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Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: skyblue1 on January 25, 2012, 06:19:21 PM
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LABEL IT: Psychiatrists have developed a new diagnosis for people struggling to cope after the death of a loved one; adjustment disorder related to bereavement.
Relevant offersPeople suffering from long-term grief after the death of a loved one will soon have their condition officially labelled a mental disorder.
Many psychiatrists have argued grief should not be labelled as a mental condition because it is a natural phenomenon which everyone experiences.
However, the next edition of the industry's so-called bible, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, will include a new diagnosis for people still struggling to cope a year or more after a loved one dies.
The condition will be officially known as adjustment disorder related to bereavement.
University of New South Wales psychology professor Richard Bryant, who is on the manual's review committee, said 10 to 15 per cent of people have a persistent grief reaction which can last up to 40 years.
Those most likely to mourn for more than a year include people who lose a child or suffer a loss through suicide and unexpected death such as a road accident or homicide.
"People have said it's not right to medicinise grief which has personal and culturally specific responses and psychiatry is butting in where it doesn't belong," Prof Bryant told AAP.
"The alternative view is that all of the above is true but we know after a traumatic event a proportion of people will have negative psychological reactions that will affect them.
"Having a diagnosis means we can identify people through formal screening programs and facilitate people to getting directed to appropriate treatments like cognitive behaviour therapy."
Prof Bryant, who is also the director of the traumatic stress clinic at Sydney's Westmead Hospital, said people with long-term grief tended to be "stuck in the past" and unable to move on with their lives.
"For most people after six months the pain starts to ease and for those who it doesn't they will have a long-term problem," he said.
"They are going to be more likely to abuse substances, have mental health problems, heart conditions and engage in poor health behaviour like smoking and drinking."
Often people who are struggling to cope with grief are prescribed anti-depressants and offered counselling.
But Prof Bryant said these were unlikely to be solutions for people with long-term grief.
"The reaction is about yearning and missing and longing and is distinct from anxiety and depression and is not responsive to treatment for depression," he said.
"So, medication is not going to help it.
"It is psychotherapy programs which are different from the normal grief work programs and counsellors that are best."
Prof Bryant is due to discuss the new diagnosis for long-term grief at a forum hosted by the University of Melbourne's Australian Centre for Post-traumatic Mental Health on August 12.
The next edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders is due to be published by the American Psychiatric Association in 2013.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/537080...al-illness (http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/537080...al-illness)
Redefining process of mourning - Proposal would label grief a mental disorder
Human grief could soon be diagnosed as a mental disorder under a proposal critics fear could lead to mood-altering pills being pushed for “mourning.”
Psychiatrists charged with revising the official “bible” of mental illness are recommending changes that would make it easier for doctors to diagnose major depression in the newly bereaved.
Instead of having to wait months, the diagnosis could be made two weeks after the loss of a loved one.
The current edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders – an influential tome used the world over – excludes people who have recently suffered a loss from being diagnosed with a major depressive disorder unless his or her symptoms persist beyond two months. It’s known as the “grief exclusion,” the theory being that “normal” grief shouldn’t be labelled a mental disorder.
But in what critics have called a potentially disastrous suggestion tucked among the proposed changes to the manual, “grief exclusion” would be eliminated from the DSM.
Proponents argue that major depression is major depression, that it makes little difference whether it comes on after the loss of a loved one, the loss of a job, the loss of a marriage or any other major life stressor. Eliminating “grief exclusion” would help people get treatment sooner than they otherwise would.
But critics fear that those experiencing completely expectable symptoms of grief would be labelled mentally “sick.” Dr. Allen Frances says the proposal would pathologize a normal human emotion and could bring on even wider prescribing of moodaltering pills.
“This is a disaster,” says Frances, a renowned U.S. psychiatrist who chaired the task force that wrote the current edition of the DSM, which is now undergoing its fifth revision. “Say you lose someone you love and two weeks later you feel sad, can’t sleep well, and have reduced interest, appetite, and energy. These five symptoms are completely typical of normal grieving, but DSM-5 would instead label you with a mental disorder.”
http://www.cchrint.org/2011/04/18/psychi...-disorder/ (http://www.cchrint.org/2011/04/18/psychi...-disorder/)
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My word, what would they have thought of me? I was in mourning for Prince Albert for slightly over 40 years. Preposterous that mourning should be a mental illness. I think those mind(less) doctors are a mental illness. Humph!
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I agree with you, QV. I think that grieving after a loved one dies is perfectly normal.
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And not grieving after the death of a loved one is natural also. Just depends on the circumstances.
