INTENSITY²
Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: Pig on January 29, 2012, 11:18:35 PM
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We've all experienced failure, I can declare with some confidence. But what happens when a person fails at their goals perpetually? Should they really be labeled a "failure"?
Do you think the people themselves are to blame if they fail? Should they be pitied or scorned?
I'd like to read other peoples' stories about both their successes and failures in life, and how it affected their world-views. If you've ever worked hard to achieve a goal, let us know if it worked out or not.
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This is one subject I'd like to input on, but it will require a bit of deep thinking to minimize potential misunderstandings with my post.
(Bad mov QV, now they're expecting a post of absolute brilliance and enlightenment.
Solution? Get them drunk first. They'll either think it was great or won't remember it.)
Drinks are on me.
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This is one subject I'd like to input on, but it will require a bit of deep thinking to minimize potential misunderstandings with my post.
(Bad mov QV, now they're expecting a post of absolute brilliance and enlightenment.
Solution? Get them drunk first. They'll either think it was great or won't remember it.)
Drinks are on me.
No problem, take your time. :)
I could add a story myself, but it's not fun to go over the details of one's personal failings.
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I think failing is just human. Don't beat yourself up over it, not unless you keep making the same mistakes. I
I am usually pretty good at evaluating the mess and trying again. However, if i feel i am being laughed at or over scrutinised in some way i tend to just go and crawl under a rock. Failure is no good for your confidence.
With that in mind i try and ignore other peoples fails, and not point them out too much in a Capt. Obvious way. The World is not so forgiving.
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I think failing is just human. Don't beat yourself up over it, not unless you keep making the same mistakes.
I think this is my main point. What if you DO keep making the same mistakes. Then what?
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I think failing is just human. Don't beat yourself up over it, not unless you keep making the same mistakes.
I think this is my main point. What if you DO keep making the same mistakes. Then what?
Try to sort out why you do that. What keeps you taking similar steps again and again. Try to understand the pattern. With or without help. And then try to find a way to avoid the following of the too familiar pattern the next time.
And, you won't succeed changing that overnight. Guess it is like quitting smoking. Most people who do have a pretty long preparation time (failures included) before they succeed.
Every similar failure can bring you closer to understanding the pattern you are in.
Can be annoying and depressing as hell though.
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I think failing is just human. Don't beat yourself up over it, not unless you keep making the same mistakes.
I think this is my main point. What if you DO keep making the same mistakes. Then what?
Stop it!
Nah i know it's easier said. What types of mistakes do you refer? There are many to be made. Are we talking you keep putting diesel in your petrol car, or are we talking more personal?
Personal stuff is always cloudy i think. You need to look back at it, to see where you went wrong.
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I think failing is just human. Don't beat yourself up over it, not unless you keep making the same mistakes.
I think this is my main point. What if you DO keep making the same mistakes. Then what?
Stop it!
Nah i know it's easier said. What types of mistakes do you refer? There are many to be made. Are we talking you keep putting diesel in your petrol car, or are we talking more personal?
Personal stuff is always cloudy i think. You need to look back at it, to see where you went wrong.
Compulsion drives us to keep trying at some things no matter how much we fail. It can be anything: trying to become rich, trying to become beautiful, trying to become smarter, trying to stay sober, etc. But human beings cannot always achieve their goals through hard work and dedication. So, what are we to do when our failure becomes perpetual?
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But human beings cannot always achieve their goals through hard work and dedication. So, what are we to do when our failure becomes perpetual?
I reject the core premise of your argument.
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But human beings cannot always achieve their goals through hard work and dedication. So, what are we to do when our failure becomes perpetual?
I reject the core premise of your argument.
Heh heh...I used to believe that hard work and dedication could achieve anything. But what of the many failures that scatter the world? Can you just tell those people they haven't tried hard enough?
Technically if you keep trying until you die you haven't "failed," you've run out of time. Realistically though at some point an endeavor must be decided a failure, even if the participant themselves will not give up. If twenty years has not brought any progress, then failure is the most apt description.
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Pig, you're confusing working hard with working smart.
A man pays you $50 to cut his front lawn. You can work hard and cut it with nail clippers or you can work smart and cut it with a lawn mower. Working hard in this case won't put food on the table.
NEVER EVER work for someone who expects you to work hard. Work for someone who expects you to work smart.
