The Pea & Freund

[The Member Formerly Known As Sophist]

Any reasons you thought it would be a good idea to play Freund?

Not even funny, P. 

[thepeaguy]

We are legion, for we are many!

Too bad you're fucking ignored, babes. 

[Leto729]

I agree It is not very funny.

[Nocturnalist!]

Not even funny, P. 

What's happened?

[Nocturnalist!]

Too bad you're fucking ignored, babes. 

Um... you're not ignoring, you're replying!

[TheoK]

I like Peaguy. I've joined his forum.

[Tom/Mutate]

Not even funny, P. 

What's happened?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Freund

[Callaway]

I like Peaguy. I've joined his forum.

I don't think that this is about whether someone likes or dislikes Pea, Litigious.

I don't know if you were here when Monastic told us about what happened on WP with Will Freund and the moderators, including herself and Sophist, and how they busted their asses trying to get help for him even though they had no help at all from Alex Plank, so here is a copy of that:

Regarding Alex Plank's Original Sin.  The Demise of Will - For the Record

Oct. 04, 2005
I was worried about a member on WrongPlanet.  I addressed this when I wrote this thread on the moderators only forum;
(me, writing to the other moderators)
"I think this thread should be watched carefully;
http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&
I'm not sure if this person is being upfront with a threat of suicide or if it is just another of those goofy "tests" that has been posted lately and then is said to be "all in the name of fun & games"

For ________ to tell them to knock themselves out is truly inappropriate I feel (even as a joke) but what I feel is inappropriate is not usually what the majority feels so I thought I'd ask all of you.
(at this time I had just been challenged and called names for making a call on a post that I thought was inappropriate for the general forum.  I felt the post should be moved to a mature forum and there was opposition regarding this action) 
I went on to say;

I don't think suicide scares are something to be treated lightly (or to be done as a joke, for that matter). If someone follows through with suicide, it could backfire on WP to be seen as a site where members replied to the victim, "knock yourself out...lol""
(At the time, I didn't realize how prophetic this post would become)
_________________________
(This is the Thread I spoke about  [from Will] in the post above.  This was the first post from Will Freund just as he wrote it, with misspellings and all.)

Buhaha Useing the info from on the bust stop, also known as ash and Geo Stones Book I have found a simple and painless way to kill myself!All Im asking Before I do this, and threaten many websites.
Things Id like to have
Free money, Trouble getting jobs,and even in and out cant afford my expensive tastes, im a compulsive buyer now since theres nothing to do, I finish things to quickly.
Instant Friends
Ive always been a caregiver and A Volunteer But nobody wants to be my friend or after a conversation its so ackward I would say the average person lasts 3 days.Never had a friend my entire life and have no one on my cell phone besides my parents...had my cellphone since I was 16,I am 19 now.
My own residence with help getting cheap medication
Cant afford to live on my own,but having some place to live away from my onvercontroling abusive dad will be a positive to my life.

I absolutly hate anomity , but at the same time hate talking to people,anxiety.
I dont know im gona see where this goes its a dumb idea, im sure alot of people have tried it, thus this is why ytou dont see it
____________
(a member replied)
willfreuud1

Are You serious I had a cousin that kill himself this year.
____________
(a member replied)
If this is some form of sick joke, you seriously need help because going around threatening to kill yourself on public forums is disturbing. Go get some professional help please.
This is not the type of place to do this.
__________
(another member replied)
Knock yourself out. 
(this was edited after the murder/suicide by the poster himself.  He put this in its place)
edited because i love everyone
__________
(a member replied)
Don't kill yourself, buddy. You never know what will happen tomorrow. You might win the state lottery.
____________
(a member replied)
If you want to kill yourself you shouldn't announce it publicly. There are "samaritans" who scour the internet looking out for suicide threats.

Geo Stone's book is awesome, by the way.
_____________

(a member replied)
All I can say is there were many times at 19, I felt very dispondant....and way many more times since then that I have felt wonderful. Some days suck, but things have gotten better on a more consistant basis now that I am twice your age.

____________
 (a member quoted) 
"Things Id like to have
Free money"

(then replied)
Yeah me too. So what? I don't have any idea what you're trying to say.
_____________
(a member replied)
wtf?

Sorry I don't get this thread at all.
______________
(I posted this;)
Perhaps you're going through a low point? I've been depressed before. I didn't really want to die, I just wanted to stop the pain - is this maybe how you are feeling? PM me and let's talk, don't think about ways to die, you're right at a good age for positive changes to happen. I don't miss being 10 - 20 years of age, it was such a hard time in my life. Again, let's talk.

Remember, Depression is just anger without enthusiasm.
_________________
(another member)
Oh, has to be said.

Who is being the emotional vampire now willfreund?
(this member clearly thought this was the work of another member playing another cruel joke on the emotions of the WP members again - many had been played in previous weeks.)
__________________

(a member posted)
Its a good thing to reach out to others when one is in pain. Sometimes we lack the words to explain the pain we feel and this is one way to to it.

willfreund,
Life is hard sometimes. Is there anything we can do?

