully.
I did one of those in the 80s, though, out of curiosity. They were a lot more active then.
Did you hand them your address?
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Speaking of which, I walked past the "church" of scientology's London offices the other day. So yes.
Those are scary.
Did you get an invitation for an in depth interview?
No, thankfully.
I did one of those in the 80s, though, out of curiosity. They were a lot more active then.
Did you hand them your address?
Oh no. I did the four-page form, listened patiently to the guy explaining what I should do, and then left.
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Speaking of which, I walked past the "church" of scientology's London offices the other day. So yes.
Those are scary.
Did you get an invitation for an in depth interview?
No, thankfully.
I did one of those in the 80s, though, out of curiosity. They were a lot more active then.
Did you hand them your address?
Oh no. I did the four-page form, listened patiently to the guy explaining what I should do, and then left.
I did the same thing in Santa Barbara in the early 90's.
They had a very active recruitment center right on State Street.
They tend to go after upper middle-class and rich people who can actually afford membership in their cult, that's why they were there.
Oh, one more thing, I was tripping on mushrooms when I took the test. :mushie: :green:
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I'm sure they had lots of advice to offer. :laugh:
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If I find it, is there a reward?
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Do you know who the original owner is?
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I was just going to leave it at the customer service desk with my phone number.
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Scientology will call you back to ask for your address.
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I'm sure they had lots of advice to offer. :laugh:
Even fucked up on mushrooms, I could still think circles around those brainwashed morons.
So if you know someone who is joining a cult, tell them to pick up a drug habbit instead. :autism:
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It's more or less the same thing.
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Speaking of which, I walked past the "church" of scientology's London offices the other day. So yes.
Did the hair stand up on the back of your neck? :tinfoil:
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Even fucked up on mushrooms, I could still think circles around those brainwashed morons.
So if you know someone who is joining a cult, tell them to pick up a drug habbit instead. :autism:
What's a "habbit" ? :trollface:
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A kleptomaniac bunny.
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A kleptomaniac bunny.
He steals it 'cause he's just gotta habbit. (http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/animals/white-rabbit-31.gif)
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Speaking of which, I walked past the "church" of scientology's London offices the other day. So yes.
Did the hair stand up on the back of your neck? :tinfoil:
Yes. Still, I briefly considered going in to ask for Tom.
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Speaking of which, I walked past the "church" of scientology's London offices the other day. So yes.
Did the hair stand up on the back of your neck? :tinfoil:
Yes. Still, I briefly considered going in to ask for Tom.
You have crusading urges?
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Speaking of which, I walked past the "church" of scientology's London offices the other day. So yes.
Did the hair stand up on the back of your neck? :tinfoil:
Yes. Still, I briefly considered going in to ask for Tom.
You have crusading urges?
Sometimes. But I'd rather call it trolling urges.
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:zoinks:
(http://www.guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/jesus_seat.jpg)
I really ought to try this.
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That could backfire. :laugh:
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That could backfire. :laugh:
Yeah, becuase it's Northern Ireland someone might actually want to sit down and talk to me about Jesus. :headhurts:
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I have to admit to ::) or :laugh: when I hear people publicly proclaim they "found" God....I didn't know God was lost or could get lost! :P
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I have to admit to ::) or :laugh: when I hear people publicly proclaim they "found" God....I didn't know God was lost or could get lost! :P
He didn't get lost, he was just playing hide and seek. :nerdy:
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I have to admit to ::) or :laugh: when I hear people publicly proclaim they "found" God....I didn't know God was lost or could get lost! :P
He didn't get lost, he was just playing hide and seek. :nerdy:
Ah, that explains it!