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Pig, you're confusing working hard with working smart.
A man pays you $50 to cut his front lawn. You can work hard and cut it with nail clippers or you can work smart and cut it with a lawn mower. Working hard in this case won't put food on the table.
NEVER EVER work for someone who expects you to work hard. Work for someone who expects you to work smart.
Mmmm.. Well I wanted to keep this discussion pretty open, because I like to read different perspectives on this, but that's not quite what I mean.
Here is an example of what I was thinking of:
Joseph has always dreamed of being a great pro-baseball player, from his childhood up until the present. Except now he is 35, and has never even made it to the minors. He has forgone any of the normal pleasures of life in favor of dedicating himself full-time to baseball, but the hard work has never paid off. Joseph has tried every available method to improve, but he's never passed beyond mediocre. His life has been entirely baseball focused because all he wants is to play at a professional level, but realistically that's not going to happen. He does not have any interest in coaching, reffing, or any other peripheral activities. All he wants is to play in the majors and be great.
What can he do? He can keep trying into his 70's, doing laps, practicing his swing, etc - but it won't ever pay off.
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But human beings cannot always achieve their goals through hard work and dedication. So, what are we to do when our failure becomes perpetual?
I reject the core premise of your argument.
Heh heh...I used to believe that hard work and dedication could achieve anything. But what of the many failures that scatter the world? Can you just tell those people they haven't tried hard enough?
Technically if you keep trying until you die you haven't "failed," you've run out of time. Realistically though at some point an endeavor must be decided a failure, even if the participant themselves will not give up. If twenty years has not brought any progress, then failure is the most apt description.
I disagree. I would prefer to keep trying, and die a 'trier' than be a quitter.
The more you repeat your attempt the more chance you have of getting somewhere.
It's like i might moan to my friend 'oh i wish i could win the lottery' but you know what? I don't ever play the motherfucker!
Even if the odds are slim, by increasing my attempts at something means i am not to rule out winning. Don't quit trying.
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I disagree. I would prefer to keep trying, and die a 'trier' than be a quitter.
The more you repeat your attempt the more chance you have of getting somewhere.
It's like i might moan to my friend 'oh i wish i could win the lottery' but you know what? I don't ever play the motherfucker!
Even if the odds are slim, by increasing my attempts at something means i am not to rule out winning. Don't quit trying.
Yes, I agree, some goals cannot be quit.
Still sucks to fail over and over again though.
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I honestly achieved nothing in life until last year. Success feels great. And I don't mean success as in getting rich or having a high flying career etc (altho money would be good too haha), but just achieving something big/ having soemthing to feel proud of
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Pig, you're confusing working hard with working smart.
A man pays you $50 to cut his front lawn. You can work hard and cut it with nail clippers or you can work smart and cut it with a lawn mower. Working hard in this case won't put food on the table.
NEVER EVER work for someone who expects you to work hard. Work for someone who expects you to work smart.
Mmmm.. Well I wanted to keep this discussion pretty open, because I like to read different perspectives on this, but that's not quite what I mean.
Here is an example of what I was thinking of:
Joseph has always dreamed of being a great pro-baseball player, from his childhood up until the present. Except now he is 35, and has never even made it to the minors. He has forgone any of the normal pleasures of life in favor of dedicating himself full-time to baseball, but the hard work has never paid off. Joseph has tried every available method to improve, but he's never passed beyond mediocre. His life has been entirely baseball focused because all he wants is to play at a professional level, but realistically that's not going to happen. He does not have any interest in coaching, reffing, or any other peripheral activities. All he wants is to play in the majors and be great.
What can he do? He can keep trying into his 70's, doing laps, practicing his swing, etc - but it won't ever pay off.
I think it is time for Joseph to let go of that one dream, and set a new goal.
Clinging on to a childhood dream for the rest of your life isn't always laudable.
No matter how hard kids at baseball train and try, only a few will make it to the real top. There are things like talent and such involved too, and even blatant luck.
Joseph going after joy in his baseball playing, and a more realistic goal for what he wants to be may make him a lot happier.
Will take time for him to take that step, will hurt, but, not everything can be achieved in life by everyone. Just can't.
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I think it is time for Joseph to let go of that one dream, and set a new goal.
