INTENSITY²
Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: eris on January 05, 2011, 11:34:28 AM
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First off, I want to say I do not take myself seriously. You don't have to be a genius to answer this thread, just answer two simple questions.
What is real, and what is true ?
>:D
To me, All truth is subjective. And If truth is subjective it is not absolute.
http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,591.msg693315.html#msg693315
there you go talking about order again... tsk tsk
What is true ? ok. now prove it.
If something is true now, but wasnt true before and may not be true in the future, then what does that say of truth ?
:)
here is a better example. the answer to "what is your mothers name" is diferent for everyone.
ok, you can logically pick that apart a number of different ways. you can say it is a subjective question , you can say it is a failure of the english language, you can say it is fuckotry.
EVERYONE WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT ANSWER. for everything
right ?
there are circles of order everywhere and it will always confuse people into believing bullshit.
chaos is not disorder. It is everything including silly questions about the value of truths :)
No. 1 + 1 will always equal 2.
I disagree with Discordianism because Discordians do not see the need to set truth values for statements. In generalizing a philosophy to other disciplines, it helps if there is a way to determine if a given statement is true or false (or "mostly true", "somewhat true", etc., depending on the philosophy/discipline in question).
Then explain the existance of wrong answers.
1 + 1 = 2 only if you correctly answer the question
If chaos is all just "advanced math" or something, then that makes it complete. finite.
The universe is not finite so there can not be a pattern for things that do not exist yet.
According to Godel, any mathematical system that is complex enough to include arithmetic is unbounded.
It is currently unknown if the universe is infinite, although current theory holds that the universe was created a finite amount of time in the past and is expanding at a finite rate; therefore, the universe is (theoretically) finite.
It's probably tearing itself apart, actually. Yeah, I believe the universe could very well end but I doubt if people are smart enough to answer those kinds of questions right now. But when you say mathematical system that is complex enough to include arithmetic is unbounded. you almost see my point :eyelash:
unbounded
:autism:
YES THINGS CAN BE TRUE SOMETIMES !
But they can also be false :)
one last thing
we could counteract logical arguments all night, and then we can start counteracting illogical arguments. and they would make just as much sense.
1+1 will equal 45 , 2345234, carrots, and nothing all at one and never, all at the same time depending upon current interpretation
my ultimate point about all of this is that things are _balanced_ , meaning equal, meaning meaningless,
While it is possible that the world is an illusion and nothing is what it seems, trusting rational disciplines to bring about positive changes in society is a strategy that has proven itself throughout history. The alternative is chaos, and chaos is a very unproductive state of being.
trust is the ultimate word there
yes you are right, if you TRUST that a rational discipline will bring about change proves itself bcause that is what most thinking people choose to believe
It is what we believe to be true that will always be the only truths.
i agree that "existential nothingness" is dangerous if you are an asshole, but you are confusing chaos with disorder again. Chaos is everything so it is the good stuff too.
I think everyone should try to save the world in their own way, and I believe in positive thinking :) ( even though it is sometimes hard to practice)
k semicolon, what does 1 plus 1 equal again ? :laugh:
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Everyone will die. Thats pretty undeniable. ;D
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agreed. If you jump out of a window gravity will make you fall to the earth and die. Order exists. but things balance themseves out with disorder.
ever hear of the butterfly effect ? ( not the dumb movie)
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What is real, and what is true ?
Nothing, its all subjective. However, most people on the planet think there opinions are the only truth. Otherwise people wouldnt go to war
Semicolon is just a internet fag who thinks he knows the truth. :zoinks:
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agreed. If you jump out of a window gravity will make you fall to the earth and die. Order exists. but things balance themseves out with disorder.
ever hear of the butterfly effect ? ( not the dumb movie)
The Butterfly Effect is a metaphor based on the work of Edward Lorenz. It basically states that small differences in the initial conditions of a system can lead to large variations in the outcome of that system.
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What is real, and what is true ?
Nothing, its all subjective. However, most people on the planet think there opinions are the only truth. Otherwise people wouldnt go to war
Semicolon is just a internet fag who thinks he knows the truth. :zoinks:
You're so sweet, Richard. :laugh:
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I don't have the luxury of dealing with philosophical "what ifs" at work. If I am changing out components or pulling wires to add a circuit in a panel I need to be certain that power is off. Two of my local union brothers have fucked themselves up severely running a fish steel into a live cabinet in two separate incidents in the last 7 years by contacting live 480 busses. In addition to that a member of a sister local died from electric shock while I was working in that local for the same contractor in 1999. Therefore concepts like a cat being alive and dead at the same time are not even worthy of my consideration. To me a circuit is live, or the power is secured. I have been bit by 120 volts on about 3 occasions in 30 years and that fucking hurts. I have no desire to experience 277/480 or 4160 because I was too careless to secure the power before proceeding. There are rare occasions when we work on live circuits or turn on heavy voltage buckets and there are specific procedures to be followed in those cases.