_____________
(another member replied)
Willfreund1,

Please re-consider what you want to do.I know that life can be pain in the ass(and often times it's ALOT more than just that).But...-sighs-Have you heard of Good Charlotte's song,"Hold on if you feel like letting go/hold on,it get's better than you know/don't stop searching you're one step closer/don't stop looking it's not over/hold on".Suicide was all I thought about in my bad time(ages 8-14)and I even attempted to at age 14.When I golt help and made new friends I got better.

If you ever need anybody to talk to,you can talk to me.Fell free to Instant message,Private Message,or email me anytime.
______________
(a member replied)
I find it hard to believe that money, friend etc is at the root of your problems willfreund, i think it is other things in your life that has led you to feel the need to buy cumpulsively and feel rejected and you should seek out help for that. Being popular or rich isnt what validates your life, it is that you are a life with feelings like anyone else that validates it.

If you are seriously contemplating suicide you should seek help immediately from someone you can trust or the nearest doctor or a hospital. If you hang on in there you will not be the first person who has looked back years later and thought "what was i thinking". Please pm me or someone else here if you feel there is no-one IRL you can talk to right now.

If you feel you cant talk about things right now but still want to kill yourself you should go to hospital where they can keep an eye on you. No matter how abusive your dad is do you seriously think you wouldnt hurt him at least (probably others) that he will outlive his baby boy? What about your mum is she around to talk to? Even if someone close to you seems to be ignoring you i think they will start to listen if you tell them how bad you really feel and how drastic things have gotten for you. You have lived this long without killing yourself so it cant be all bad.
____________
(Yet Another member posted the post below, thinking he was talking with a Troll - this member had posted things almost identical to this thread many times, trying to fool other members in some sort of a sick prank)
Suicide's the latest craze. Personally, I recommend you jump on the bandwagon without delay!

willfreund1 wrote:
Free money, Trouble getting jobs,and even in and out cant afford my expensive tastes, im a compulsive buyer now since theres nothing to do, I finish things to quickly.

A member wrote:
Dude! Welfare! It's the only way to go, and you'll feel proud of yourself, too!
willfreund1 wrote:
Instant Friends
Ive always been a caregiver and A Volunteer But nobody wants to be my friend or after a conversation its so ackward I would say the average person lasts 3 days.Never had a friend my entire life and have no one on my cell phone besides my parents...had my cellphone since I was 16,I am 19 now.
A member wrote:
Make some money, and buy friends! It's the American way! As for the cell phone problem, just add a ton of numbers from the phone book.
willfreund1 wrote:
My own residence with help getting cheap medication
Cant afford to live on my own,but having some place to live away from my onvercontroling abusive dad will be a positive to my life.

I absolutly hate anomity , but at the same time hate talking to people,anxiety.
A member inapropriately (and ignorantly) wrote:
Kill yourself somewhere where lots of people will see you then. You won't be anonymous anymore! You'll be in the local newspapers the next day!

willfreund1 wrote:
I dont know im gona see where this goes its a dumb idea, im sure alot of people have tried it, thus this is why ytou dont see it

(finally, the last line regarding Will's post, someone said)
Yeah, it is a dumb idea.
_
________________
(a member replied)
People,

Suicide is a serious thing. Can we discuss it in a serious manner?

Please.

_______________
(a member/moderator replied)
okay, people: whether or not you feel this is a serious threat, could you please refrain from making flippant comments. if someone is serious and feels that bad, the last thing they need is people taking the piss.

if it isn't serious, then please leave the Moderators to deal with it.

thank you.
willfreund1 - please ignore any sarcastic or flippant comments people have made, and don't take them to heart - they are about the people who posted them, not you.

if you're feeling that depressed, keep posting here - there are plenty of people who will listen, and people who know how horrendous it feels to be depressed, including me.
_______________
(a member replied)
It's funny and ironic how people here would make fun of someone feeling down when they've been in the same boat themselves. Piss off, online clique -- you're not special.

I would expect this attitude from a video game forum, but an online support group for people with autism?

___________
At this time there were no responses from Will and everyone involved in this thread were divided as to whether this was another sick prank or someone crying out for help.  Will's confusing way of writing was one of the reasons we were questioning his motives.


(a member replied)
It's pretty clear that wilfreund1 was not being serious. His first word was "Buhaha." He also titled the topic "Suicide Threat!" Notice it was a threat (as in directed to our attention), not an intention of committing actual suicide. The poor spelling is reminiscent of that person who was imitating other posters, really.  (the same member that pulls these sort of pranks)
__________________
(another member replied)
That's but your own personal assumption -- and assumptions aren't always accurate.