Clinging on to a childhood dream for the rest of your life isn't always laudable.
No matter how hard kids at baseball train and try, only a few will make it to the real top. There are things like talent and such involved too, and even blatant luck.
Joseph going after joy in his baseball playing, and a more realistic goal for what he wants to be may make him a lot happier.
Will take time for him to take that step, will hurt, but, not everything can be achieved in life by everyone. Just can't.
:dunno:
If that is an available option it may be good advice. But some things cannot be let go of.
No one wants to share their stories of failure? Haven't you given your best to something, only to find your best wasn't good enough?
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Yeah, last week. But it's intensely personal and the last thing I want is people glorifying failure or really, giving it an instant's more time and attention than it deserves.
Pig, what are you looking for?
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This is the problem with telling kids they can do/be anything they want
If you're talking about things they can obviously choose, or something that's just a state of being (like tellign them it's ok if they're gay or whatever), then that's diffferent. But telling a kid that they can grow up to be anything they like, while it might be well-intentioned, it's just gonna lead to a shitload of adults who haven't grown out of their unrealistic childhood dreams. Most of us realise they're unrealistic as we grow up. But if you don;t, then the chances are you're be miserable and see yourself as a failure, because the chances are you WON'T achieve that dream of being an astronaut or an international footballer
I'm all for teaching kids to fulfill their potential etc. And I don't mean parents telling a kid that they're just as worthy as anyone else, regardless of their ethnicity or sex or class etc. But telling them they can BE anything when they grow up isnt true. For most of the things kids dream of becoming, you need natural skill/talent. And most of us don't have both the will and the talent
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But telling a kid that they can grow up to be anything they like, while it might be well-intentioned, it's just gonna lead to a shitload of adults who haven't grown out of their unrealistic childhood dreams. Most of us realise they're unrealistic as we grow up. But if you don;t, then the chances are you're be miserable and see yourself as a failure, because the chances are you WON'T achieve that dream of being an astronaut or an international footballer
This is what I wanted. Thanks Adam.
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Did no one tell Joseph he was pissing in the wind?
Poor Joseph. At least he has become successful at failing :zoinks:
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Did no one tell Joseph he was pissing in the wind?
Poor Joseph. At least he has become successful at failing :zoinks:
Yeh, I guess there is that. My own failures have shaped me into the person I am today, for better or worse.... Okay it's for worse. :hahaha:
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Try and think of areas you have success at. There must be some. Just try building on them and not spend too much time on your fails.
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But telling a kid that they can grow up to be anything they like, while it might be well-intentioned, it's just gonna lead to a shitload of adults who haven't grown out of their unrealistic childhood dreams. Most of us realise they're unrealistic as we grow up. But if you don;t, then the chances are you're be miserable and see yourself as a failure, because the chances are you WON'T achieve that dream of being an astronaut or an international footballer
This is what I wanted. Thanks Adam.
I'm here to save teh day
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I failed in school, big time. Was told to never even attempt university. I have tried courses in various things since then and have never completed one. Usually because mental illness steps in and interferes. But now I am going to university. I had to do an enabling course to get in (and nearly didn't finish that) and have since completed three years of my degree. Still have troubles with mental stuff (even had a stay in hospital during a uni break) but I start my fourth year next month. I really want to finish it. It will be the first big thing for me to complete.
Still get that whisper deep down (but what if I can't?).
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I think it is time for Joseph to let go of that one dream, and set a new goal.
Clinging on to a childhood dream for the rest of your life isn't always laudable.
No matter how hard kids at baseball train and try, only a few will make it to the real top. There are things like talent and such involved too, and even blatant luck.
Joseph going after joy in his baseball playing, and a more realistic goal for what he wants to be may make him a lot happier.
Will take time for him to take that step, will hurt, but, not everything can be achieved in life by everyone. Just can't.
:dunno:
If that is an available option it may be good advice. But some things cannot be let go of.
No one wants to share their stories of failure? Haven't you given your best to something, only to find your best wasn't good enough?
Of course I have. Sucks, but, it's the way things are.
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Of course I have. Sucks, but, it's the way things are.
Do you want to write about it?
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Not really, no.
It's in smaller and bigger things, from making food to a marriage.
