INTENSITY²
Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: skyblue1 on March 30, 2013, 05:17:29 PM
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A real life Troll...........
U.S. Defense officials: North Korean threats are 'bellicose rhetoric'
Seoul, South Korea (CNN) -- North Korea's threatening rhetoric has reached a fever pitch, but the Pentagon and the South Korean government have said it's nothing new.
"We have no indications at this point that it's anything more than warmongering rhetoric," a senior Washington Defense official said late Friday.
The official was not authorized to speak to the media and asked not to be named.
State media: North Korea in 'state of war' with South
The National Security Council, which advises the U.S. president on matters of war, struck a similar cord. Washington finds North Korea's statements "unconstructive," and it does take the threats seriously.
But, we would also note that North Korea has a long history of bellicose rhetoric and threats, and today's announcement follows that familiar pattern," said Caitlin Hayden, a spokeswoman for the security council.
The United States will continue to update its capabilities against any military threat from the North, which includes plans to deploy missile defense systems.
No, North Korea can't hit Hawaii
North Korea's hot rhetoric
Pyongyang's propaganda machine flung new insults at the United States on Saturday.
It compared the U.S. mainland with a "boiled pumpkin," unable to endure an attack from a foreign foe, the state-run Korean Central News Agency reported.
North Korea, on the other hand, could sustain an offensive from the outside, the report said. It claimed the government had built shelters around the country "against any enemy nuclear and chemical weapons attack."
The rhetoric and military show of force by the North have heated up in the face of annual joint military exercise between South Korean and U.S. forces called Foal Eagle.
The routine maneuvers are carried out in accordance with the armistice that put an end to armed hostilities in 1953.
There was no peace treaty to officially end the war.
North Korea's threat: Five things to know
The North Korean government declared the armistice invalid on March 11, 10 days after Foal Eagle began. It is something Pyongyang has done before during heightened tensions.
In an added slap, North Korea has declared that it had entered a "state of war" with neighboring South Korea, according to a report Saturday from the state-run Korean Central News Agency.
"The condition, which was neither war nor peace, has ended," North Korea's government said in a special statement carried by KCNA.
Saturday's reports also asserted any conflict "will not be limited to a local war, but develop into an all-out war, a nuclear war."
The statements made the prospect of war contingent upon "a military provocation ... against the DPRK" in sensitive areas on the border between North and South.
Analysis: Just what is Kim Jong Un up to?
The South: It's not new
South Korea has not treated its neighbor's latest threat as imminent danger.
Seoul noted scores of its personnel had entered the Kaesong Industrial Complex -- a joint economic cooperation zone between the two Koreas situated on the North's side of the border -- on Saturday morning. Hundreds more were set to join them later in the day, seeming to suggest both sides were going about business as usual.
South officials said that North threats to shut down the complex are part of the North's "measures of putting military alert to highest level," but the South was taking the North's words "seriously," the South Korean Unification Ministry Press Office said.
The threats aren't "beneficial" to the development of the economic zone, the South ministry said. Currently, 310 people work in the industrial complex, the ministry said.
"Our government takes the situation seriously and is prioritizing the safety of our people in Kaesong industrial complex. Our position to maintain stability of Kaesong Industrial Complex remains unchanged," the press office said.
The South hasn't detected, however, any "irregular trend" in the zone, the ministry said.
On Saturday, North Korea attacked that sense of normalcy, questioning the future of the cooperation.
"The entry into the Kaesong Industrial Zone by the south side's personnel has been put in jeopardy," KCNA reported.
The communist government accused Seoul of insulting its dignity with assertions that North Korea would not end the cooperation, because it would be too afraid of losing the revenue it brings.
Pyongyang's declaration it was readying its missiles also did not seem to worry officials in the South.
"The announcement made by North Korea is not a new threat, but part of follow-up measures after North Korea's supreme command's statement that it will enter the highest military alert" on Tuesday, South Korea's Unification Ministry said ..............