And why should it matter to you if he's lying or not? You made it blatantly obvious that you didn't care for the guy's woes and shortcomings, so why know?
___________
(a member replied)
Buhaha could mean that he is feeling that it is a way out and will serve those in his family etc who didnt treat him well enough right when they are devestated at his loss. The subject matter is true, if he is mentioning killing himself he is indeed threatening it and dont forget aspies commonly tell things quite precise and brutally honest about what is happening.

If it does turn out to be a troll job it would be the worst one in history because the things he has said arent the best to get sympathy (certainly judging by the responses by some) and he did say that he would see how it goes not saying it was definate.

I will be just as outraged and disgusted as anyone else if it is a troll but isnt it better to give someone who mentions something as serious as this the benefit of the doubt as opposed to being a possible contributing factor to a human beings death?
__________
(another member replied)
Well said
____________
(a member replied)
He's dramatizing his woes. He's the same guy who's been here before using many other names in all likelihood. I'm not going to respond with serious concern to someone who's joking.
(guess who?)
______________
(one member replied)
Leave it to the mods, they have members ip adresses and so have a better chance of telling whether or not this is the same guy you mentioned. Clearly Bobaloo knows of this person. Someone i know hung himself after at least one of his mates thought his threat was a joke. He wasnt laughing down at the cause of death inquest. I would rather fall for this joke a hundred times than ignore it once and live with it on my conscience. Anyone who would threaten it for their amusement must have psychological problems anyway.
____________________
(another member replied)
"buahaah" indicates a joke, in my opinion.
__________________
(a member replied)
have y'all forgotten that this is a forum for people with COMMUNICATIONAL DIFFICULTIES?
the post could be a joke, or it could be serious and the person could have just difficulty posting. thing is, you can't know which it is, do you really want to take the risk of making someone who's suicidal feel worse? if it's a troll, his punishment is that he's a pathetic a******. if it's for real, well, offer help or ignore but i don't think blatantly accusing him of/bashing him for being a troll is a good idea here.
________________
(a member replied)
Yes, you guys are right. Suicide's too serious a matter to joke off even if it seems like the other party is joking.

(Will finally replies)
And to all the people saying im fake mumm ask around in irc chat ive been like this for a while.IF I had some goods to offer like money etc Id share em out but atm I dont wanna be ratted out IF things dont go right.Maybe what scares me the most is things are going in the right direction , socialy and mentally. shrug
__________
(a member replied)
I never said that

I lost a cousin that killed himself this year.
_________________
(Will wrote)
IM off to see the wizard Just wished my parents awerent so controling thats was the final push they took away my "herbs" my guns and my thermite (explosive) I would be in fear the rest of my life and I suck at getting jobs. I hope im not like martin.He was at our school And would have suizures every day. One day when he was sitting with us he had asuizire very bda, he was rushed home, left there and died nobody ever said anything about hi, I kinda worry about that , but alas when your dead you cant have a ego. BTW ____________, Man with that freaky look Your very mean, I was gona read the rest of the posts, i was reading newest to last but you stoped me.
(Will later replied)
funny what luck my moms giving me 300$ and my dad let me keep the lock picks, STil lthey dont love me they attack me all the time, its probably aspergers that makes me think that but o well
(he later wrote this;)
no clue what you said . Come on there no time in cofusing a suicideal person
________________
(a member replied - not realizing that Will was probably not speaking to him)
I never stopped You could have read the rest of Your Posts.

I'm SORRY for Your friend that had seizures and died.

I know it feels real bad how can I help.
(again worried, this member posts)
I was not trying to CONFUSE YOU
(another member replies)
So You have some money now

______________
(Will replied)
I still have time to be ok guys. Tyhis is my last post for tonight im gona be ok, parents home

kjkvc (not known why this was edited by Will, possibly one of the many graphic suicide pictures or details of how to kill yourself)
(in a later post Will posts, it seems he is trying to end his life while posting on WP)

Will writes this unclear post;
damn tight lososinh
not your fault kerry
"Fds" (another edit substituted with meaningless letters by Will.   He was told to edit previous items by the moderators because of graphic pics.   He complied without protest)
____________
(a member asks Will)
Would You like to do this through private messages?
(Will rarely PM's anyone although many try to contact him...which adds to the suspicion that he is pulling an elaborate sick prank)
___________
(a member replied)
Will, you seriously need to get professional help, noone on this forum can make you not feel suicidal. We are not trained to deal with that situation. Honestly go to your parents, tell them how you feel or talk to some other adult. You want to get serious attention those are the people you should be talking to for help. You're obviously needing some form of attention as per your posting of the website and those pictures but threats to people about committing suicide and saying that as you're typing you're doing it and then saying you'll post later doesn't make your pleas heard by those that can be there in your physical location to help you. Best suggestion is call 911 or something or a mental health clinic or something.

I honestly find your seeming way of trying to get attention with a suicide threat rather disturbing myself as I've known people that have done it and I feel bad for them too. When a person commits suicide, they don't just hurt themselves, they hurt others that do care about them and would rather have seen them go to a professional for help which is what you need to do for yourself.

