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Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: General Razorbeard on September 30, 2010, 11:24:41 AM

Title: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: General Razorbeard on September 30, 2010, 11:24:41 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqFDoP7aSGY
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on September 30, 2010, 03:18:01 PM
I'm sorry, but did you have a point?
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: The_Chosen_One on September 30, 2010, 04:43:25 PM
I'm sorry, but did you have a point?

Personally I think he's just Generally a dickhead.

Enters hyke to give the killer punch.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Frolic_Fun on September 30, 2010, 10:48:46 PM
I could easily say Norwegian is a stupid language. Sounds like someone growling while eating shit, IMO.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Al Swearegen on October 01, 2010, 12:09:47 AM
Dutch can sound very sexy depending on from whose lips is spills.  ;)
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on October 01, 2010, 12:26:07 AM
I could easily say Norwegian is a stupid language. Sounds like someone growling while eating shit, IMO.

Pretty much every language is, to those who don't speak them.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Frolic_Fun on October 01, 2010, 01:15:54 AM
:P

Dutch does sound like trying to speak German while drunk, IMO. :zoinks:
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: 'andersom' on October 01, 2010, 02:24:21 AM
Can't understand most of what is said in this YouTube.

 :LMAO:

Guess choice of this YouTube is a stupid one to elucidate the topic.  :smarty:
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: The_Chosen_One on October 01, 2010, 03:19:20 AM
Can't understand most of what is said in this YouTube.

 :LMAO:

Guess choice of this YouTube is a stupid one to elucidate the topic.  :smarty:

Well, guess the choice was apt given the person who chose it.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: DukeNukem on October 01, 2010, 06:57:42 AM
Bombs? Or is it the bagel? :zoinks:
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: General Razorbeard on October 01, 2010, 07:00:16 AM
I'm sorry, but did you have a point?

I didn't mean to offend, just say that Dutch is a weird language, it sounds like; "Jooeebeerjook".

I don't mean to be stupid, but the language as a whole is somewhat weird in comparison to other Germanic languages like German, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish etc.

Examples;

Norwegian; God morgen min venn, fint vær i dag!

Swedish; God morron min vann, schönt vader i dag!

Danish=God moren min venn, fint vær i dag!

German=Guten morgen mein freunde, schönes Wetter heute!

Dutch=goede morgen mijn vriend, mooi weer vandaag!

I took some easy examples, but Dutch is still an outsider in how I view it.

Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: General Razorbeard on October 01, 2010, 07:02:23 AM
I admit, my language sounds heavy and weird too, but Dutch sounds like a large potato in the throat, they make that throat-sound when they say "c" and "g", Norwegians and Danes (maybe Swedes and Germans too) also make those sounds, but when they say "r", like English-speakers.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Al Swearegen on October 01, 2010, 07:03:41 AM
I'm sorry, but did you have a point?

I didn't mean to offend, just say that Dutch is a weird language, it sounds like; "Jooeebeerjook".

I don't mean to be stupid, but the language as a whole is somewhat weird in comparison to other Germanic languages like German, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish etc.

Examples;

Norwegian; God morgen min venn, fint vær i dag!

Swedish; God morron min vann, schönt vader i dag!

Danish=God moren min venn, fint vær i dag!

German=Guten morgen mein freunde, schönes Wetter heute!

Dutch=goede morgen mijn vriend, mooi weer vandaag!

I took some easy examples, but Dutch is still an outsider in how I view it.



You did not offend me. I thought it was silly but there have been a lot sillier things that have been said on I2.
I sill reckon it sounds sexy but then I am a little biased
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: General Razorbeard on October 01, 2010, 07:47:17 AM
It's a far cry from Danish English though; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk&feature=related

 :zoinks:
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: General Razorbeard on October 01, 2010, 08:44:40 AM
Try to understand this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5HRq7SHwFo

 :green:
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: General Razorbeard on October 01, 2010, 08:45:48 AM
Please ignore the ugly facial expressions ;)
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: General Razorbeard on October 01, 2010, 08:47:34 AM
What language do you guess this is?

