INTENSITY²
Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: bodie on October 10, 2011, 04:07:56 AM
-
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/08/article-2046814-0E4A2FAE00000578-389_468x540.jpg)
It's a labour of love: Pregnant woman who will give birth on stage
It is perhaps not one for the traditionalists.
A pregnant performance artist is planning to have her baby in an art gallery in front of an audience, as part of a work about childbirth.
Marni Kotak will spend the next five weeks at the Microscope gallery in Bushwick, New York until the baby, her first, comes.
Visitors to the performance called 'The Birth of Baby X' are warned the baby could be born at any moment.
Miss Kotak says that giving birth is the highest form of art.
She told the New York Post: ' I hope that people will see that human life is the most profound work of art, and that therefore giving birth, the greatest expression of life is the highest form of art.
Miss Kotak, 36, who has already staged re-enactments of other real life incidents including her own birth and losing her virginity as part of her art says that she is no more worried about giving birth in public than any mother.
'I have decided to do this because I want to show people that, as in my previous performances, real life is the best performance art,' she said.
'I wouldn’t say that I am scared to do this, because I have a good support team: my midwife, doula and wonderful husband,' she said.
'Of course, I am a bit nervous about the whole process of giving birth and having a child, and like every mother, I am hoping that everything goes smoothly.
'But I am no more worried than I would be if I were having the baby at home or in a hospital.'
Miss Kotak is not sure of the sex of her baby.
The gallery says Kotak is continuing to present 'her life experiences as works of art, works in which she strives to avoid the spectacle often involved in performance art to reach what is real.'
Her next work called 'Raising Baby X' will attempt to turn the act of bringing up a child into art.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046814/Marni-Kotak-Pregnant-performance-artist-birth-stage.html#ixzz1aN83oe6z (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046814/Marni-Kotak-Pregnant-performance-artist-birth-stage.html#ixzz1aN83oe6z)
Is this really 'ART'?
-
Is this really 'ART'?
Yeah. If harmony korine filming children vomiting on bibles is art, this is certainly art. It actually is meaningful and beautiful. Gross, but art. Sometimes Art is Gross. I think it's kind of beautiful.
-
I guess people have different perceptions of 'art'. I think children are
a work of art, the birth of one, well i am not sure.
I don't have a problem with this performer or what she is doing. If people
want to go and see it - hey i don't care.
I think sometimes people do things and call it 'art' just to be outrageous.
I am not sure if i would class this as just exhibitionism, and not art.
I have no problem with exhibitionists.
I am confused about what 'art' is?
-
There was an artist, I don't remember his name. He took a piece of a toilet and wrote his name on it. That was art. Someone threw elephant shit at the Virgin Mary and that was art. Some of the sick fuck movies I watch are art.
I was married to an artist, I'm used to this BS :S I loved all my modern art history classes at school and strange film interests me. The elephant shit is beyond my concept, but I wold not denounce its value.
Andy Warhol, Basquiat...now THAT is NOT ART.
-
I guess what I am trying to say is that art is more about concept and passion, and less about value or merit.
-
I find the new project, the raising of baby X kind of problematic.
Kids do have their right to privacy, even when their parents want to share everything with the world.
Is it art to give birth in public, in a way, yes. When we live in a society where everything is shared with the world via twitter and fb, this is an enlargement of what is happening online. Will make people wonder. Not so different from Cambell's soup Cans, when it comes to that.
-
I can see how the act of childbirth is interesting, and could even be considered a performance. I don't understand the art behind it though. I don't understand moden art. I can understand how a painting, or sculpture, or piece of music is art. I struggle to comprehend modern art at all.
-
Child worship.
Pedophilia.
What's the difference? :orly:
-
Child worship.
Pedophilia.
What's the difference? :orly:
Lots. Sexual attraction for starters.
Some cultures revere the elderly. I'm guessing they don't want to screw them though.
-
Child worship.
Pedophilia.
What's the difference? :orly:
Loving your child isn't exactly "worship". I understand your difficulty grasping the difference as you never experienced the former. :hug:
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
-
People will pay to see anything. As for is it art, you can say just about anything is weather people agree that it is or not is up to them
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
I agree. I dont think that children should be eaten in restaurants or sold in stores, either.
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
I agree. I dont think that children should be eaten in restaurants or sold in stores, either.
:laugh:
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
Last time I checked , whales weren't allowed in stores and restaurants either , how the fuck do YOU get in then? :autism:
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
Last time I checked , whales weren't allowed in stores and restaurants either , how the fuck do YOU get in then? :autism:
Neither are squids... unless they serve them as food. :orly:
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
Last time I checked , whales weren't allowed in stores and restaurants either , how the fuck do YOU get in then? :autism:
Neither are squids... unless they serve them as food. :orly:
Ah but I'm not likely to actually be mistaken for a squid.
You however are quite likely to be mistaken for a whale.
-
Interesting give and take.........
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
Last time I checked , whales weren't allowed in stores and restaurants either , how the fuck do YOU get in then? :autism:
Neither are squids... unless they serve them as food. :orly:
Ah but I'm not likely to actually be mistaken for a squid.