_____________
(a member replies)
This honeslty feels like an incoherent version of Savetoby.com only with a human instead of a rabbit. I can really understand why NeantHuman responded the way that he did. It's like this perons is holding himself hostage and wants a ransom. But the later incoherency of the posts makes me wonder just how incapacitated they are.

__________________

(a member replies)
This whole thing is really scary to me. I wish there was something I could do.
During this ordeal, a few WP members seemingly just as distraught as the one above, PM the mods with the same thoughts and expressions.
__________
(a member replied)
WantFriend, forgive the suspicion of trolling. We have had too MUCH of it lately from all directions. It is very hard to tell when someone is only joking and so everyone is really paranoid right now. It isn't you at all. It's the trolls we've had in the past which makes it difficult to trust newer posters and less common threads.


Thank you to all trolls out there (sarcasm). This is what has come of your trolling.
_____________
(another member wonders)
Why on earth did he decide to come here out of the blue, though? He'd only made one post before making this suicide threat. It's also conspicuously close to my post "WrongPlanet.net: Forum Dramatica." Believe me I know there are trolls who would do something like this (although I would never). I'm not saying he is a troll anymore, but there was one, galatea, who made a lot of misspellings, too:
galatea - from PMs - wrote:
do me a favor neanthumain and create a thread called "was henry viii an aspie?" that would be a hoot
----
no im just an inteligennt persoun who in alignmant with u can transphorm this forum into a place of inspiration brimming with creativatiy and genious
----
u and i could be big we could be powerful we could be rich
together we could conspire to further our own wealths
those who succeed in politics are those who befriend

wanted - "was henry viii an aspie?" thread
in return for - make a demand
----
u c wat i can do dnt underestamate me againe

____________
willfreund1 wrote:
All Im asking Before I do this, and threaten many websites.
_______________________________
This is likely the most confusing statement I read in this poster's first post... to me it sounds like the person either has serious issues that need a professional's help or is trying to get attention/joking at the cost of others. From my point of view, if I was considering suicide, I wouldn't be announcing it to everyone on the net... they can't do much for you and secondly, I wouldn't threaten to put the threat on many websites. I'd do it discreetly and wouldn't be putting 'supposed' details and pictures on the net. It's like trying to blackmail people into getting what he/she wants in the first post.
 Secondly none of us can give him anything he's asked/demanded for in his original post, family could but why choose a group of people he either barely knows or doesn't know? Honestly, suicide hurts more than just the person that is going to do it, it hurts family and friends. I hope the moderators seriously evaluate what to do about this thread. It's not about making fun of the user but if the user is seriously getting a kick out of this it can do harm to the community. That is not something that needs to happen. If the person needs serious help, the most anyone on here can do where we don't know the actual location of the person or way to contact the user's parents is to suggest to get some adult help be it through parents or a helpline or another professional in their area. It's just something about this thread that has me unsettled... especially where that quote was concerned. I may be naive at times but there are times where somethings need to be questionned more deeply.
__________
(a member replied)
Willfreund, have you thought about calling a suicide hotline (like 1-800-784-2433 in the USA) or talking to a school counsellor (if you have one)? You seriously need to find some people who are kinder and more likely to believe you than the ones on this site.
It's like this perons is holding himself hostage and wants a ransom.
(another reply)
So what if he is? Maybe all other attempts to get help have failed.

I really wish people would back off on the accusing posts. There are a lot of reasons willfreund could be speaking openly on the net about suicide. Maybe the anonymity makes it safe. Maybe he doesn't know any other way to convince people he's for real. Maybe he wants his last actions to make a difference in the world.

___________________
(me, trying to understand why some people are reacting as they are)

Quote:
Willfreund, have you thought about calling a suicide hotline (like 1-800-784-2433 in the USA) or talking to a school counsellor (if you have one)? You seriously need to find some people who are kinder and more likely to believe you than the ones on this site.
(My Reply:)
Excellent advice, really. Just a quick observation on how some people react to a terrible situation;

I think some folks neurotypical or not have their own way of handling stressful situations. They are not always acceptable ways.

Denial is one way some folks react to a situation they can't perceive. Anger is another way. Neither is really acceptable to the situation but I have noticed both seem to be a common reaction. My oldest son gets mad at me, everytime I become ill, even though I'm sure he knows I do not wish to be ill....I believe the thought of me dying is something he fears and his reaction (for some reason) is anger.

I am not trying to condone the seemingly uncaring and inconsiderate things that people say and do - how many times have you heard a story of someone standing on the edge of a tall building threatening to jump...some people below are screaming "Don't Do It!" others are saying "Jump! Jump!" - there are cruel people in this world, none of us can deny this, but I'd like to believe that those WP members that felt as if they were being tricked or those that spoke unkindly had some reason behind their actions. As Human Beings, We don't always react the way we are expected to. I wish the members on this site would just not comment if they cannot do so in a respectable way but this expectation is very unrealistic.
____________
(a member replied)
You are VERY RIGHT

People, People, Come On, Come On!!!!!