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I don't think it's right to "medicinise" grief.
BUT , but doing this looks like there is going to be more support / awareness for those who are struggling to come to terms with losing a loved one and give them the support / therapy they need.
I can't really see that as a bad thing
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It'll make it easier to bill for someone whose primary issue is grief. Right now you have use use an adjustment or depressive disorder, though you can still code bereavement (it's not billable, and I think it might be more of an Axis IV thing right now). In each case it specifies that the reaction has to be considered "abnormal" and as a clinician you kinda can't normalize it and bill for it at the same time.
(In general you can't actually see a client without saying, essentially, that they're mentally ill; insurance companies won't allow it. It's annoying but of all the ethical dilemmas out there it's not one of the ones worth losing sleep over.)
Might also raise awareness of the need for more grief-centered therapies, as squid said. There seems to be a lack where I am, but perhaps that's just in my neck of the woods. At any rate, just because it's natural doesn't mean it's not appropriate to seek help for.
With the American psychiatric association's direct blessing or not, pathologizers gonna pathologize. I don't think this'll do too much damage tbh. Might do some good/actually make more diagnoses almost mean slightly more than diddlyshit.
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I think there is a range of emotions when a loved one dies. Some very negative ones. I think you have to experience them all. This takes time. It takes longer for some people, but it's still a normal process to go through. I do think some people may be at risk of making themselves mentally ill, because they won't/can't/don't complete the grieving process. I don't think grieving is a mental illness at all, but it could be a contributing factor for some. It's one of thousands of reasons i guess.
As squiddy said - if it gets help to those who are clearly struggling to cope then i don't think it's such a bad thing.
Some parts of the globe might benefit to a change in attitude. In my neck of the woods, when someone dies, people fuss around you til after the funeral, then if you haven't gotten over it a few months later, they start crossing over the road because they don't know what to say to you. I think this is awful. Talking about the person is not an option round here. People don't seem to want to do it after the funeral. :dunno:
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I lost my mother in Sept, we were close. I've already had anti-depressants shoved at me twice already. :thumbdn:
I'm functional, I don't break down in public, I don't lock myself in a room and cry all day, I still laugh when somethings funny, I still do what I need to do every day. Sure some days suck, but I don't want a pill to take it away...to NOT feel this.
You are given a time span it seems anymore...to "get over it". Grief now has an expiration date, probably thanks to the makers of Zoloft and all the others you see advertised to ad nauseum every day. ::)
If you where really close to someone I don't think you ever "get over it"...I lost my father in 95.
I've learned that time heals in it's own way, it gets better, it never goes away, their are still days on occasion when something reminds me of him and I feel the loss, going on 17 years later.
I think if grief is "all consuming" for an extended period of time, people should be encouraged to seek help for it, but I think labeling it as a disorder is ridiculous. :zombiefuck: It's more like a learning experience in coping, although a very hard one sometimes.
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NEWS JUST IN: Fucktardism is also now called socially deficient internet personality disorder or SDIPD. :laugh:
But seriously though, labelling natural and healthy emotional behaviour and responses as mental disorders? WTF? ::)
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If they're struggling to cope after more than a year then tbh I don't see what's wrong with diagnosing it
It even says in the article that this is usually people who've lost a child or someone thru violence. that's NOT "normal" and possibly similar to ptsd
it's not like they're gonna be diagnosing people with it every time they go to a funeral or something
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If they're struggling to cope after more than a year then tbh I don't see what's wrong with diagnosing it
It even says in the article that this is usually people who've lost a child or someone thru violence. that's NOT "normal" and possibly similar to ptsd
it's not like they're gonna be diagnosing people with it every time they go to a funeral or something
But then it seems PTSD covers the diagnosis instead of needing a new one. So if they're going to classify something new like that, shouldn't it belong as a subset to PTSD?
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Yeah, maybe it should
I don't really know that much about it tbh. maybe pmselle could say whether this could just be included in a PTSD diagnosis
that would kinda make sense actually. although like I said, I dunno much about PTSD really
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although even then, perhaps it is better for something like this to have its own diagnosis - if it's grief-related then it would probably be best treated by someone very specialised . I think it would require different treatment to most PTSD cases
although the only people with PTSD I have met have been war vets
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If they're struggling to cope after more than a year then tbh I don't see what's wrong with diagnosing it
It even says in the article that this is usually people who've lost a child or someone thru violence. that's NOT "normal" and possibly similar to ptsd
it's not like they're gonna be diagnosing people with it every time they go to a funeral or something
But then it seems PTSD covers the diagnosis instead of needing a new one. So if they're going to classify something new like that, shouldn't it belong as a subset to PTSD?