I dare any of you who believe current is a subjective concept to grab a live circuit of 480 volts sometime and get back to me, if you can, with the results.
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^ Yep.
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agreed. If you jump out of a window gravity will make you fall to the earth and die. Order exists. but things balance themseves out with disorder.
ever hear of the butterfly effect ? ( not the dumb movie)
The Butterfly Effect is a metaphor based on the work of Edward Lorenz. It basically states that small differences in the initial conditions of a system can lead to large variations in the outcome of that system.
yes. Things balance out. existance balances out non-existance
but that means that you can sneeze, and make someone in Japan have an orgasm ;)
order + disorder equals chaos.
I am not saying electricity and death and car radios are not real. There are lots and lots of real and true things in the world. Complete circles or order. I am saying that there are things that are NOT real and NOT true and they are just as important and meaningfull as everything else
what does that mean ?
nothing really matters, but try to be a good person and what you project into the universe will come back to you 8) :green:
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You're so sweet, Richard. :laugh:
Nah, this is a sweety right here. :hamsterwheel: :-* :heart: :pinkbeat:
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BTW my post about why empiricism matters to me is not intended as a slam on anyone who enjoys postulating "what ifs". I suppose that empiricism might not matter to me if I were a religious person.
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I am not saying electricity and death and car radios are not real.
:plus:
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post 700 :thumbup:
but by tomorrow it wont be 700...... but it is true now :)
BTW my post about why empiricism matters to me is not intended as a slam on anyone who enjoys postulating "what ifs". I suppose that empiricism might not matter to me if I were a religious person.
Everyone has their own truths. If a person find comfort in religion that will become their truths. Some people like to pray, some people like to fuck :)
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A lovely sentiment. :laugh:
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The last time I thought of all this, it nearly melted my brain.
I think it's best to remain ignorant, for sanity's sake. We will never truly know 100% about anything.
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These discussions are meaningless. All that they prove is how clumsily many people think.
eris, you're already engaging in Orwellian Doublethink on many levels. You're just showing how easy it is to brainwash people, as soon as they accept that 1+1= 457,863,752,323,545,890,324.
::) :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2: ::)
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You still go on field trips with a class, i havent done that i n like 20 years son!!
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These discussions are meaningless. All that they prove is how clumsily many people think.
eris, you're already engaging in Orwellian Doublethink on many levels. You're just showing how easy it is to brainwash people, as soon as they accept that 1+1= 457,863,752,323,545,890,324.
::) :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2: ::)
GUH GUVERMINT AND CORPORATIONS ARE SHIT, THINK FOR YERSELF GUH
*goes to some fastfood chain and happily accepts benefits*
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These discussions are meaningless. All that they prove is how clumsily many people think.
eris, you're already engaging in Orwellian Doublethink on many levels. You're just showing how easy it is to brainwash people, as soon as they accept that 1+1= 457,863,752,323,545,890,324.
::) :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2: ::)
GUH GUVERMINT AND CORPORATIONS ARE SHIT, THINK FOR YERSELF GUH
*goes to some fastfood chain and happily accepts benefits*
FYI, In-n-Out Burger is the highest paying fast food chain in the US. It's actually a good company to work for.
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Still makes you a tremendous hypocrite. :zoinks:
Do you accept disability benefits too? I wonder if you rub out "in god we trust" on them. :zoinks:
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These discussions are meaningless. All that they prove is how clumsily many people think.
eris, you're already engaging in Orwellian Doublethink on many levels. You're just showing how easy it is to brainwash people, as soon as they accept that 1+1= 457,863,752,323,545,890,324.
::) :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2: ::)
yep :laugh:
you are right about that , but we see it as two different things
im saying that everyone is brainwashed by their culture and youve been brainwashed by orwel. :eyebrows: Im not saying you are wrong, I am saying if it is so easy to brainwash people then doesnt it happen to everyone ?
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Be careful, he'll try to convince you how much of a FREETHINKING INDIVIDUAL he is!
THE ONE FREE MAN
(http://images.wikia.com/half-life/en/images/e/ef/Gordon_crowbar_enemies.jpg)
:LMAO:
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This thread is starting to make me lol. :green:
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I wonder if such FREETHINKERS do anything else but quote what other people say, or use avatars of them to "prove" their point or argument.
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im saying that everyone is brainwashed by their culture and youve been brainwashed by orwel.