Kanskje æ aldri behandla dæ
så godt som æ skull
kanskje æ aldri sa det
det æ skull ha sagt

Kanskje æ aldri såg dæ,
som æ burd ha gjort
og dæm tåran som e grått,
for min skyld

Konj æ skru tbake tida,
og rett opp alle feil
æ har mine svake sida,
men dæm gode e så mang fleir

Og om du smila i mot mæ
av glede igjen
skull æ ha trøsta dæ å sagt,
det vil gå bra min venn

Kanskje va æ itj t stede
når du trængt mæ som mest
kanskje va æ for blind
t å velge rett

Kanskje lar du mæ itj længer
få lov t kom innj
og vil du tru mæ når æ sei
at mårradan vil vinn

Og konj æ skru tbake tida,
og rett opp alle feil
æ har mine svake sida,
men dæm gode e så mang fleir

Om du smila i mot mæ
av glede igjen
skull æ ha trøsta dæ å sagt,
det vil gå bra min venn

Konj æ skru tbake tida,
og rett opp alle feil
æ har mine svake sida,
men dæm gode e så mang fleir

Om du smila i mot mæ
av glede igjen
Skull æ ha trøsta dæ å sagt,
det vil gå bra min venn

Det vil gå bra min venn

It's taken from a song that was popular some time ago.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on October 01, 2010, 11:56:36 AM
I admit, my language sounds heavy and weird too, but Dutch sounds like a large potato in the throat, they make that throat-sound when they say "c" and "g", Norwegians and Danes (maybe Swedes and Germans too) also make those sounds, but when they say "r", like English-speakers.

Norwegian doesn't sound heavy at all to me. I've always thought that there are very few Norwegian bank robbers and terrorists because no-one would take them seriously because of how the language sounds.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: 'andersom' on October 02, 2010, 02:26:31 PM
I admit, my language sounds heavy and weird too, but Dutch sounds like a large potato in the throat, they make that throat-sound when they say "c" and "g", Norwegians and Danes (maybe Swedes and Germans too) also make those sounds, but when they say "r", like English-speakers.

Norwegian doesn't sound heavy at all to me. I've always thought that there are very few Norwegian bank robbers and terrorists because no-one would take them seriously because of how the language sounds.
:rofl:

Do you have ideas of the relation between heavy crime and language for other countries too?
Please elaborate.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: ZEGH8578 on October 02, 2010, 02:29:44 PM
What language do you guess this is?

Kanskje æ aldri behandla dæ
så godt som æ skull
kanskje æ aldri sa det
det æ skull ha sagt

Kanskje æ aldri såg dæ,
som æ burd ha gjort
og dæm tåran som e grått,
for min skyld

Konj æ skru tbake tida,
og rett opp alle feil
æ har mine svake sida,
men dæm gode e så mang fleir

Og om du smila i mot mæ
av glede igjen
skull æ ha trøsta dæ å sagt,
det vil gå bra min venn

Kanskje va æ itj t stede
når du trængt mæ som mest
kanskje va æ for blind
t å velge rett

Kanskje lar du mæ itj længer
få lov t kom innj
og vil du tru mæ når æ sei
at mårradan vil vinn

Og konj æ skru tbake tida,
og rett opp alle feil
æ har mine svake sida,
men dæm gode e så mang fleir

Om du smila i mot mæ
av glede igjen
skull æ ha trøsta dæ å sagt,
det vil gå bra min venn

Konj æ skru tbake tida,
og rett opp alle feil
æ har mine svake sida,
men dæm gode e så mang fleir

Om du smila i mot mæ
av glede igjen
Skull æ ha trøsta dæ å sagt,
det vil gå bra min venn

Det vil gå bra min venn

It's taken from a song that was popular some time ago.

Trønder norwegian.
easy

everybody knows that :)

(thats sneaky tho. trønder differs enough for someone recognizing norwegian to still not be sure about trønder. hell even fellow norwegians have a hard time w it)
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: ZEGH8578 on October 02, 2010, 02:36:56 PM
It's a far cry from Danish English though; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk&feature=related

 :zoinks:

those are all norwegian actors btw. the first actor imitates danish quite properly, the other two suck at it :/

i totally love mandarin tho!!!
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on October 02, 2010, 03:01:21 PM
I admit, my language sounds heavy and weird too, but Dutch sounds like a large potato in the throat, they make that throat-sound when they say "c" and "g", Norwegians and Danes (maybe Swedes and Germans too) also make those sounds, but when they say "r", like English-speakers.