It has to be something that's perceived as a threat to one's physical/psychological health or something (and it has to be traumatizing, of course).
I don't see how the death of a loved one can do that.
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I think the Jews have a wonderful way of mourning. In a nutshell, you mourn for 7 days where you basically just mourn. For the next 23 days you go about your life, but refrain from social activities such as parties, weddings, etc. If you are mourning the loss of a parent the next 11 months is spent focusing on what your parent has given, taught, inspired in you, etc. For a more detailed explanation see http://www.aish.com/jl/l/dam/48958936.html (http://www.aish.com/jl/l/dam/48958936.html)
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I lost my mother in Sept, we were close. I've already had anti-depressants shoved at me twice already. :thumbdn:
I'm functional, I don't break down in public, I don't lock myself in a room and cry all day, I still laugh when somethings funny, I still do what I need to do every day. Sure some days suck, but I don't want a pill to take it away...to NOT feel this.
You are given a time span it seems anymore...to "get over it". Grief now has an expiration date, probably thanks to the makers of Zoloft and all the others you see advertised to ad nauseum every day. ::)
If you where really close to someone I don't think you ever "get over it"...I lost my father in 95.
I've learned that time heals in it's own way, it gets better, it never goes away, their are still days on occasion when something reminds me of him and I feel the loss, going on 17 years later.
I think if grief is "all consuming" for an extended period of time, people should be encouraged to seek help for it, but I think labeling it as a disorder is ridiculous. :zombiefuck: It's more like a learning experience in coping, although a very hard one sometimes.
My Mum died in September as well.
I think that if you are grieving, you are depressed and that it can be either treated or not and that treating it sometimes is a good option and sometimes not.
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When I met my friend in hospital, she was in for depression over the death of her dad who had died a few months beforehand from alcoholism. She was put on medication for it. I don't think she got any counselling specifically for it. Maybe she would have if it was labelled.
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I think it is common to see, when an old person dies, their spouse sometimes dies soon afterwards? Is that just coincidence?
I think we make attachments that are that strong. I don't think that there should be a set period anyway for grief.
I think it helps if the person has a child to look after, because it takes away that 'oh i got nothing to live for' element away. I can't imagine someone ever getting over losing their whole family. It has happened though. Some people seem able to cope with the most terrible circumstances, and others don't. It's weird. Maybe your state of mind at the time has something to do with it.
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I think it is common to see, when an old person dies, their spouse sometimes dies soon afterwards? Is that just coincidence?
I heard that apparently , a male is more likely to die about a year after losing his partner than a female.
IDK if this just applies to hetero relationships or not however.
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My aunty died in about 6 month of my uncle. He was the one who kepy everything financially and socially. With him gone she basically became ill and died very quickly
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It's more a general rule than a definate.
A distant relative of mine died and her husband lived for about 4 more years after her before dying.
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I think the Jews have a wonderful way of mourning. In a nutshell, you mourn for 7 days where you basically just mourn. For the next 23 days you go about your life, but refrain from social activities such as parties, weddings, etc. If you are mourning the loss of a parent the next 11 months is spent focusing on what your parent has given, taught, inspired in you, etc. For a more detailed explanation see http://www.aish.com/jl/l/dam/48958936.html (http://www.aish.com/jl/l/dam/48958936.html)
I think any "way of mourning" is bullshit personally. people should mourn (or not mourn) in whichever way is best for them, and for whatever duration of time comes naturally to them
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It's more a general rule than a definate.
A distant relative of mine died and her husband lived for about 4 more years after her before dying.
My dad died about five years after my mom died.
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I think the Jews have a wonderful way of mourning. In a nutshell, you mourn for 7 days where you basically just mourn. For the next 23 days you go about your life, but refrain from social activities such as parties, weddings, etc. If you are mourning the loss of a parent the next 11 months is spent focusing on what your parent has given, taught, inspired in you, etc. For a more detailed explanation see http://www.aish.com/jl/l/dam/48958936.html (http://www.aish.com/jl/l/dam/48958936.html)
I think any "way of mourning" is bullshit personally. people should mourn (or not mourn) in whichever way is best for them, and for whatever duration of time comes naturally to them
But what if mourning becomes manipulation or attention seeking?