Orwell is an antidote to brainwashing. He exposes how it works so that people can see it for themselves, and decide on their own how to deal with it.
Im not saying you are wrong, I am saying if it is so easy to brainwash people then doesnt it happen to everyone ?
Because there's basically 3 kinds of people: brainwashers (Jim Jones), brainwashees (kool-aide drinkers), and free thinkers (Orwell). There's a post here somewhere where these 3 types are compared to Larry, Curly and Moe.
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The One Free Man speaks the truth! :autism:
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I wonder if such FREETHINKERS do anything else but quote what other people say, or use avatars of them to "prove" their point or argument.
Yes, occasionaly I have to give a bitchslap to obfuscationists like you. ::)
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im saying that everyone is brainwashed by their culture and youve been brainwashed by orwel.
Orwell is an antidote to brainwashing. He exposes how it works so that people can see it for themselves, and decide on their own how to deal with it.
Im not saying you are wrong, I am saying if it is so easy to brainwash people then doesnt it happen to everyone ?
Because there's basically 3 kinds of people: brainwashers (Jim Jones), brainwashees (kool-aide drinkers), and free thinkers (Orwell). There's a post here somewhere where these 3 types are compared to Larry, Curly and Moe.
I think the end result in 1984 was that big brother won :( and to be carefull or believing bullshit because EVERYTHING IS BULLSHIT, and think for yourself. ......and dont be afraid of rats. ;)
But you are wrong about compartmentalizing people like that. People are amazingly complex and do things for all kinds of reasons. Even stupid people are very complex and intereting :)
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I wonder if such FREETHINKERS do anything else but quote what other people say, or use avatars of them to "prove" their point or argument.
Yes, occasionaly I have to give a bitchslap to obfuscationists like you. ::)
I think you need to talk to G-Man before you get that crowbar. :zoinks:
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:M
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see what I mean about chaos ?
those past two posts make absolutly no sense at all to me. But it makes sense to richard and Schleed
we are just throwing words at each other and sometimes some of them stick and form conversations :)
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My pictures are jesus crying for argentina. :(
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My pictures are jesus crying for argentina. :(
??? I thought Eva Peron cried for Argentina? That brings up a subjective truth eris. I fucking hate musicals.
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I like how this man thinks. maybe more than one person can cry for argentina?
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I like how this man thinks. maybe more than one person can cry for argentina?
I'll stipulate to that. :thumbup:
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My pictures are jesus crying for argentina. :(
??? I thought Eva Peron cried for Argentina? That brings up a subjective truth eris. I fucking hate musicals.
I hate them too. But i LOVE Hedvig and the Angry Inch. That was a musical.
So I hate musicals. I like one musical. How does one set a truth value for the question " Do I like musicals ? "
There is something called the theory of forms.
Basically it builds on Plato"s Cave http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/platoscave.html , and suggests that everything we see is really only a projection of that image..... kind of like a negative of a photograph. We dont really see anything real, just projections.
For instance a rose has set " truth values". It has flower-ness. :) real things that can be measured like color and number of thorns.
but it is only a shadow. Just a vibration of a flower. :laugh:
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A bit of what I just looked up regarding Plato suggested a "A place for everyone and everyone in their place" kind of underpinning. I recall reading in an old law book from Rothenburg(?) Germany that in the middle ages that thinking was taken to a ridiculous extreme of dunking successful tradesmen and/or their families for having the temerity to dress above their station. Plato would therefore be just as stuck in the cave of social expectations as most others of his time.
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A bit of what I just looked up regarding Plato suggested a "A place for everyone and everyone in their place" kind of underpinning. I recall reading in an old law book from Rothenburg(?) Germany that in the middle ages that thinking was taken to a ridiculous extreme of dunking successful tradesmen and/or their families for having the temerity to dress above their station. Plato would therefore be just as stuck in the cave of social expectations as most others of his time.
Plato was thousands of years before that, but I gotcha ;) Any kind of thinking can be taken to extremes.
And everyone is trappend in the cave. forever. we just have to realize that we are in the cave, and stop taking ourselves so seriously.
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I kind of like being serious. its what i do best, maybe someone should pass me a booklet of matches so i can just use them up and then forget i need to see >:D
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Should you be trusted with matches??
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These discussions are meaningless. All that they prove is how clumsily many people think.
eris, you're already engaging in Orwellian Doublethink on many levels. You're just showing how easy it is to brainwash people, as soon as they accept that 1+1= 457,863,752,323,545,890,324.
::) :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2: ::)
But in binary arithmetic, 1 + 1 = 10.
In Boolean algebra, 1 + 1 = 1.