Norwegian doesn't sound heavy at all to me. I've always thought that there are very few Norwegian bank robbers and terrorists because no-one would take them seriously because of how the language sounds.
:rofl:

Do you have ideas of the relation between heavy crime and language for other countries too?
Please elaborate.

Not crime, no, but it's obvious that the traffic in France is a mess because the language is. :zoinks:
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: 'andersom' on October 02, 2010, 03:07:39 PM
I admit, my language sounds heavy and weird too, but Dutch sounds like a large potato in the throat, they make that throat-sound when they say "c" and "g", Norwegians and Danes (maybe Swedes and Germans too) also make those sounds, but when they say "r", like English-speakers.

Norwegian doesn't sound heavy at all to me. I've always thought that there are very few Norwegian bank robbers and terrorists because no-one would take them seriously because of how the language sounds.
:rofl:

Do you have ideas of the relation between heavy crime and language for other countries too?
Please elaborate.

Not crime, no, but it's obvious that the traffic in France is a mess because the language is. :zoinks:

Bien sur.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: General Razorbeard on October 03, 2010, 12:47:26 PM
I admit, my language sounds heavy and weird too, but Dutch sounds like a large potato in the throat, they make that throat-sound when they say "c" and "g", Norwegians and Danes (maybe Swedes and Germans too) also make those sounds, but when they say "r", like English-speakers.

Norwegian doesn't sound heavy at all to me. I've always thought that there are very few Norwegian bank robbers and terrorists because no-one would take them seriously because of how the language sounds.
:rofl:

Do you have ideas of the relation between heavy crime and language for other countries too?
Please elaborate.

Not crime, no, but it's obvious that the traffic in France is a mess because the language is. :zoinks:

Bien sur.

I think both Norwegian, Finnish and Danish is heavier than Swedish, but when Finns speak Swedish, it sounds extremely heavy, something like this (I don't mean to sound stupid); "You Fu...CKING bAstArd", it slows down, then "speeds up", I'll give an example via this YT clip, although It's in Swedish-Finnish; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unjYQlqLzHA

Link; Swedish.

The King; Norwegian.

Zelda; Danish.

Gwonam (the yellow guy); Swedish-Finnish.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on October 03, 2010, 03:48:47 PM
Sorry, I have to disagree. I've never been able to take Norwegian seriously.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: ZEGH8578 on October 03, 2010, 03:49:44 PM
Sorry, I have to disagree. I've never been able to take Norwegian seriously.

SAY WHAT >:I

thats just cus you havent heard trønder.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on October 03, 2010, 03:50:27 PM
Sorry, I have to disagree. I've never been able to take Norwegian seriously.

SAY WHAT >:I

thats just cus you havent heard trønder.

:zoinks:
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: The_Chosen_One on October 03, 2010, 07:16:50 PM
I have to agree with odeon. Ever since Monty Python took the piss out of them.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: ZEGH8578 on October 03, 2010, 08:31:10 PM
that was fun tho

in an annoying way :(

i even live in trondheim :(
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on October 04, 2010, 12:29:30 PM
My sympathies. ;)
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: General Razorbeard on October 04, 2010, 12:35:02 PM
Trønder IS a VERY complex dialect, even for Norwegians.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on October 04, 2010, 12:36:20 PM
Whatever.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: P7PSP on November 02, 2013, 11:22:43 PM
I admit, my language sounds heavy and weird too, but Dutch sounds like a large potato in the throat, they make that throat-sound when they say "c" and "g", Norwegians and Danes (maybe Swedes and Germans too) also make those sounds, but when they say "r", like English-speakers.

Norwegian doesn't sound heavy at all to me. I've always thought that there are very few Norwegian bank robbers and terrorists because no-one would take them seriously because of how the language sounds.
Brevik is a good reminder that Norway can produce world class asswipes for anyone who has forgotten Quisling.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on November 03, 2013, 03:52:24 AM
I admit, my language sounds heavy and weird too, but Dutch sounds like a large potato in the throat, they make that throat-sound when they say "c" and "g", Norwegians and Danes (maybe Swedes and Germans too) also make those sounds, but when they say "r", like English-speakers.