Even myself I thought of suicide, many times myself, and come more times very close to accomplishing it myself. I am glad that I AM STILL A LIVE TODAY................................
_____________
(another member replies)
I am very glad you are alive today too. I hope you can help Willfrued, even if it is through PM's.
____________
(a member replied)
Suicide is just another cowardly saying of "I give up"; don't do it. I've thought of it before, but then I think, if I would have done it, I wouldn't have had lots of good things happen. I have God, I still have pain, but I still have a vision, a goal, life's race to run. I'm not stopping you from doing this act, but do you want to be a coward?

_________________
(a member replied)
Yes, WantFriend, ________'s idea is a good one. You need to talk to someone.

I've found some of the hardest times in life aren't just because life, itself, is shitty but because I do not/cannot talk to anyone about it. The words just boil around in the stomach almost and, unsaid, make life ten times harder than it is.
_____________
(a member replied)
I work with at risk youth and I have seen this many times. Please consider going to a local hospital who has a psychiatrist on staff. A good assessment will help you to find the right people to assist you. They can refer you to a therapist as well as prescribe some meds for the short run until you are feeling better and in a better frame of mind.
Any threat should be taken very seriously until the proper professionals can determine the seriousness of the individual.
I hope you know that there are many people who are out here and want you to feel better and work through your feelings in a healthy manner. Please reach out to a medical professional.

________________
(a member replied)
I agree with every word you said
_______________
(yet another member asks)
Got aim?
___________
(Three days have went by on this emotional rollercoaster, Will finally replies)
Im not looking to be talked to im looking for anwsers


Will goes on to quote another member;

Quote:
WantFriend, forgive the suspicion of trolling.  We have had too MUCH of it lately from all directions.  It is very hard to tell when someone is only joking and so everyone is really paranoid right now.  It isn't you at all.  It's the trolls we've had in the past which makes it difficult to trust newer posters and less common threads.
(Will replies...)
I get the feeling of being a troll all my life, anybody that looks at me is scared and not friendly to me , I dont know why.
______________
(a member replied)
You have a friend willfreund1 it is good to hear from you!!!
____________
(another member replies)
I'm glad you posted too.
___________
(yet another member says)
I am so glad to see you have posted again Willfruend. I have been thinking about you.
___________
(a member trying to befriend will says)
Willfreund, wissen Sie Deutsch?
(you see, we had no idea where his SN came from little did we know Willfreund was litterally his name.)
____________________________________
(Back to the talk with other mods)
(one moderator comments on the moderators only thread)
Yuck.

I also find the "knock yourself out comment" inapproprate but not to the level of an official warning. Perhaps a PM asking him to delete or edit the message?

__________
(me, speaking to one mod about the PM I sent to the member that made the "knock yourself out" comment.)
This is what I sent to ___________
Quote:
hi,________.

Could you please edit your post to willfreund1 on this thread:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6074

"Knock yourself out" is inappropriate and a little tough on someone that already seems to be hurting. It's kind of like that saying about kicking a man while he's down. This is not a warning or anything so drastic, just a request. Your cooperation is appreciated.

Please PM me if you have any questions.

Patti
a.k.a monastic (my online name everywhere)
Wrong Planet Moderator
_______________
(a mod replied)
Excellent letter, Monastic! But he ignored it.(at least  it was ignored until Will's suicide)
_______________________
(a mod replied)
yep to both __________ and monastic. i'll be keeping an eye on the thread when i'm about, too.

it's just like being at school with unruly kids...
______________
(this is me talking again to the other moderators - I am also having a few doubts about the claims of suicide at this point.  I am also emotionally distraught and disturbed at the thought of what these posts are doing to the younger crowd that frequents WrongPlanet)
I say this;
__________________ has made it clear that he does not believe that this suicide threat is real. I can see why he feels this way as he has done this type of false posting and now wonders if anything talked about on Wrong Planet is real or merely someone having fun at anothers expense.

The cryptic last line from willfreund1, makes me wonder if it is a sick joke too;
Quote:
I dont know im gona see where this goes its a dumb idea, im sure alot of people have tried it, thus this is why ytou dont see it
____________________
(I said...)
I really hope that this isn't (once again) someones idea of fun because I am fed up with the flippant way some are treating others emotions. Suicide is not a joking matter as I know many of you agree. It really upsets me to see someone picked on or treated badly and for a childish prankster to take some kind of sick pleasure in causing others distress, I have no tolerance for this type of person.
When someone is crying out for help because they are seriously thinking of suicide, it takes a tremendous toll on me (because I think of my own past) and despite this wear on my senses, I feel a need to help because, by some miracle I made it through such despair and I want to help others do the same.