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The only real thing I've accomplished in life that I am proud of is graduating college.
other than that, the things I have failed or achieved really mean little to me. I have learned to love all the negative things in the world, and appreciate those that fall short in life. I'd rather break things than own them, material success means nothing to me. Having a good job means nothing to me, so I do not think I have failed at any of those things but other may have a different view. All I care about in life at this point is falling in love.
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I fail in the domesticated area. BIG Time. Especially any attempt at proper cooking.
Yeah it puts me off trying. The other day i saw something on the shelves in Tesco. It looked like a bag of flour - but it said it was a mix to make white crusty bread and all you needed to do was add water! I gave it a go, thinking all the time, it's not gonna rise - but it did. It was ok too. The house smelt like i had been baking bread when the boy got home from school and he said it was a nice smell. I know i cheated a little, but it has given me confidence to try something else.
I fail in relationships too.
I often fail to manage my own money.
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Ah, this is what I wanted. Peoples' failures and how they cope with them.
We all have to face these things in our lives, our own shortcomings, our own failings. It's just not something people talk about that much.
So please continue. Share your broken dreams, your inadequacies, and your struggle to continue. I really am curious.
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okay, i think the distinction between a true failure and anything else is not about lack of success, or perpetual failure, but in fact the way in which one responds to these situations. I think it's fair to guess that a true failure will bodge good fortune and exacerbate bad luck.
to list my examples; as with boda, i really suck at cooking - apart from being very experimental and daring, i tend to spend ages making something i wouldn't give to someone else. i'm crap with money - don't drink / smoke / barely eat out yet i still manage to be skint!! I find it extremely hard to concentrate and i am disorganised. Failure? nah, i've learned to work around these things :)
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okay, i think the distinction between a true failure and anything else is not about lack of success, or perpetual failure, but in fact the way in which one responds to these situations. I think it's fair to guess that a true failure will bodge good fortune and exacerbate bad luck.
to list my examples; as with boda, i really suck at cooking - apart from being very experimental and daring, i tend to spend ages making something i wouldn't give to someone else. i'm crap with money - don't drink / smoke / barely eat out yet i still manage to be skint!! I find it extremely hard to concentrate and i am disorganised. Failure? nah, i've learned to work around these things :)
Isn't there anything you've always wanted to do, but couldn't because of these personal deficits?
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okay, i think the distinction between a true failure and anything else is not about lack of success, or perpetual failure, but in fact the way in which one responds to these situations. I think it's fair to guess that a true failure will bodge good fortune and exacerbate bad luck.
to list my examples; as with boda, i really suck at cooking - apart from being very experimental and daring, i tend to spend ages making something i wouldn't give to someone else. i'm crap with money - don't drink / smoke / barely eat out yet i still manage to be skint!! I find it extremely hard to concentrate and i am disorganised. Failure? nah, i've learned to work around these things :)
Isn't there anything you've always wanted to do, but couldn't because of these personal deficits?
i wanted to run my own cafe. kinda ironic. i've got a lot of saving to do if that's gonna happen :S
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The 12 Step Programs have incorporated the saying that, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results." Perhaps failures are the result of improper planning. This could be wanting to be a physicist, but sucking at math. This could be from failing to research the requisites of the goal, playing a guitar in a rock band without lessons. It could be from failing to adequately define the goal or from not setting a deadline. It could be from not critically examining and evaluating each attempt and making the needed changes. There is probably no one reason for failure.
My failures in life can be traced to blithely assuming that things would turn out right, that I didn't have to work toward goals, that I even had to set goals. My failures were caused by a great immaturity and lack of discipline and preparation. Even when I had the opportunity to "redo" a goal, I blew it. I'm still financially affected by that decision to this day, even though it happened in 1979.
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Ah, this is what I wanted. Peoples' failures and how they cope with them.
We all have to face these things in our lives, our own shortcomings, our own failings. It's just not something people talk about that much.
So please continue. Share your broken dreams, your inadequacies, and your struggle to continue. I really am curious.
You know I am waiting for you to spill about your life too.
I have always wanted to be good at science-based stuff. I have the curiosity but no talent. Like Joe the baseball player, no matter how much I try, I just don't get things. I saw on tv recently a person representing a university here and they were an astrophysicist. How awesome would that be. Oh well, I have to stick to enjoying Star Trek, Stargate, etc.