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/30/world/asia/north-korea-us-threats/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/30/world/asia/north-korea-us-threats/index.html)
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It's gonna be interesting to see.
This whole thing is like a mix of new events and "same old"
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The 'cry wolf' effect applied to this topic is a bit disturbing.
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I like vicodin and anal fisting.
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The 'cry wolf' effect applied to this topic is a bit disturbing.
In what way?
It's not like it's commonplace for neighboring countries to threaten nuclear war left and right, so this shouldn't be taken lightly, even if it has turned into a sortof tragicomical tradition.
The other thing I notice - especially with Americans - is that they tend to check how much of a danger NK poses to America, calculate that the danger is almost non-existent, and then go "relax everyone, they are of no danger to anybody important!" leaving South Korea with a frustrated-face.
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I like vicodin and anal fisting.
Different strokes for different folks
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In what way?
Oh, certainly it's all under control, and if not, then still out of mine. It was just odd thinking of this particular situation in those terms. Weird moment.
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In what way?
Oh, certainly it's all under control, and if not, then still out of mine. It was just odd thinking of this particular situation in those terms. Weird moment.
It is a "live situation", that little "PR stunt" NK did 3 years ago left around 10 dead + 50 wounded, and that was "pure theatrics". It's not a matter of nukes or armageddon, but just the clash of two countries that consist of just people. Like any country, in any war.
People are too damn flippant about wars :I
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Agreed.
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The 'cry wolf' effect applied to this topic is a bit disturbing.
In what way?
It's not like it's commonplace for neighboring countries to threaten nuclear war left and right, so this shouldn't be taken lightly, even if it has turned into a sortof tragicomical tradition.
The other thing I notice - especially with Americans - is that they tend to check how much of a danger NK poses to America, calculate that the danger is almost non-existent, and then go "relax everyone, they are of no danger to anybody important!" leaving South Korea with a frustrated-face.
Oh yeah? Who said that Zeg?
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The 'cry wolf' effect applied to this topic is a bit disturbing.
In what way?
It's not like it's commonplace for neighboring countries to threaten nuclear war left and right, so this shouldn't be taken lightly, even if it has turned into a sortof tragicomical tradition.
The other thing I notice - especially with Americans - is that they tend to check how much of a danger NK poses to America, calculate that the danger is almost non-existent, and then go "relax everyone, they are of no danger to anybody important!" leaving South Korea with a frustrated-face.
Oh yeah? Who said that Zeg?
People. People said it.
I exaggerated the exact expression for a condensing effect, since people said a whole bunch of different things, it would take me hours to make an exact list of all the variations, especially if you want to include exact syntax from each individual statement.
But in all, from everyone commenting NK that I have seen, more than half commented on the nuclear capacity. The bulk of this half commented on wether or not it would be able to reach USA, and kept the debate at that. Several more dismissed all danger presented by NK, on the basis that it could not realistically harm the USA.
You know perfectly well what I mean.
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The 'cry wolf' effect applied to this topic is a bit disturbing.
In what way?
It's not like it's commonplace for neighboring countries to threaten nuclear war left and right, so this shouldn't be taken lightly, even if it has turned into a sortof tragicomical tradition.
The other thing I notice - especially with Americans - is that they tend to check how much of a danger NK poses to America, calculate that the danger is almost non-existent, and then go "relax everyone, they are of no danger to anybody important!" leaving South Korea with a frustrated-face.
Oh yeah? Who said that Zeg?
People. People said it.
I exaggerated the exact expression for a condensing effect, since people said a whole bunch of different things, it would take me hours to make an exact list of all the variations, especially if you want to include exact syntax from each individual statement.
But in all, from everyone commenting NK that I have seen, more than half commented on the nuclear capacity. The bulk of this half commented on wether or not it would be able to reach USA, and kept the debate at that. Several more dismissed all danger presented by NK, on the basis that it could not realistically harm the USA.