If this thread is found to be just another "joke" I want all of you to know that I will be too distraught to deal with the perpetrator fairly (as a moderator) without wanting to scream & lash out at them for their uncaring, callous actions. I will hold in my anger but I have a feeling that <another member> will not be so kind to them.

Does anyone else see this type of joking around as a ticking time bomb or am I just way too old to find humor in such things? I am so very sick of Trolls
(after posting "how-to commit suicide threads and various pictures of suicides in progress, I was becoming frustrated with Will because there were young children on this forum too and the owner of the site was the only one that could ban members and he wasn't making himself "available" to the moderators - our sole job was to be Alex's "eyes" and to report to him anyone that was not abiding by the rules of WP, that is all we were allowed to do.)
_______________
(another mod comments)
Regarding WIllfreud, I cannot tell if he is faking or not. This is not the first time he has done this (although it is the first time in the forums).

He has done this several times on IRC and has also passed on information on how to commit suicide to other users. One of the users passed the evidence to me but did not want to make a big deal of it so I have not reported it before now.

______________________
(another mod replies and quotes me saying)
"Does anyone else see this type of joking around as a ticking time bomb or am I just way too old to find humor in such things?"



It really bothers me too. Jokes like that cause so much more harm than good.
______________________
(later, a moderator asks for help)
OK, can someone do me a favour as I am not good at spliting posts.

In the suicide threat thread, can someone split out the message will Willfreud1 posted images of someone's (I do not know if that is him or not) trying to commit suicide by hanging and inform him that those are not appropriate.

Also, can you tell him that if he needs help, he needs to look for something a little more professional than what we can offer on this site IMHO.

Thank You
_______________
(me)
Drat! I've never split a post before! I wish I could help. If they are truly pictures of someone trying to kill themself (I can't bring myself to look) then can't we just edit them and take them off altogether? This would be in the best interest of the children of WP and should not be seen as censorship but as a protection of the younger members as this whole thing has been distressing enough on them.

(I finally got up the courage to look at the pics that Will had posted  - the owner of the site had told us not to edit anything out of the forum but this was too much.)
(I replied)
Let it be on my head. I am editing the pictures out. They are not appropriate for our younger members. I will send an IM to the poster to let him know. Sorry, if I'm making a mistake in taking this action.
___________
(another mod took on the task and did this before me, though.  They replied;)
I split them off.


The mod went on to ask me;
Monastic, have you contacted the orginal poster yet? I don't want us both too. If not, I'll send a PM. Just let me know.

Thanks
____________
(I replied to this...)
This is all I have sent to him;
Quote:
willfreund1,

Hello. I want you to know that I am here if you just need someone to talk with. I have also thought (past tense) that suicide was the best option (I have the scars to prove it) but I do not feel this way anymore. Maybe we could talk and find out why you wish to leave this life? I'll leave it up to you. (This is said as a possible friend)

Please understand that Wrong Planet is made up of many age groups. This talk of suicide has been quite stressful on our younger members and so I am asking you to not post any more pictures of suicide attempts as this is not appropriate for our younger members. (This is said as a moderator on WP)

I want you to know that I care about what happens to you and I'm sure you have heard from other members stating the same. Life can suck sometimes and people can be cruel but it isn't all bad. As your life is now, you possibly do not feel in control of your destiny but 19 is an age of big possibilities. Give yourself a chance at being the one in control. It is scary, I'll agree, but it is way better when you are making the decisions about your life. PM me if you'd like.....the choice is yours.

Patti
a.k.a. monastic
WP moderator

It was more a friendship-type letter than a moderator letter. Thanks for splitting the thread ______.

(Will PM'ed me back and only asked me why he hadn't been banned from WP yet.)
______________
The mod posted;
Okay, thank you.

I will send a moderator type PM letting him know I care and am concerned about him and think that talking to the people here if he'd like AND to a trained professional is probably best. And that I also had to remove his picture. I understand why he would want to post them yet this isn't the right place for it.

Edited to add a copy of the PM:

I hope today is going better for you. I'm concerned for you and if I can do anything for you, please let me know. I hope it helped to post on Wrong Planet. ______________ wrote a good reply about seeking professional help. I second the thought. We can only do so much on line.

I understand why you would would want to post the picture of your sucide attempt yet this isn't the right place for it. I had to remove it.

Again, I hope today, or tomarrow, is better.
______________
(As moderators, we began to doubt each other.  One mod asked;)
I understand the images being too graphic, but why did willfreund's other posts get removed? I know mods have sent him PM's, but we don't even know if he checks his PM's. I know the other posts make it clear he is attempting suicide, but I don't think we need to protect the other members of the site from knowing that. Some of them are genuinely concerned about him.

What is it going to look like when willfruend's posts are removed but ________'s and _______'s are not?
______________
(one mod's reply)
I removed them, so I'll try to answer your questions.

Perhaps they should not have been removed. I saw a difference between saying one was going to committe suicude and discribing how the knife you tried it with was too dull or whatever. The verbal discription seemed too graphic to me, even more so than the pictures. Do we feel that was an error? Maybe moving the topic to mature would have been better?