Norwegian doesn't sound heavy at all to me. I've always thought that there are very few Norwegian bank robbers and terrorists because no-one would take them seriously because of how the language sounds.
Brevik is a good reminder that Norway can produce world class asswipes for anyone who has forgotten Quisling.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: ZEGH8578 on November 03, 2013, 07:01:52 AM
I admit, my language sounds heavy and weird too, but Dutch sounds like a large potato in the throat, they make that throat-sound when they say "c" and "g", Norwegians and Danes (maybe Swedes and Germans too) also make those sounds, but when they say "r", like English-speakers.

Norwegian doesn't sound heavy at all to me. I've always thought that there are very few Norwegian bank robbers and terrorists because no-one would take them seriously because of how the language sounds.
Brevik is a good reminder that Norway can produce world class asswipes for anyone who has forgotten Quisling.

Most are...
In fact, I was thinking of it just the other day. Most Norwegian youth today have very little clue or care who Quisling was.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: TheoK on November 03, 2013, 07:04:56 AM
Most young people today have very little clue about things that happened before they were born.

On topic I must say that Dutch does sound a bit like distorted German - historically it is. Until the 15th century Dutch was indeed a German dialect.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on September 05, 2014, 05:00:40 PM
On topic I must say that Dutch does sound a bit like distorted German - historically it is. Until the 15th century Dutch was indeed a German dialect.

It was my understanding that Hochdeutsch was distorted from Plattdeutsch through a series of consonant changes. Plattdeutsch stayed more true to the original Germanic, and Dutch was related to Plattdeutsch.

(if only Lit was here to respond)
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on September 06, 2014, 01:56:03 AM
Lit would know, indeed.

Didn't he post at Al's place for a while?
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: ZEGH8578 on September 06, 2014, 07:47:00 AM
If you get me drunk enough, I'll start to unsensitively mimick languages.

Except Swedish, I'll do Swedish sober

Back in animation school, me and a friend tended to go around the hallways, shouting to people to "Akta er för lejonen! AAAHAHAHAHA HIHIHI HO HO HO!"

 :autism: :zoinks:
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on September 06, 2014, 12:12:45 PM
Lit would know, indeed.

Didn't he post at Al's place for a while?

Yes, he still posts there once in a while. I've seen him lurking here too.

As for my previous post, I'm just going off of what I learned in German class 30 some odd years ago. From what I remember, Plattdeutsch has changed the least from its early midieval origins whereas English and Hochdeutsch evolved in different directions but share the same root language.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: 'andersom' on September 06, 2014, 05:08:35 PM
Lit would know, indeed.

Didn't he post at Al's place for a while?

Yes, he still posts there once in a while. I've seen him lurking here too.

As for my previous post, I'm just going off of what I learned in German class 30 some odd years ago. From what I remember, Plattdeutsch has changed the least from its early midieval origins whereas English and Hochdeutsch evolved in different directions but share the same root language.
I think you are right here.

Dutch was constructed partly after the joining of the provinces. It is somewhat "synthetic" because of that. The first protestant bible translation had a big influence on the creation of Dutch too. Don't know how it is with Hochdeutsch, but something similar would not surprise me.

"Plat", "Lower Saxon", "Nedersaxisch" or "Plattduuts", whatever you call it still is a living language. My government wants to take the status of language away from it. When it is still being used in a large area. It is very close to Dutch, it is very close to German, but it has it's own vocabulary and grammar. It is not Dutch or German with an accent.
It is the language I am raised in, I wish I had some schooling in how to write it.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on September 06, 2014, 05:13:10 PM
"Plat", "Lower Saxon", "Nedersaxisch" or "Plattduuts", whatever you call it still is a living language. My government wants to take the status of language away from it. When it is still being used in a large area. It is very close to Dutch, it is very close to German, but it has it's own vocabulary and grammar. It is not Dutch or German with an accent.
It is the language I am raised in, I wish I had some schooling in how to write it.

When I visited Germany in 1988, the family I stayed with in Münster spoke both. It's still a somewhat common language in Northern Germany.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: 'andersom' on September 06, 2014, 05:40:05 PM
"Plat", "Lower Saxon", "Nedersaxisch" or "Plattduuts", whatever you call it still is a living language. My government wants to take the status of language away from it. When it is still being used in a large area. It is very close to Dutch, it is very close to German, but it has it's own vocabulary and grammar. It is not Dutch or German with an accent.
It is the language I am raised in, I wish I had some schooling in how to write it.