You know perfectly well what I mean.
No I don't. Given your inexact use of language it is not that difficult for me to require clarification about what you do mean.
You either can't find, or are to lazy to find, any references of anyone in a position that matters with respect to responding to DPRK military aggression in the US Govt saying any such thing. If you think Obama, the DOD and the CIA are going to give serious consideration about what Joe at the corner gas station or Phil on Facebook thinks about how to respond to DPRK nuclear aggression you are badly mistaken.
For people in the US whether or not that fat POS can hit Hawaii, Alaska or California is a concern and it is a valid concern. Furthermore there are over 28,000 US military members stationed in ROK that in the event of a combined nuclear and conventional strike stand to die in short order. In the event of that happening a US response would happen and China and Russia would each have a high probability of weighing in.
Don't let any of those facts fuck up your righteous indignation Zeg.
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Dude...
Please, for the love of god, READ my reply to you this time:
Stop putting your own ideas of what I think into my head, for then to fight them.
1. I never thought "peace on earth" is a viable, realistic prospect (responding to you on multiple previous occasions, where you vanished after deciding to give me opinions I don't have)
2. I like guns (responding to you on multiple previous occasions, where you vanished after deciding to give me opinions I don't have)
3. I never said, thought, claimed, hinted or pretended OFFICIAL CHANNELS had these opinions. I said PEOPLE. Even STUPID PEOPLE. EXPECIALLY stupid people. INTERNET PEOPLE. I am FULLY aware that Gvt officials know what they need to know about this situation...
4. I KNOW what North Korea can do with its arsenal. I AM NOT STUPID PEOPLE.
Now, Please, Please, promise me: Next time you see me making a statement about something, respond ONLY to THAT statement, and NOT statements you IMAGINE that I am LIKELY to make.
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TLDR version, Casanova: Stop giving me your stock-anti-democrat type reply. I am not American. I couldn't vote "Democrats" even if I wanted to, and I don't want to. We don't have Obama in Norway.
Respond to what I say.
Aaand you missed out on this reply, like always, and next time you're just gonna do the same thing again -.-
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Bullshit Zeg. This post below mine is exactly what I am responded to. I can cherry pick least common denominator stupidity from anywhere to justify any position. But I don't rely on Alex Jones or Giorgio Tsoukalas information to assess world history or events. While there are plenty of stupid people to go around and the people here in the US who bother paying attention to world affairs are well aware of the potential for trouble from DPRK. Your penchant for armchair activism doesn't make you any smarter than they are.
If the DPRK attacks the ROK the US will be in it. That will almost certainly bring PRC into it and very likely Russia. A domino effect could bring India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Pakistan into the mix fairly easily if shit goes really wrong after that. That is not too fucking hard to figure out.
So I make points and vanish huh Zeg? I don't bother sticking with every thread to the bitter end, particularly where I don't see a point in doing so. With this assault weapons crap for example I have put my efforts into influencing real political action here in the US rather than trying to convert Soph, odeon or others I don't feel like trying to convert. If there is ever anything you believe I have said that seriously misrepresents your position than call me out on it and we will discuss it further - hopefully without a bunch of fucking busybodies inserting themselves.
The 'cry wolf' effect applied to this topic is a bit disturbing.
In what way?
It's not like it's commonplace for neighboring countries to threaten nuclear war left and right, so this shouldn't be taken lightly, even if it has turned into a sortof tragicomical tradition.
The other thing I notice - especially with Americans - is that they tend to check how much of a danger NK poses to America, calculate that the danger is almost non-existent, and then go "relax everyone, they are of no danger to anybody important!" leaving South Korea with a frustrated-face.
TLDR version, Casanova: Stop giving me your stock-anti-democrat type reply. I am not American. I couldn't vote "Democrats" even if I wanted to, and I don't want to. We don't have Obama in Norway.
Respond to what I say.