You however are quite likely to be mistaken for a whale.
But I don't have a fin.
-
Wouldn't pay to watch it. Art to me is what I say is art, same with anyone else.
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
Last time I checked , whales weren't allowed in stores and restaurants either , how the fuck do YOU get in then? :autism:
Neither are squids... unless they serve them as food. :orly:
Ah but I'm not likely to actually be mistaken for a squid.
You however are quite likely to be mistaken for a whale.
But I don't have a fin.
You certainly are a blowhard though.
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
If children were banned from stores and restaurants, how would they ever learn how to behave in stores or restaurants? How would they learn to order their own food in restaurants and how to shop for clothes and groceries?
I told my daughter your thoughts on this issue without identifying who you are and she said that banning children from stores and restaurants is just wrong. She said that the US broke away from England so we could could be a free country with equal rights for everyone.
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
If children were banned from stores and restaurants, how would they ever learn how to behave in stores or restaurants? How would they learn to order their own food in restaurants and how to shop for clothes and groceries?
I told my daughter your thoughts on this issue without identifying who you are and she said that banning children from stores and restaurants is just wrong. She said that the US broke away from England so we could could be a free country with equal rights for everyone.
Uh... the UK doesn't exactly support the banning of children from stores and restaurants either. ???
-
Looks like people called this one right. ::) Grow up already! My girlfriends son is 7 years old and he has his moments, but, he's learning. Don't deny him the right to learn.
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
If children were banned from stores and restaurants, how would they ever learn how to behave in stores or restaurants? How would they learn to order their own food in restaurants and how to shop for clothes and groceries?
I told my daughter your thoughts on this issue without identifying who you are and she said that banning children from stores and restaurants is just wrong. She said that the US broke away from England so we could could be a free country with equal rights for everyone.
Uh... the UK doesn't exactly support the banning of children from stores and restaurants either. ???
I know you don't, but when we visited the UK a few years ago, there were some restaurants in England and Scotland that she was not allowed to go into because she was either under 16 or under 18 and she was very disappointed by this because some of these restaurants had macaroni and cheese on the menu, which is her favorite. Her opinion of the UK and whether they allow children in some restaurants is based on that.
-
By the way, I won't be here for a while because my daughter and I are about to go shop for some groceries.
She wants me to add that people who insult children are actually insulting themselves since they used to be children themselves not that long ago.
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
If children were banned from stores and restaurants, how would they ever learn how to behave in stores or restaurants? How would they learn to order their own food in restaurants and how to shop for clothes and groceries?
I told my daughter your thoughts on this issue without identifying who you are and she said that banning children from stores and restaurants is just wrong. She said that the US broke away from England so we could could be a free country with equal rights for everyone.
Uh... the UK doesn't exactly support the banning of children from stores and restaurants either. ???
I know you don't, but when we visited the UK a few years ago, there were some restaurants in England and Scotland that she was not allowed to go into because she was either under 16 or under 18 and she was very disappointed by this because some of these restaurants had macaroni and cheese on the menu, which is her favorite. Her opinion of the UK and whether they allow children in some restaurants is based on that.
Ahhh ok , I see the link there. :laugh:
By the way, I won't be here for a while because my daughter and I are about to go shop for some groceries.
She wants me to add that people who insult children are actually insulting themselves since they used to be children themselves not that long ago.
She's correct. :thumbup:
-
X is a horrible name for a baby.
-
At least the poor child isn't called "Baby P" :P
-
I say if you're going to have a culture of worshiping (not just love, which is beneficial, but worship, which is demeaning) children, then please don't act so fucking surprised when some assholes want to take it "too far". That's all. :tard:
Are you upset that nobody tried to take it "too far" when you were a kid? :lovelove:
That's irrelevant, since nobody even "tried" period when I was a kid.
Pretty hilarious response, though.
Most of your opinions seem to be formed from a want to put down others happiness because you lack it yourself or because they have something you don't.
I might do a lot of bitter projection. But one thing is for sure: Children are fucking annoying. And just like cigarettes, should be banned from stores and restaurants.
If children were banned from stores and restaurants, how would they ever learn how to behave in stores or restaurants? How would they learn to order their own food in restaurants and how to shop for clothes and groceries?
I told my daughter your thoughts on this issue without identifying who you are and she said that banning children from stores and restaurants is just wrong. She said that the US broke away from England so we could could be a free country with equal rights for everyone.
Uh... the UK doesn't exactly support the banning of children from stores and restaurants either. ???
I know you don't, but when we visited the UK a few years ago, there were some restaurants in England and Scotland that she was not allowed to go into because she was either under 16 or under 18 and she was very disappointed by this because some of these restaurants had macaroni and cheese on the menu, which is her favorite. Her opinion of the UK and whether they allow children in some restaurants is based on that.
Ahhh ok , I see the link there. :laugh:
By the way, I won't be here for a while because my daughter and I are about to go shop for some groceries.
She wants me to add that people who insult children are actually insulting themselves since they used to be children themselves not that long ago.