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I don't get what you're saying
Of course people can use someone's death as attention seeking, I don't see how that means we all need to follow Grief Rules though
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I don't get what you're saying
Of course people can use someone's death as attention seeking, I don't see how that means we all need to follow Grief Rules though
After some time passes and the bereaved is still saying no to outings, sighing over innocent things because it "reminds" them of the departed, relying on others to manage affairs, etc. that's time to question whether it's grief or manipulation. And No, I won't say what time must pass or what exact actions or inactions will spark the discussion of manipulation. It depends on the individuals.
We don't all need to follow "Grief Rules" though. Each culture has it's own customs. Actually each family pretty much has it's own customs. See how you think in a few years and with a few deaths behind you.
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See how you think in a few years and with a few deaths behind you.
Huh? You think I've never experienced a death before?
Wow
I won't even bother responding to that
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See how you think in a few years and with a few deaths behind you.
Huh? You think I've never experienced a death before?
Wow
I won't even bother responding to that
Good, because you evidently are so wrapped up in this that you misunderstood that I wrote deaths, PLURAL. Not death SINGULAR. And there is no need to respond.
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I reckon, at the end of the day, it's best for one to be true to his feelings. If he feels grief upon someone's death, let him mourn his death as much as he desires (according to how he feels), regardless of what the traditional/familial customs state.
When my father dies, though, and if I'm still alive, I'm not going to even bother attending the funeral.
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It's more a general rule than a definate.
A distant relative of mine died and her husband lived for about 4 more years after her before dying.
My dad died about five years after my mom died.
My paternal grandfather died about six months after my grandmother died. My mum said it was like he gave up living after she was gone.
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See how you think in a few years and with a few deaths behind you.
Huh? You think I've never experienced a death before?
Wow
I won't even bother responding to that
Good, because you evidently are so wrapped up in this that you misunderstood that I wrote deaths, PLURAL. Not death SINGULAR. And there is no need to respond.
I have experienced more than one death in my life. I don't see how that changes what you said though. How many deaths must someone experience before they're allowed an opinion on this? ::)
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Adam, I apologize for my heated responses to you.
I honestly beliefe that I do not have the right to tell anyone how to live their life.
My posts were not well written and would have been less antagonistic if I'd taken more time in composing them and explaining myself. This is an area I will need to work on to avoid this type of misunderstanding.
Again, I'm sorry that anything I wrote disrespected and angered you.
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its ok , no need to apologise. i was just a bit pissed off with the assumption that i was too young to understand because most of my family are still alive etc.
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I don't think grieving in itself should be labelled a mental illness.
It's a part of life, and, everyone does it different. There are some things that seem to happen in almost all grieving processes though. And, based on that, you can see when people get stuck in a grieving process, where it becomes a problem.
That can happen after two months, after a year, after 6 months. It should not be the time that dictates when a process has gone off in an unhealthy route. And people should not have to wait for a year till they can get appropriate help when it is going wrong for them.
If it gets one label, will that mean one way of help provided by the insurances? Grieving that turns problematic will be different depending where it went wrong.
Someone still in denial after a year needs different help than someone stuck in anger, or someone in a depression. The label makes no sense to me.
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Death reminds us how fragile life is. Time left is an unknown quantity. I can see how this realisation might affect people long term. I guess its very depressing for some, to be reminded of the fact.
I couldn't give a rats ass what happens to me when i die. Throw me to the pigs? I won't know. I'll be dead. It's how you treat me when i am alive that counts.
You can put me in a fancy coffin, in a horse draw hearse, bury me in a nice spot under a tree...and you can sob, and sing silly hymns, and wear black, and be as respectful as you damn well like - it means fuck all really if i am dead.
If you have love for someone, do it now? that is my philosophy. I wonder if some people struggle with grief if they feel guilty about how they treated that person. Just a thought.
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The who, the why, the how, those things all have an impact on grieving.
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I graduated high school in 1998 and already 5 people i went to school with are dead. Seems grossly disproportionate.
Different deaths have affected me differently. One persons death made me laugh out loud. The times I was very upset by someone dying it always took a day or 2 to sink in.
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Death reminds us how fragile life is. Time left is an unknown quantity. I can see how this realisation might affect people long term. I guess its very depressing for some, to be reminded of the fact.
I couldn't give a rats ass what happens to me when i die. Throw me to the pigs? I won't know. I'll be dead. It's how you treat me when i am alive that counts.
You can put me in a fancy coffin, in a horse draw hearse, bury me in a nice spot under a tree...and you can sob, and sing silly hymns, and wear black, and be as respectful as you damn well like - it means fuck all really if i am dead.
If you have love for someone, do it now? that is my philosophy. I wonder if some people struggle with grief if they feel guilty about how they treated that person. Just a thought.
Maybe in some cases, but definitely not in others.