Aaand you missed out on this reply, like always, and next time you're just gonna do the same thing again -.-
I did respond to what you said. You just don't like the response. Go take a few tokes, draw a dinosaur and get back to me. :thumbup:
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It's almost like you are deliberately trolling me :think:
Don't you realize that I can't discuss with you, if you keep giving me opinions and statements I never made.
It's only gonna be a neverending
You: Argument
Me: I never said that
You: Argument
Me: I never said that
You: Argument
Me: I never said that
Untill you actually address what I say, and not what I would say if I fit your ideas of hipsters, hippies, activists, Obama-voters, etc.
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It's almost like you are deliberately trolling me :think:
Don't you realize that I can't discuss with you, if you keep giving me opinions and statements I never made.
It's only gonna be a neverending
You: Argument
Me: I never said that
You: Argument
Me: I never said that
You: Argument
Me: I never said that
Untill you actually address what I say, and not what I would say if I fit your ideas of hipsters, hippies, activists, Obama-voters, etc.
Bullshit. I called on you to provide references to prove your position, whereupon you admitted exaggerating to make a point then you claimed that I know perfectly well what you mean instead of just saying what you meant and backing it up the first time around.
People. People said it.
I exaggerated the exact expression for a condensing effect, since people said a whole bunch of different things, it would take me hours to make an exact list of all the variations, especially if you want to include exact syntax from each individual statement.
But in all, from everyone commenting NK that I have seen, more than half commented on the nuclear capacity. The bulk of this half commented on wether or not it would be able to reach USA, and kept the debate at that. Several more dismissed all danger presented by NK, on the basis that it could not realistically harm the USA.
You know perfectly well what I mean.
And what does exaggerate mean? :dunno:
thesaurus.com/browse/exaggeration (http://thesaurus.com/browse/exaggeration)
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You are nitpicking for the sake of argument, instead of seeing what it is I am trying to convey. I don't know if you do this on purpose, or just a need to nitpick. I nitpick as well.
What irks me however, is that you are quick to launch yourself on pre-imagined perceptions.
How often do I feel a need to MENTION your hillbilly gun toting shit kicking rednecky cowboyness?
Never?
Well, don't think it's because I consider you undeserving of such an epithet, but because it isn't relevant to what is being discussed there and then.
I smoke weed.
How does that diminish my capacity to know what North Korea can or cannot do? RETHORICAL QUESTION.
All I said is that people (yes, the myriads out there, including the stupid ones) tend to blow up the global-danger factor of North Korea.
While I can see that NK has the capacity for a lot of havoc, technically, a lot of countries have this capacity. *cough*USA*cough*
The MAIN issue with the North Korea vs South Korea war is: North and South Korea - not Alaska. It is the MILLIONS of Korean civilians, not the thousands of stationed American soldiers.
This does not mean I am unaware of the Americans stationed there.
Right?
With me so far?
This isn't even a matter to debate endlessly so... if you have something VITAL to add to this, be my guest...
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You are nitpicking for the sake of argument, instead of seeing what it is I am trying to convey. I don't know if you do this on purpose, or just a need to nitpick. I nitpick as well.
What irks me however, is that you are quick to launch yourself on pre-imagined perceptions.
No actually I was asking you to back up your position.
How often do I feel a need to MENTION your hillbilly gun toting shit kicking rednecky cowboyness?
Never?
Well, don't think it's because I consider you undeserving of such an epithet, but because it isn't relevant to what is being discussed there and then.
:lol1:
I smoke weed.
How does that diminish my capacity to know what North Korea can or cannot do? RETHORICAL QUESTION.
Well since you are apparently operating at 100% I suppose I need explain to you that that part of the response was tit for tat since you presumed to know that I would never see your reply and put that little TL;DR sarcasm in there.
All I said is that people (yes, the myriads out there, including the stupid ones) tend to blow up the global-danger factor of North Korea.