I appreciate the feedback so I can learn.
The mod went on to say;
I'm not sure I understand your question on _______'s and ________'s posts.
The only reference I saw to the pictures was on <another member> and I thought it still read okay even with the pictures gone.
(the mods were split on what is acceptable "free speech" and what is too graphic for all ages.)
_________________
(one mod argued)
personally, i think _________ was right to remove them - they could be extremely distressing to some members here. even if their explicit descriptions alone were okay, being a "witness" to this sort of thing can be very disturbing for some people.
__________
(another mod agreed)
I agree they could be distressing... I just would have moved them to Mature, alongside the other suicide thread, before deleting them entirely.

What I meant with ________ and _________ was that their posts are antagonizing/disbelieving towards willfreund, and I wouldn't be surprised if he interprets that as some sort of rejection - ie he's being moderated, but they're not. He hasn't complained yet, though, so I could be wrong. I don't actually think ________'s or ________'s posts should be removed (an unofficial warning, maybe, but certainly not removal). I just wanted to point out a potential bombshell.
_________________
(Still, no help or advice from the owner of the site, ALEX PLANK just complete and utter silence)
Another mod replied;
Its a valid point. I'm just not sure where to do with it. Their posts were cruel and uncalled for but not necessarily against the terms of service.
(I never saw these particular comments that were deleted.  I have only heard that they were cruel and taunting in nature, but I cannot be sure - I do trust the judgement of the mod that deleted them though, she is not a jump first think later type person unless it is necessary)
________________
Will began to do a "countdown to his suicide" or as he put it, "since I die and am at peace"  It was done in a Timeline fashion with each day ticking off.
He appeared obsessed with talking about death and suicide but would have moments where he would talk on other threads with people about other things or Will would be a visitor in the WP live chatroom (I am told) and he would seem just fine.
On Oct. 18, one mod replied;
"My drift is that he is hell bent on killing himself. It was link to that same count down ticker he has for his signature

If that's not the case, and he's just bluffing all of us, either way, I think we have a serious issue here that all of us need to address right now."
______________
(One mod commented)
Agreed.

How do we address it.

He's posting again...drawing attention to his ticker
(the mod was talking about the countdown Will created to chronicle his own demise - whenever we would delete one, he'd put another on a post elsewhere)
____________
(I asked after a exhausting night of watching the forums for disruptions)
How can we stop him from putting these on everything he posts?

I don't want him to commit suicide but we cannot continue to allow him to disrupt this forum.
Not only is he counting down to his suicide but he is wanting to take members down with him. This is wrong and it has been pointed out to him. He has been told by many of us what is allowed and what isn't allowed and yet wishes to disrupt the site.

Is there any way he can be suspended until he realizes that this type of thing will not be tolerated here? If he is allowed to continue with his countdown, I fear we might have copy-cat posters of this sort.

I know when it comes to him contemplating suicide, there is nothing any of us here at WP can do to change their minds....they have to decide for themselves to live or perhaps as many of us have suggested, willfreund1 or his family should seek help from the medical field.
____________
At this point many of the mods were trying to find out Wills name (we still didn't know if Will was his real name) and trying to find out where in the world he lived and who his parents were.  I think one mod even called local law enforcement but without details of where this person lived or even the persons name, they treated the whole thing as just another internet incident.  It was as if no one believed anything serious was happening. Still nothing done by Alex Plank, still silent even with moderators emailing him about Will.

_________________
A mod replied;
I don't know if sig lines can be "turned off" but I agree, if we can't get him to stop we need a admin to ban him.

Warning first though? And an admin can ban him if he doesn't change in a few hours?

__________
A WP Administrator Sent this PM to Will;
Dear willfreund1,

I, as an admin, have removed your signature counting down to your suicide because it is not condusive to this site and others find it offensive. If you put the signature back up, your account will be banned from WP.

Secondly, you are being informed that assisting someone in trying to kill themselves if they are suicidal or offering any services to that effect is also against the WP rules.

Finally, I do not know whether you are bluffing or not. I cannot say. I do suggest however that you seek out professional help outside of this website.

If you have any other questions, feel free to contact myself or any of the other mods. If you do not agree with what I have done, please contact Alex.

Thank You



The Admin. Received this PM from Will that evening;
Quote:
interesting, Well keep a watch out for me im gona be trying things in this forum

(The Administrator told the moderators;)

I guess by the time I am done with my morning route, I will be banning him. Better check for IPs because I will probably have to IP ban him rather than name ban him.
______________
Another Admin. Said;
"I'm very confused by his mood swings.

A week ago, out of the blue, he sents me a PM that said, in so many words, who the F are you to be a mod. This morning, again out of the blue, I get a polite request to read his post about his dog.

