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Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Parts on January 22, 2009, 06:11:50 AM

Title: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: Parts on January 22, 2009, 06:11:50 AM
I saw this article today http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7842344.stm

Quote
A Dutch court has ordered prosecutors to put a right-wing politician on trial for making anti-Islamic statements.

Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders made a controversial film last year equating Islam with violence and has likened the Koran to Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf.

Seems weird here you can say most anything it seems that's not the case there. :-\
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: TheoK on January 22, 2009, 07:11:36 AM
If you say that immigrants rape more than Swedes, which they do, and that as good as all gang rapes are performed by foreigners from specific countries, which they are, you can get a harder punishment than the rapists.  ::)
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: P7PSP on January 22, 2009, 08:05:37 AM
I've said worse than that about that POS religion. Fuck Islam.
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: TheoK on January 22, 2009, 08:06:33 AM
 :agreed: :plus:
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: Peter on January 22, 2009, 11:49:57 AM
I saw this article today http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7842344.stm

Quote
A Dutch court has ordered prosecutors to put a right-wing politician on trial for making anti-Islamic statements.

Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders made a controversial film last year equating Islam with violence and has likened the Koran to Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf.

Seems weird here you can say most anything it seems that's not the case there. :-\

I think it's partly because of the Nazis and WW II; people in Europe were so eager to make sure it would never happen again that they overshot the mark a bit in curtailing freedom of expression and protecting minorities.  It's all very well to protect a proportionally peaceful, law-abiding and vulnerable minority from defamation and scape-goating, but the architects of the system don't seem to have envisioned and are unwilling to acknowledge the existence of a minority with a well documented religiously and culturally based disposition towards violent, criminal and predatory behaviours, the criticism of which is in some cases warranted and beneficial to society at large.
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: Dexter Morgan on January 23, 2009, 12:10:04 AM
If you say that immigrants rape more than Swedes, which they do, and that as good as all gang rapes are performed by foreigners from specific countries, which they are, you can get a harder punishment than the rapists.  ::)
Does it offend you, as a former Nazi, when Muslims are compared to Hitler?
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: TheoK on January 23, 2009, 05:08:02 AM
If you say that immigrants rape more than Swedes, which they do, and that as good as all gang rapes are performed by foreigners from specific countries, which they are, you can get a harder punishment than the rapists.  ::)
Does it offend you, as a former Nazi, when Muslims are compared to Hitler?


No, it's just a stupid comparison.
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: Parts on January 23, 2009, 05:47:56 AM
Too me it's not so much what was said but the fact that someone can co to jail for there words and expressing their thoughts. Who decides what is reasonable and what is not
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: TheoK on January 23, 2009, 05:50:54 AM
Too me it's not so much what was said but the fact that someone can co to jail for there words and expressing their thoughts. Who decides what is reasonable and what is not

The fucking court. :grrr: I never thought that the freedom-loving Dutch would make such embarassment of themselves, though.  :-\
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: Parts on January 23, 2009, 05:53:00 AM
Well then the court is wrong
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: TheoK on January 23, 2009, 05:57:48 AM
Well then the court is wrong

 :agreed:

The court is a bunch of PC cowards, licking politician ass instead of acting like an independent part of the state, like it should in a democracy.  :grrr:
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: P7PSP on January 23, 2009, 08:42:48 AM
That is totally cunty convicting someone for daring to call the Religion of Shite for what it is.
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: TheoK on January 23, 2009, 08:46:26 AM
That is totally cunty convicting someone for daring to call the Religion of Shite for what it is.

 :agreed: :plus:

Those towelheads don't belong in Europe to start with. The people in that court should be sent to fucking Iran or something.
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: TheoK on January 23, 2009, 08:50:03 AM
The unexpected thing is that it's in the Netherlands. You could expect this from a worthless self-hating country like Sweden, Germany or the UK but the Dutch are known for their tolerant laws. I guess they are forced to accept the New World Order like anyone else now.  :grrr:
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: TheoK on January 23, 2009, 08:58:24 AM
The frog-eaters have convicted Brigitte Bardot several times for speaking the truth about the sandniggers. Though the French were always a bunch of idiots.
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: DirtDawg on January 23, 2009, 09:50:13 AM
If you say that immigrants rape more than Swedes, which they do, and that as good as all gang rapes are performed by foreigners from specific countries, which they are, you can get a harder punishment than the rapists.  ::)

We have "hate crime" laws also. It is a somewhat vague stopgap measure to pile on additional sentencing to really heinous offenders. Especially if two of one race attack one of another race, they will often try to define the crime as a hate crime. Since sentencing for many crimes has softened these days and most of the public seem to agree that it should NOT have, these "extra laws"  are used to redefine certain crimes as "Hate related." 

We just can't have any hate, not in this country. We are all one big happy family, remember.


It has already happened when a defendant is found NOT Guilty of a charge of assault, due to some legal technicality, but sentenced to prison for committing a Hate Crime. How can that possibly be?

:GA:
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: TheoK on January 23, 2009, 09:58:45 AM
"Hate crime" is a fucking tautology. Except when poor people steal food to survive, when was a crime with a victim not committed out of hatred?  ::)
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: DirtDawg on January 23, 2009, 10:09:55 AM
This is from WIKI: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime)


Quote
Arguments for hate crime laws

Justifications for harsher punishments for hate crimes focus on the notion that hate crimes cause greater individual and societal harm. In Wisconsin v. Mitchell, the Supreme Court of the United States unanimously found that "bias-motivated crimes are more likely to provoke retaliatory crimes, inflict distinct emotional harms on their victims, and incite community unrest.... The State's desire to redress these perceived harms provides an adequate explanation for its penalty-enhancement provision over and above mere disagreement with offenders' beliefs or biases.


The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously found that penalty-enhancement hate crime statutes do not conflict with free speech rights because they do not punish an individual for exercising freedom of expression; rather, they allow courts to consider motive when sentencing a criminal for conduct which is not protected by the First Amendment.


Arguments in opposition to hate crime laws
   

The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously found that hate crime statutes which criminalize bias-motivated speech or symbolic speech conflict with free speech rights because they isolated certain words based on their content or viewpoint .

Some have argued hate crime laws bring the law into disrepute and further divide society, as groups apply to have their critics silenced. Some have argued that if it is true that all violent crimes are the result of the perpetrator's contempt for the victim, then all crimes are hate crimes. Thus, if there is no alternate rationale for prosecuting some people more harshly for the same crime based on who the victim is, then different defendants are treated unequally under the law, which violates the United States Constitution.
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: Parts on January 23, 2009, 03:44:21 PM
Hate crime laws are bad also.  It should be let up to the judge for sentencing and if say someone beat a gay guy because he was gay the judge could just max his sentence.  Adding these things on is just stupid and they seem to be enforce on a selective abases
Title: Re: Free speach US vs EU
Post by: DirtDawg on January 23, 2009, 05:43:21 PM
Interestingly, the hate crime bills regarding crimes against gay/lesbian, etc. have not passed. The people trying to pass these bills have, stupidly, attached proposed legislation to some of the most ridiculous "major bills."  The last time it was attempted, the Matthew Shepard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard) Act as it has been called, was attached as an amendment to a DOD bill for funding troops in Iraq, FFS.



An item from the "Agenda" section Obama's website:

Expand Hate Crimes Statutes: President Obama and Vice President Biden will strengthen federal hate crimes legislation, expand hate crimes protection by passing the Matthew Shepard Act, and reinvigorate enforcement at the Department of Justice's Criminal Section.