She's correct. :thumbup:
:agreed:
-
By the way, I won't be here for a while because my daughter and I are about to go shop for some groceries.
She wants me to add that people who insult children are actually insulting themselves since they used to be children themselves not that long ago.
Some of us mere moments ago. Some of us still are.
-
I like and enjoy being childish once in a while. It's one of the things my girlfriend enjoys about me. And she also is learning to be that way. I am her teacher in that regard. :zoinks:
-
X is a horrible name for a baby.
In The Grapes of Wrath there was a mention of a character named X. His mother was illiterate and signed the birth certificate and gave him up for adoption. He was never adopted and lived his life as X. :/
i remember in the 70s or 80s there was "baby x", a baby that was raised with the gender concealed. That was highly criticized, so I don't think anyone would do that again.
X is a weird name, but so is Tallulah. If I had a girl I would name her Tallulah.
-
i remember in the 70s or 80s there was "baby x", a baby that was raised with the gender concealed. That was highly criticized, so I don't think anyone would do that again.
There was a discussion here not long ago about someone in the news doing or planning to do something similar.
-
At least the poor child isn't called "Baby P" :P
Ah yes Baby P, that was tragic.
For the benefit of those not in UK - Baby P couldn't be named for
legal reasons. He was a little boy that was abused. He was abused
so badly he died before social services took him into care. The case
was big news. A lot of critisism directed at social services and those
agencies that are supposed to protect vulnerable children. Heads Rolled.
-
@ Callaway
I wonder where you went in the UK? Must have just been unlucky.
It is my understanding that most establishments serving alcohol only
refuse to let minors in. Establishments serving alcohol and food usually
allow under 18's.
Please tell your daughter how sorry i am she missed out on Macaroni
Cheese and if you ever come this way again i will personally recommend
to you somewhere more accommodating.
-
I have mixed feelings about this event. It disturbs me in one way, birthing is an intense, messy and painful thing, as well as joyous. But, to make "art" out of it.....well..... :dunno: It is her right to do as she pleases and if her husband is on board with it...that's their choice. I just wonder how they are going to explain this to the child as he/she matures. Then again, there will be lots of pictures to choose from for the album! :santa:
-
At least the poor child isn't called "Baby P" :P
Ah yes Baby P, that was tragic.
For the benefit of those not in UK - Baby P couldn't be named for
legal reasons. He was a little boy that was abused. He was abused
so badly he died before social services took him into care. The case
was big news. A lot of critisism directed at social services and those
agencies that are supposed to protect vulnerable children. Heads Rolled.
Oops forgot about that , apologies if I sounded a tad insensitive , I was making a play on words "Baby P - Baby Pee".
But yes , that was a horrible horrible thing. :(
-
@ Callaway
I wonder where you went in the UK? Must have just been unlucky.
It is my understanding that most establishments serving alcohol only
refuse to let minors in. Establishments serving alcohol and food usually
allow under 18's.
Please tell your daughter how sorry i am she missed out on Macaroni
Cheese and if you ever come this way again i will personally recommend
to you somewhere more accommodating.
We spent time in London, Edinburgh, and near Oxford University, but we also drove to see Stonehenge and Bath. I think that the restaurants were in London and Edinburgh, though.
These were restaurants serving both alcohol and food, because they had their menus posted outside and there's no way we would have wanted to go in unless these restaurants had macaroni and cheese on their menus because that seemed to be all she wanted to eat at the time. She wasn't acting naughty or anything, so it couldn't have been that, but as soon as we walked in the door, someone came up to us and said that she couldn't be there because she was too young.
-
I am sorry that happened to you and your family Callaway. I really can offer
no explanation and am baffled myself. Usually folks here fall over themselves
for American tourists as there is this belief that all Americans are rich :zoinks:
If you ever visit again a good place to stay is Stratford. Shakespeare's old
haunt. It is a lovely place with many places to eat that welcome children.
-
I am sorry that happened to you and your family Callaway. I really can offer
no explanation and am baffled myself. Usually folks here fall over themselves
for American tourists as there is this belief that all Americans are rich :zoinks:
If you ever visit again a good place to stay is Stratford. Shakespeare's old
haunt. It is a lovely place with many places to eat that welcome children.
Thanks, Bodaccea. We must stay there next time we visit. Many people were very kind to us, though.
The hotel in the middle of London where we stayed in for Christmas upgraded us to a "family suite," a lady not only let me ride with my daughter on a carousel when I explained to her that she had special needs, she wouldn't even take our money, not even for my daughter's ticket, and a lady at a shoe store near Kew Gardens where we bought sheepskin snow boots for our daughter not only suggested a great place nearby for fish and chips, she also ran there to give us our change from the purchase when we forgot it. We visited Edinburgh Castle and bought our daughter a replica crown for a souvenir, but it was very awkward to pack into a suitcase, so we let our daughter wear it on the airplane. A flight attendant with a lovely sense of humor curtseyed to our daughter and said, "I didn't realize that we had the Queen on board," which delighted our daughter.
:D
-
Oh well i am glad there were some positives.
I like what happened with the crown :thumbup: