INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Adam on November 04, 2010, 01:42:37 PM
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Wht if the parents refuse to give their consent?
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Yes.
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And what if the parents say No?
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i thought that all underage abortions already require it.
If i was underage and wanted an abortion, and my parents wouldn't allow it, i'd tell them to keep the baby. I don't want it and i refuse to take care of it.
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And what if the parents say No?
She has the baby.
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So you'd force a young girl to give birth against her wishes?
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Life isn't fair all the time.
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I would hope she could talk to her parents about it if she felt threatened by one or both of them then she should see a social worker and there should be a way to get one going through the system
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of course
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I think it's quite scary that any of you think it's ok to force a child to give birth against her will
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I think it's quite scary that any of you think it's ok to force a child to give birth against her will
I would never force my daughter to give birth against her will, but if she's a minor, she would need parental consent for any other medical procedure, so why shouldn't she need her parents to at least know she's having an abortion, in case she needs medical care afterward? I mean sometimes abortions don't go as planned and she could lose a lot of blood afterward or get an infection. She could die if she tried to keep this secret from her parents.
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I think it's quite scary that any of you think it's ok to force a child to give birth against her will
I would never force my daughter to give birth against her will, but if she's a minor, she would need parental consent for any other medical procedure, so why shouldn't she need her parents to at least know she's having an abortion, in case she needs medical care afterward?
The reason (once again) that girls need the right to have an abortion without parental knowledge OR consent, is religious fuckwitery. Muslims ae pretty bad about this. If a muslim girl in the US gets raped, she can go and have an abortion and her parents (especially her dad) won't find out. Otherwise, her parents could accuse her of having pre-marital consentual sex, and murder her in an "honor killing".
There's conservative christians that are almost as bad with this shit. You have to keep in mind that deeply religious parents are basically fucking insane when it comes to sexual issues.
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I think it's quite scary that any of you think it's ok to force a child to give birth against her will
I would never force my daughter to give birth against her will, but if she's a minor, she would need parental consent for any other medical procedure, so why shouldn't she need her parents to at least know she's having an abortion, in case she needs medical care afterward?
The reason (once again) that girls need the right to have an abortion without parental knowledge OR consent, is religious fuckwitery. Muslims ae pretty bad about this. If a muslim girl in the US gets raped, she can go and have an abortion and her parents (especially her dad) won't find out. Otherwise, her parents could accuse her of having pre-marital consentual sex, and murder her in an "honor killing".
There's conservative christians that are almost as bad with this shit. You have to keep in mind that deeply religious parents are basically fucking insane when it comes to sexual issues.
OK, I hadn't thought about the parents being off the deep end crazy and harming or possibly killing their daughter for having sex.
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Any discussion about abortion revolves the question of when life begins. I understand that to those who believe that life begins at conception abortion is murder. To those who believe that life begins at some point in the pregnancy, abortion is permissable until that point is reached.
Whatever someone believes is most likely heavily colored by your religious upbringing/beliefs.
In my case my view on abortion was forged by my miscarriages and that my mother tried to abort me because it was not a "good" time in her marriage, since my father was just starting college and she had planned to work. She had to quit her job (this was 1949 you know) and Dad worked full time, went to college full time, maintained a B average and graduated in 3 years. Oddly enough there was no consideration given to aborting my sister who is 2 1/2 years younger.
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Any discussion about abortion revolves the question of when life begins. I understand that to those who believe that life begins at conception abortion is murder. To those who believe that life begins at some point in the pregnancy, abortion is permissable until that point is reached.
Whatever someone believes is most likely heavily colored by your religious upbringing/beliefs.
In my case my view on abortion was forged by my miscarriages and that my mother tried to abort me because it was not a "good" time in her marriage, since my father was just starting college and she had planned to work. She had to quit her job (this was 1949 you know) and Dad worked full time, went to college full time, maintained a B average and graduated in 3 years. Oddly enough there was no consideration given to aborting my sister who is 2 1/2 years younger.
If this is too personal, then don't answer, but how did your mother try to abort you and how is it that you are still here, Weakling?
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My mother and dad were married in October and I was conceived in November. Mom went to her mother for the money for an abortion and Grandma wouldn't give it to her. I'm not even sure if Mom knew where an illegal abortionist was, but she did want a pregnancy this soon in the marriage.
When I was about 5 Mom had a hysterectomy, so no more children after my sister and myself.
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would need parental consent for any other medical procedure
Yes. exactly.
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While I would never agree that anyone (parent or otherwise) should be able to force someone to giv birth, I would have agreed with Callaway about at least informing the parents... but Scrapheap's point is important. Obviously the girl isn't in danger in most cases, but there are definitely cases where she is. Maybe it should be worked on a case-t-case basis, but then who decides?
I don't like the idea of abortion, but it should always be up to the woman (or girl) herself imo. Unless of course she's 8 months pregnant or something
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would need parental consent for any other medical procedure
Yes. exactly.
[/quote
NO ONE should be in a position to force a child into givingbirth, whether theyre her parents or not
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NO ONE should be in a position to force a child into givingbirth, whether theyre her parents or not
No one should be in a position to operate on a child without their parents knowing.
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My mother and dad were married in October and I was conceived in November. Mom went to her mother for the money for an abortion and Grandma wouldn't give it to her. I'm not even sure if Mom knew where an illegal abortionist was, but she did want a pregnancy this soon in the marriage.
When I was about 5 Mom had a hysterectomy, so no more children after my sister and myself.
I'm so sorry. :hug:
How old were you when you found out about all this and who told you?
I can't imagine how that made you feel. I was born close to nine months after my parents were married as well, but I never for a second felt like my mom didn't very much want me. I think my dad would have preferred having my mother to himself for a while longer, though.
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Should an under-aged girl get parental consent?
Under-aged and abortion is a sad combination. Parental consent can be tricky, in scenarios Scrap describes. But it can be equally tricky to go around that consent, and have a teen go through an abortion she does not want, because she is forced by her boyfriend to have one. There it might be the parent who notices the girl is being forced to get it. If it can't be a parent, then a professional at the clinic should be checking with the girl if this is what she wants.
There are also teens who are not safe at home, mental, physical, sexual and emotional abuse happen. What right does a parent have to decide with a teen, if that parent cannot provide safety for that teen at home? (In the case of sexual abuse by the (step)father, it is very likely that an abortion will be forced on the girl if she does not want an abortion too btw.)
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NO ONE should be in a position to force a child into givingbirth, whether theyre her parents or not
No one should be in a position to operate on a child without their parents knowing.
Informing the parents isnn't the same as requiring their consent
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Yes. Poor wording; also there's emergency to consider. Should have said, no one should be in a position to perform elective surgery on a minor without parental consent.
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Should an under-aged girl get parental consent?
Under-aged and abortion is a sad combination. Parental consent can be tricky, in scenarios Scrap describes. But it can be equally tricky to go around that consent, and have a teen go through an abortion she does not want, because she is forced by her boyfriend to have one. There it might be the parent who notices the girl is being forced to get it. If it can't be a parent, then a professional at the clinic should be checking with the girl if this is what she wants.
There are also teens who are not safe at home, mental, physical, sexual and emotional abuse happen. What right does a parent have to decide with a teen, if that parent cannot provide safety for that teen at home? (In the case of sexual abuse by the (step)father, it is very likely that an abortion will be forced on the girl if she does not want an abortion too btw.)
I find myself agreeing with Hykeaswell.
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My mother and dad were married in October and I was conceived in November. Mom went to her mother for the money for an abortion and Grandma wouldn't give it to her. I'm not even sure if Mom knew where an illegal abortionist was, but she did want a pregnancy this soon in the marriage.
When I was about 5 Mom had a hysterectomy, so no more children after my sister and myself.
I'm so sorry. :hug:
How old were you when you found out about all this and who told you?
I can't imagine how that made you feel. I was born close to nine months after my parents were married as well, but I never for a second felt like my mom didn't very much want me. I think my dad would have preferred having my mother to himself for a while longer, though.
I was about 20 or so. Mom just brought it up out of the blue one day. I know they had a difficult time understanding me because Autism/Aspergers and ADHD weren't well known when I was a child. I also know that having me made their life economically, physically and emotionally harder, but I never wished I had been aborted, just loved more.
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My mother and dad were married in October and I was conceived in November. Mom went to her mother for the money for an abortion and Grandma wouldn't give it to her. I'm not even sure if Mom knew where an illegal abortionist was, but she did want a pregnancy this soon in the marriage.
When I was about 5 Mom had a hysterectomy, so no more children after my sister and myself.
I'm so sorry. :hug:
How old were you when you found out about all this and who told you?
I can't imagine how that made you feel. I was born close to nine months after my parents were married as well, but I never for a second felt like my mom didn't very much want me. I think my dad would have preferred having my mother to himself for a while longer, though.
I was about 20 or so. Mom just brought it up out of the blue one day. I know they had a difficult time understanding me because Autism/Aspergers and ADHD weren't well known when I was a child. I also know that having me made their life economically, physically and emotionally harder, but I never wished I had been aborted, just loved more.
:hug:
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I find myself agreeing with Hykeaswell.