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Ah, this is what I wanted. Peoples' failures and how they cope with them.
We all have to face these things in our lives, our own shortcomings, our own failings. It's just not something people talk about that much.
So please continue. Share your broken dreams, your inadequacies, and your struggle to continue. I really am curious.
You know I am waiting for you to spill about your life too.
I have always wanted to be good at science-based stuff. I have the curiosity but no talent. Like Joe the baseball player, no matter how much I try, I just don't get things. I saw on tv recently a person representing a university here and they were an astrophysicist. How awesome would that be. Oh well, I have to stick to enjoying Star Trek, Stargate, etc.
There's wanting to be good at science-based stuff and there's being fascinated by all things science. If in your case, these amount to the same thing, i reckon you should continue to feed your fascination with more and more information. I wouldn't worry about getting things, that should happen by itself over time. i know nothing about science but i guess there's a certain level of maths knowledge that could act as a barrier
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^Yes indeed, and I am hopeless at maths! Believe me, I have tried and tried with maths and I can learn something but I often forget it immediately. Recently I studied statistics at uni. Can I remember any of it? No. Going to have to learn it all again when I use stats in a group project some time this year though.
I really enjoyed science at school but I remember signing up for a lab assistant course a few years later and all the chemistry side of things confused me and I ended up dropping out and failing the course. I also failed an electronics course because I couldn't do the maths. Oh yeah, I know about failing. ;)
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I find maths to be total shit. Partly because I am totally shit at it
Adding up and stuff, cool. but after that I switch off
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^Yes indeed, and I am hopeless at maths! Believe me, I have tried and tried with maths and I can learn something but I often forget it immediately. Recently I studied statistics at uni. Can I remember any of it? No. Going to have to learn it all again when I use stats in a group project some time this year though.
I really enjoyed science at school but I remember signing up for a lab assistant course a few years later and all the chemistry side of things confused me and I ended up dropping out and failing the course. I also failed an electronics course because I couldn't do the maths. Oh yeah, I know about failing. ;)
Maybe you have problems concentrating when it comes to maths stuff, i'm stabbing in dark i admit.. But rather than me succumb to the temptation of typing a load of self-help bullshit I'll recommend all future Star Trek and Stargate boxsets etc. Maybe your calling is in the production of sci drama
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You know me well already... I have a lot of Star Trek and Stargate boxsets. Just been watching SGU as well. You are also right about the troubles concentrating; I have ADHD and take meds for it so I can study for uni stuff. Don't think I would be going to uni if it weren't for the meds. Makes me wonder how I could have done in high school had I known about my ADHD back then.
Heh, here is a Scumbag Brain pic I found:
(http://t.qkme.me/5859.jpg)
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I don't think of it as failure. I prefer to say i haven't quite mastered something! :zoinks: It won't actually be a 'fail' until i die or quit :hahaha:
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OK OK OK
I am a Birmingham City Fan
i know more than most about failure :green:
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OK OK OK
I am a Birmingham City Fan
i know more than most about failure :green:
you'll most probably be swapping places with Wolves next season, then you can get back on track to your mid-table prem finishes :D
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we just move up and down like a yoyo :zoinks:
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united level on poìnts with city now :green:
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We've all experienced failure, I can declare with some confidence. But what happens when a person fails at their goals perpetually? Should they really be labeled a "failure"?
Do you think the people themselves are to blame if they fail? Should they be pitied or scorned?
I'd like to read other peoples' stories about both their successes and failures in life, and how it affected their world-views. If you've ever worked hard to achieve a goal, let us know if it worked out or not.
You're a failure, Pig. :hahaha:
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Is he still lurking around?
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Is he still lurking around?
Yes, he is. The other day he even addressed our new member in the shoutbox.
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Have come to think of Pig as I2's very own basement dweller, always around but never coming up the stairs. Have been wondering lately if Bodaccea has joined him down there.
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Ceiling cat doesn't approve.
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:laugh:
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I reckon that new guy may get on with Pig. Both Nihilistic emos
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successful at failing
I've been wondering about this because this does exist for me. I don't understand how it triggers but it's like an overriding expectation that success is simply not valued. The death drive takes over and tells you that it was a total waste of time for everyone because it's not NEEDED. Maybe something to do with the nature of contracted agreements of problems that nobody asked to solve.