So it can be argued quite effectively that 1 + 1 does not necessarily equal 2.
That's not Orwelian Doublethink, it's just a different perspective, IMO.
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Should you be trusted with matches??
just about as much as you should be trusted with phenominal cosmic power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfTfXLLJlzM
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I think I failed the course.
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Reality is subjective, not truth. No sense in confusing or combining the two. Chaos is a disgusting notion. Everything is caused by something. The butterfly effect only proves humans aren't smart enough to predict the weather.
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These discussions are meaningless. All that they prove is how clumsily many people think.
eris, you're already engaging in Orwellian Doublethink on many levels. You're just showing how easy it is to brainwash people, as soon as they accept that 1+1= 457,863,752,323,545,890,324.
::) :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2: ::)
But in binary arithmetic, 1 + 1 = 10.
In Boolean algebra, 1 + 1 = 1.
So it can be argued quite effectively that 1 + 1 does not necessarily equal 2.
That's not Orwelian Doublethink, it's just a different perspective, IMO.
In binary arithmetic, 10 is just different representation of 2. 1 + 1 still equals 2.
Boolean addition (the OR function) is not the same as arithmetic addition. The "+" operator of Boolean logic is not the same as the "+" operator of arithmetic. Boolean addition is not really addition; it is only analogous to addition. Furthermore, this only works in some algebraic structures.
However, this helps prove my point. Within the structure of Boolean logic, 1 + 1 = 1 for all observers using the same basic definitions and set of rules.
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Chaos is a disgusting notion.
LOL. The day reason attempts to make value judgments is the day its efficacy fails.
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Opinions are more fun when stated as fact.
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whats the best invention ever you ask? cracker jacks. Thats the truth, the toy inside is just even more truth
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whats the best invention ever you ask? cracker jacks. Thats the truth, the toy inside is just even more truth
Cracker Jack's toys lately suck, though. They used to have much cooler toys, IMO.
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Opinions are more fun when stated as fact.
:thumbup: :thumbup:
:screwy:
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Cracker Jack's toys lately suck, though. They used to have much cooler toys, IMO.
True. they used to be alot better in the past, my guess is there trying to save money by putting cheaper toys inside now
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Cracker Jack's toys lately suck, though. They used to have much cooler toys, IMO.
True. they used to be alot better in the past, my guess is there trying to save money by putting cheaper toys inside now
I blamed the potential choking factor, since any Cracker Jack toy would easily fit inside a toilet paper tube, but you're probably right that it's just money.
A little piece of paper you can stick on a pencil has to be a lot cheaper than some little toy.
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post 700 :thumbup:
but by tomorrow it wont be 700...... but it is true now :)
BTW my post about why empiricism matters to me is not intended as a slam on anyone who enjoys postulating "what ifs". I suppose that empiricism might not matter to me if I were a religious person.
Everyone has their own truths. If a person find comfort in religion that will become their truths. Some people like to pray, some people like to fuck :)
I like to eat! :snowman:
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Can I take Remedial Fuckotry? I'm lost in this class.
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Can I take Remedial Fuckotry? I'm lost in this class.
You've come to the right site! :laugh:
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Can I take Remedial Fuckotry? I'm lost in this class.
You've come to the right site! :laugh:
I know. Everyone running fuck around me.
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Can I take Remedial Fuckotry? I'm lost in this class.
You've come to the right site! :laugh:
I know. Everyone running fucking all around me.
fixed. :eyebrows:
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There is an amount of subjectivity in others such as real, true, truth, reality and the like. They are stated as concrete definitions but they are in fact abstracts. Consider the schizophrenic (or Richard for that matter) what they hear, think and perceive IS real but not true.
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Obsessed. mentioning me again? its time to see a therapist. you've got marshmellows for brains, I'd offer you some lotion to sooth your obsession but I'm no phsyclogist
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Obsessed. mentioning me again? its time to see a therapist. you've got marshmellows for brains, I'd offer you some lotion to sooth your obsession but I'm no phsyclogist
Richard. Cool it. :smashviolin:
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maybe you should tell him to cool it. I'm just responding to his obsessive bullshit
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maybe you should tell him to cool it. I'm just responding to his obsessive bullshit
No bro he's trolling the piss out of you, and you are continuously falling for it. Do you think Les is angry? He's laughing at you, and so are several others.
Normally I wouldn't intervene, but your smarts are a tad below the curve here, so I can't help it. This will be the only help i'm going to give. Hope you take the hint.
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i dont see it like that. I think i'm under his skin like you wouldnt believe
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i dont see it like that. I think i'm under his skin like you wouldnt believe
:-[
I tried, buddy. Again, he's LAUGHING.