Didn't really get a clear view of her positon, other than the whole topic being tragic. Would have to agree too.
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It is tragic. But no one should ever be in a position to force a girl to give birth
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That is one of the possible unsavory variables, same as the others mentioned here; but as far as answering the question in your title, will stick with my answer.
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It is tragic. But no one should ever be in a position to force a girl to give birth
True, and no one should ever be in a position to force a girl to have an abortion either.
I think a teen in need of privacy should have the certainty that she can rely on doctors not telling her parents. Think she also needs to get support to make sure her decision is really hers, and to offer her support afterwards if she needs it. Be it support in helping her to not get into an unwanted pregnancy again, or support to help her with the pregnancy, if she wants to continue.
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Any discussion about abortion revolves the question of when life begins.
Not necessarily. As recently as a few hundred years ago, infatacide was a common practice in some cultures. It was commonplace in Sparta and other militarisctic cultures. I'm sure you could still find places where it's practiced today.
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It is tragic. But no one should ever be in a position to force a girl to give birth
True, and no one should ever be in a position to force a girl to have an abortion either.
I think a teen in need of privacy should have the certainty that she can rely on doctors not telling her parents. Think she also needs to get support to make sure her decision is really hers, and to offer her support afterwards if she needs it. Be it support in helping her to not get into an unwanted pregnancy again, or support to help her with the pregnancy, if she wants to continue.
I have to agree with Hykeaswell again. I think she's she' s too sensible.
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It is tragic. But no one should ever be in a position to force a girl to give birth
True, and no one should ever be in a position to force a girl to have an abortion either.
I think a teen in need of privacy should have the certainty that she can rely on doctors not telling her parents. Think she also needs to get support to make sure her decision is really hers, and to offer her support afterwards if she needs it. Be it support in helping her to not get into an unwanted pregnancy again, or support to help her with the pregnancy, if she wants to continue.
I have to agree with Hykeaswell again. I think she's she' s too sensible.
Sorry to be so annoying. :cuckoo: :laugh:
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/10/abortion-balancing-rights-relgious-medics
Religious people need to fuck right off
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/10/abortion-balancing-rights-relgious-medics
Religious people need to fuck right off
:deadhorse:
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http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2010/11/health-care-reform-will-lead-to-more-abortions-sarah-palin-says.html
dumb whore
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http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2010/11/health-care-reform-will-lead-to-more-abortions-sarah-palin-says.html
dumb whore
A dumb whore who should've had more abortions herself!! :eyebrows: :laugh:
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you mean a dumb whore whose mother should have had more abortions :P
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you mean a dumb whore whose mother should have had more abortions :P
That too!! :2thumbsup:
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Wht if the parents refuse to give their consent?
Ive thought about it. And, honestly, Yes. I think so. I do not agree with abortion but I believe it should be legal. i think underage abortion should be legal too - but with permission. I dont think underage kids are mature enough to do something like this on their own.
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Wht if the parents refuse to give their consent?
i think underage abortion should be legal too - but with permission. I dont think underage kids are mature enough to do something like this on their own.
I don't see it as an issue of "maturity", I see it as an issue of ownership. The genitals of a child, from the second they are born, are their own property and NOT the property of their parents. That means that the parents can't circumcise their kids, re-asign gender, or tinker with their junk in any way, shape or form. If an underaged girl gets pregnant, since she is the one who would have to give birth and raise the kid, she has the choice of whether or not to have the kid.
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:agreed:
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I see your point i just hope they dont regret it later.
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I see your point i just hope they dont regret it later.
Aside from education, I don't see how government policy could have any influence on that. :dunno:
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Wht if the parents refuse to give their consent?
i think underage abortion should be legal too - but with permission. I dont think underage kids are mature enough to do something like this on their own.
I don't see it as an issue of "maturity", I see it as an issue of ownership. The genitals of a child, from the second they are born, are their own property and NOT the property of their parents. That means that the parents can't circumcise their kids, re-asign gender, or tinker with their junk in any way, shape or form. If an underaged girl gets pregnant, since she is the one who would have to give birth and raise the kid, she has the choice of whether or not to have the kid.
I see your point about it needing to be the decision of the girl herself whether or not to have an abortion or give birth to the baby, since it's her body.
I think that if a young teenage girl who discovers that she is pregnant doesn't get her parents involved, she probably would be pressured by the twenty or thirty-something year old father of the baby to get an abortion, though. Otherwise if she gives birth, he's going to jail for statutory rape.
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I think that if a young teenage girl who discovers that she is pregnant doesn't get her parents involved, she probably would be pressured by the twenty or thirty-something year old father of the baby to get an abortion, though. Otherwise if she gives birth, he's going to jail for statutory rape.