I'm confused."
________________
Some mods still feverishly worked to find out the identity of  the person we only knew as willfreund1
On October 30th, one of the administrators posted this in the mods only forum;
"a heads up, people:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6849

if this is willfreund, we need to keep an eye on the thread, to see how people respond - feelings might run high, especially confusion, shock, maybe even guilt (have had to deal with stuff like this before). with any luck, it won't happen, but just in case.

and we need to be absolutely clear that no-one here is in any way accountable or responsible for anything which has happened. any feelings of "if only i'd/we'd done x..." are normal, but there isn't anything anyone could have done to prevent this."
_________
One Admin. wrote;
"OK,

I am guessing that this is Willfreund1 for a couple of reasons. One, the story is true. I verified it with the LA Times. Two, his IP links had oc in them. It could mean either Orange County (or Oklahoma City for all we know).

In either case, we have to act for when the witch hunt gets underway."

....and a witch hunt it was.  I feel under the circumstances and being who we were, we did the best we could with the abilities we had.  Only ALEX PLANK had the ability to ban Will or turn him in to the authorities and he kept silent when he should have taken action.
The experience has changed me forever.  I was at least "coming out of my shell" a bit more, at least online and now, it's everything I can do to force myself to speak to others online, I mostly lurk.  I doubt myself alot and my advice & can't help but feel responsible even though in my heart I really doubt we could have changed Will's mind on his suicide - I just wish we could have prevented others from being killed. 

I believe the wrong medications and parents/doctors not listening to Will when he tried to let them know that he was taking something that wasn't working was the ultimate reason things went so terribly wrong.  He had decided on suicide long before he came to WrongPlanet, I believe.  He just hadn't worked out the time or the details, yet.

So, I'm sure you have your own feelings on what should have, would have, could have been.  It's been years since this tragic day but still I think of what could have happened, what we could have done that could have changed the course of  history for these poor people and one very troubled young man.   All ALEX PLANK could think of with a sort of Sick-Enjoyment, was how many people would visit WrongPlanet after this tragic event.  I will forever remember this about Alex. 

[TheoK]

I know who Freund was.

[thepeaguy]

I got no sympathy for some weak fool who kills other people just because his life sucked.

EDIT: No, I'm not going to read your post, Cuntaway.

[Christopher McCandless]

I like Peaguy. I've joined his forum.

[The Member Formerly Known As Sophist]

I got no sympathy for some weak fool who kills other people just because his life sucked.

Then you've got an awfully funny way of showing it.

Gosh, the way you've changed your nick and avatar and the way you posted about it since then, one could mistakenly conclude you thought he was pretty cool and didn't give a shit about the two people he shot before he turned the gun on himself.

Put me on ignore. Much easier with a topic like this where you can't just call me a lezzer or a fuckwit and have done with it. 

[Christopher McCandless]

I got no sympathy for some weak fool who kills other people just because his life sucked.

Then you've got an awfully funny way of showing it.

Gosh, the way you've changed your nick and avatar and the way you posted about it since then, one could mistakenly conclude you thought he was pretty cool and didn't give a shit about the two people he shot before he turned the gun on himself.

Then those people would be guilty of making assumptions. If people made less assumptions within our society as a whole, do you think Mr Freund's life would have ended in such a horrible manner.

Put me on ignore. Much easier with a topic like this where you can't just call me a lezzer or a fuckwit and have done with it. 

Its pretty weak of you to fold at that kind of argument. In a debate the frivolities should be consigned to the sidelines, rather than being allowed to take centre stage.

[Callaway]

Put me on ignore. Much easier with a topic like this where you can't just call me a lezzer or a fuckwit and have done with it. 

Its pretty weak of you to fold at that kind of argument. In a debate the frivolities should be consigned to the sidelines, rather than being allowed to take centre stage.

Peaguy had Sophist on ignore before, Hadron.  He pointed that out in this thread.  Sophist saying that is not folding.

[The Member Formerly Known As Sophist]

Then those people would be guilty of making assumptions. If people made less assumptions within our society as a whole, do you think Mr Freund's life would have ended in such a horrible manner.

That's a pretty broad statement. Enjoy changing the topic much? Freund died because he turned the shot gun on himself and pulled the trigger. The same for his two victims. Many variables brought Freund to such a state-- and DON'T ASSUME that I don't also consider him a victim in this as well.

I don't hate Freund; I felt sorry for him that he was in pain-- and I still feel sorry for him.

HOWEVER, the way in which Pea chose to show his disapproval of Freund's actions looks more like Pea instead wanted to mock the situation and make light of the fact that 3 people died who didn't have to.

Put me on ignore. Much easier with a topic like this where you can't just call me a lezzer or a fuckwit and have done with it. 

Its pretty weak of you to fold at that kind of argument. In a debate the frivolities should be consigned to the sidelines, rather than being allowed to take centre stage.

Uh, k. Pea's the one who said he put ME on ignore, not the other way around, sweetheart. Been reading the thread carefully have we?:

Too bad you're fucking ignored, babes.