When I visited Germany in 1988, the family I stayed with in Münster spoke both. It's still a somewhat common language in Northern Germany.
It is.
On AFF/Spectrumites was a German guy from Köln, and the language he was raised in was very similar to the language I was raised in.
The languate is still alive, but in schools the official Dutch, or the official German is what is being tought and spoken.

I just read a bit on Wikipedia. You are right about Hoghdeutch being a later construction. Like in the Netherlands protestantism had a big influence on that. Protestantism focused on learning all people, to read and write, and brought one bible translation. And that translation, copied in massive amounts was one of the keys to universalising language.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Semicolon on September 06, 2014, 05:50:34 PM
(http://rs1img.memecdn.com/netherlands-rage_c_1002213.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: 'andersom' on September 07, 2014, 11:41:34 AM
A "ondersteuningstechnicus" is something completely different from an ingenieur.  :M

Our ingenieurs are people with a technical or agricultural university education (IR), or more practical high end of education(ing).
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Semicolon on September 07, 2014, 06:25:50 PM
A "ondersteuningstechnicus" is something completely different from an ingenieur.  :M

Our ingenieurs are people with a technical or agricultural university education (IR), or more practical high end of education(ing).

And is your "ondersteuningstechnicus" an English engineer? :orly:
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: 'andersom' on September 08, 2014, 10:29:26 AM
A "ondersteuningstechnicus" is something completely different from an ingenieur.  :M

Our ingenieurs are people with a technical or agricultural university education (IR), or more practical high end of education(ing).

And is your "ondersteuningstechnicus" an English engineer? :orly:

I hope not for the English engineers. Because "ondersteuningstechnicus" is not a real Dutch word.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on September 08, 2014, 10:48:04 AM
I hope not for the English engineers. Because "ondersteuningstechnicus" is not a real Dutch word.

Oh, bullshit! next thing you'll be telling me is that Fahrvergnügen isn't a real German word.    ::)       :green:       :autism:
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: 'andersom' on September 08, 2014, 02:40:50 PM
I hope not for the English engineers. Because "ondersteuningstechnicus" is not a real Dutch word.

Oh, bullshit! next thing you'll be telling me is that Fahrvergnügen isn't a real German word.    ::)       :green:       :autism:

That Jetta is an ugly car.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on September 08, 2014, 10:31:04 PM
Jetta is one of the most pointless cars ever.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: 'andersom' on September 09, 2014, 12:56:48 AM
Can't imagine any Fahrvergnügen in a Jetta.
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Semicolon on September 09, 2014, 05:21:27 AM
A "ondersteuningstechnicus" is something completely different from an ingenieur.  :M

Our ingenieurs are people with a technical or agricultural university education (IR), or more practical high end of education(ing).

And is your "ondersteuningstechnicus" an English engineer? :orly:

I hope not for the English engineers. Because "ondersteuningstechnicus" is not a real Dutch word.

:(

I was hoping that an ondersteuningstechnicus could tell me where Abraham got the mustard from. :GA:

Speaking in idioms is something that Dutch people like (http://stuffdutchpeoplelike.com/2012/10/24/dutch-expressions-idiom/). :P
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on April 21, 2015, 12:41:28 PM
Jetta is one of the most pointless cars ever.

I missed this.

Care to elaborate??
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: sg1008 on April 21, 2015, 04:53:25 PM
1:58 is the best part

Shit danish people say.. to foreigners (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66yKjSIe81Q#ws)
Title: Re: Dutch is a stupid language (post Dutch failures)
Post by: odeon on May 02, 2015, 04:36:35 PM
Jetta is one of the most pointless cars ever.

I missed this.

Care to elaborate??

Sorry, missed your reply.

It wasn't pretty. it was bland. It was boring and never managed to even hint at why anyone should spend money on buying one, or (ffs) maintaining one.

It was the Golf's poor cousin. Not many options, not many engines to pick from, nothing to separate it from better alternatives. Not that it would have helped. Imagine that one with anything that actually produced any significant torque. The handling was like a Russian Lada's.

It looked cheap, it felt cheap, but it wasn't.

I recall with horror the one I drove when acquiring my license back in the 80s. I had no idea what I was doing but I still knew this is a bad car. And I recall the one that my mother bought (thankfully she is now driving some Japanese thing, which all things considered, is better even though I don't remember what she drives now; must be the beer).

Do not ever consider a Jetta.