It's kinda funny you bring up a scenario like this. Did I ever tell you the story about a high school friend of mine (she was a fuck buddy for a while) who was the result of that kind of relationship?? She was found abandonded at the bottom of a staircase in an apartment complex in Cincinnati in Feb of '73. Her biological mother hunted her down and found her in '95 think it was. It turned out that her mother was 13, and her dad was 30 when she was born. After she was born, the dad forced the mother to abandon her. Of course my friend being the little deviant that she is, took advantage of the situation. She has 2 legitimate birth certificates, and 2 legal identities. :evillaugh:
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In a perfect world, where every girl could talk to her parents and count on them being there for her when she really needed them maybe. But it's not perfect, and it's her body and her life. I think they should be made aware of all the options they have, and if counseling is requested I think it should be provided, but I think the end decision should be made by her and no one else.
My MIL got pregnant at 14, her parents packed her a suitcase and dropped her off crying in her boyfriends yard. They didn't look back and they didn't turn around.
Some parents religious fruitcakes or not, have either never grown up themselves or just should have never had kids. :P
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Some parents religious fruitcakes or not, have either never grown up themselves or just should have never had kids. :P
QFT!!
:indeed:
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I think that if a young teenage girl who discovers that she is pregnant doesn't get her parents involved, she probably would be pressured by the twenty or thirty-something year old father of the baby to get an abortion, though. Otherwise if she gives birth, he's going to jail for statutory rape.
It's kinda funny you bring up a scenario like this. Did I ever tell you the story about a high school friend of mine (she was a fuck buddy for a while) who was the result of that kind of relationship?? She was found abandonded at the bottom of a staircase in an apartment complex in Cincinnati in Feb of '73. Her biological mother hunted her down and found her in '95 think it was. It turned out that her mother was 13, and her dad was 30 when she was born. After she was born, the dad forced the mother to abandon her. Of course my friend being the little deviant that she is, took advantage of the situation. She has 2 legitimate birth certificates, and 2 legal identities. :evillaugh:
No, you didn't but how horrible for both the 13 year old mother and the child.
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It's kinda funny you bring up a scenario like this. Did I ever tell you the story about a high school friend of mine (she was a fuck buddy for a while) who was the result of that kind of relationship?? She was found abandonded at the bottom of a staircase in an apartment complex in Cincinnati in Feb of '73. Her biological mother hunted her down and found her in '95 think it was. It turned out that her mother was 13, and her dad was 30 when she was born. After she was born, the dad forced the mother to abandon her. Of course my friend being the little deviant that she is, took advantage of the situation. She has 2 legitimate birth certificates, and 2 legal identities. :evillaugh:
No, you didn't but how horrible for both the 13 year old mother and the child.
In the end, it worked out for both. Rachel (her biological mother named her Susan) was found within a couple of hours, was taken to the police department, and put up for adoption. She was adopted by a decent family and given a good home. He mother broke up with her much-older boyfriend and did OK from what I heard. The shocking thing is how much the mother and daughter ended up like each other, despite never having met untill adulthood.
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It's kinda funny you bring up a scenario like this. Did I ever tell you the story about a high school friend of mine (she was a fuck buddy for a while) who was the result of that kind of relationship?? She was found abandonded at the bottom of a staircase in an apartment complex in Cincinnati in Feb of '73. Her biological mother hunted her down and found her in '95 think it was. It turned out that her mother was 13, and her dad was 30 when she was born. After she was born, the dad forced the mother to abandon her. Of course my friend being the little deviant that she is, took advantage of the situation. She has 2 legitimate birth certificates, and 2 legal identities. :evillaugh:
No, you didn't but how horrible for both the 13 year old mother and the child.
In the end, it worked out for both. Rachel (her biological mother named her Susan) was found within a couple of hours, was taken to the police department, and put up for adoption. She was adopted by a decent family and given a good home. He mother broke up with her much-older boyfriend and did OK from what I heard. The shocking thing is how much the mother and daughter ended up like each other, despite never having met untill adulthood.
In what way?
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Ok, well I re-read the whole thread and many of you have good points
I think the thing I am concerend about is young girls using abortion as birth control. But I agree that many parents are not supportive
So I think this : underage abortion should be ok without parents consent, but a social worker must talk to the girl first and maybe try to help her.
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Depends if the social worker knows what they're talking about. Some are pretty hopeless. :duh: Who pays for all these abortions? I don't believe the parents should have to if they aren't told and/or disagree AND are prepared to support their daughter if she doesn't abort. I don't believe in abortion being used as birth control. Ultimately, it is the girl's decision but are the people pressing them to decide one way or the other going to be around afterwards?