While I can see that NK has the capacity for a lot of havoc, technically, a lot of countries have this capacity. *cough*USA*cough*
The MAIN issue with the North Korea vs South Korea war is: North and South Korea - not Alaska. It is the MILLIONS of Korean civilians, not the thousands of stationed American soldiers.
This does not mean I am unaware of the Americans stationed there.
Right?
With me so far?
This isn't even a matter to debate endlessly so... if you have something VITAL to add to this, be my guest...
That is apparently your main issue. That does not necessarily make it everyone's main issue now does it Mr Armchair Activist? :tard:
Would you presume to tell Americans that they should not be concerned about the possibility of Korean nukes hitting Alaska, Hawaii or California? Or the potential loss of 28,000 citizens in short order followed by a nuclear showdown with the PRC that could lead to nuclear war?
Do you believe the PRCs main concern is the fate of the two Koreas if things should come to that? How about the Russian Federation? Would you want to tell them what their main concern will be in this situation?
If millions of Koreans die there is a good likelihood that millions of others will die too. It is natural that people will think of their own casualties first in a situation like that you preachy twat.
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PRC support for North Korean military action is extremely unlikely. This has been less known for a few years, and widely known for much shorter ammount of time.
PRC is interested in earning money, that we have, and that they want from us. Good old capitalism (joke intended). China needs us to stay healthy consumers, and they can't do that if everyone gets nuked, and they're not gonna risk that for fattie-kim-un. They simply aren't.
So it is safe enough to remove PRC from this equation.
NK is most likely gonna focus its military effort on SK rather than American pacific posessions, since SK is their main priority. The "US Imperialist" rethoric they're so fond of is mostly just theatre, to boost morale among the population.
I agree NK is a danger. But I must insist that NK is mainly a danger to its immediate surroundings, not the whole world, and not to US mainland. If a nuclear missile launched from NK even hits Hawaii, I'm gonna be more surprised at the American failure to intercept it, than anything else.
And any conventional attack on American posessions in the Pacific, as a preemptive measure, so to invade SK with more ease... I mean, come on, you might just as well worry that Taliban will invade your mainland.
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First off you did not address the points I just made. It does go directly to your use of assumptions and inexact language.
PRC support for North Korean military action is extremely unlikely. This has been less known for a few years, and widely known for much shorter ammount of time.
PRC is interested in earning money, that we have, and that they want from us. Good old capitalism (joke intended). China needs us to stay healthy consumers, and they can't do that if everyone gets nuked, and they're not gonna risk that for fattie-kim-un. They simply aren't.
So it is safe enough to remove PRC from this equation.
Not if DPRK uses nukes and provokes a response in kind. I don't consider that to be a very likely at this time but assuming they won't would be a real shitty idea.
NK is most likely gonna focus its military effort on SK rather than American pacific posessions, since SK is their main priority. The "US Imperialist" rethoric they're so fond of is mostly just theatre, to boost morale among the population.
Unless the USA Out contigent in ROK prevails than an attack on ROK is going to bring the USA and other UN allies in. There are people over here who want to bring those troops home but they are not close to prevailing.
I agree NK is a danger. But I must insist that NK is mainly a danger to its immediate surroundings, not the whole world, and not to US mainland. If a nuclear missile launched from NK even hits Hawaii, I'm gonna be more surprised at the American failure to intercept it, than anything else.
And any conventional attack on American posessions in the Pacific, as a preemptive measure, so to invade SK with more ease... I mean, come on, you might just as well worry that Taliban will invade your mainland.
I don't have much faith that their missiles are very good either but they have made the threats and those threats need to be investigated. ROK has about a 3:1 advantage population wise and a tough military. Therefore barring the use of nukes and possible PRC support I don't see a rational (http://rational) reason that Kim Jong Un would base a decision to invade on and I don't see why PRC would encourage such action. People cannot always be counted on to be rational though and I do believe that PRC likes to keep their rabid attack dog handy for a bellicose show.