The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz

[odeon]

Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for?  Are you in complete denial?  If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism?  I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite. 

Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book.  I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.

It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.

[benjimanbreeg]

When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.

And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.

And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.

Your ignorance is embarrassing    When did you first start, yesterday?  The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War.  Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961.  His figure in that was 5.1 million.  Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million.  Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same    Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it.  As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp.  Why lie?

It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book.  Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs.  An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.

I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.

But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.

I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.

Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.

My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).

But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.

See that's better, you made some kind of effort.  Wasn't so hard was it mate? 

You seem very naive for an OAP.

So that's what you base it on, hearsay?!  Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession".  I guess that's good enough.  "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously.  Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews. 

So no one knows the number, which is clear.   Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world.  Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production.  Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one.  It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously.  As they say "there's no business like Shoa business".  Speilberg should be locked up.

And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38.  They seem to like that number   



I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many.  "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.

 " (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)." 


Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust.  She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway.  Lol, no course not, no agenda!  That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide.  He didn't want other victims being spoken of.  And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.

So your "proof" seems to be mostly to...

* Rely on authorities (in your case Finkelstein)
* Distrust anything having to do with Israel (an Israeli scholar can be ignored because they have rotten politicians)
* Assume the SS officer must have been tortured (I notice how you don't actually try to prove anything)
* Question Spielberg's whole project based on one testimony
* Use catchy phrases like "no business like shoa business", no doubt parroted, name calling, etc
* Muddy the waters by questioning the ethnic group by producing irrelevant statements

Did I forget something?

Fail.

You couldn't counter a single thing I put in that last post, but in you're world, that's success?   

Well at least your tried, a bit...

*I don't rely on "Finkelstein", I rely on the official sources he provides. 
* Not at all, I trust Israeli scholars like Illan Pappe, Miko Peled and Avi Shlaim.
* Are you denying the torturing during the trials?
* Not "one testimony".  As I said, she wasn't the only one.  And it is clear to see that Speilberg has paid her to lie.  There's endless bullshit.  African Americans claiming they liberated a camp they weren't even near.
* You're above all that.
* What?

I love it how you still don't prove anything. Poor kook.

What would you like me to prove?  Any requests?  Can you prove the Holocaust?

[benjimanbreeg]

If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries. 

Priceless.

The truth is, yes. 

[benjimanbreeg]

Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for?  Are you in complete denial?  If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism?  I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite. 

Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book.  I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.

It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.

Tell me some things i've been wrong about, in detail?

[Yuri Bezmenov]

Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. 

I can't be arsed. Read the damn book yourself.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

[Yuri Bezmenov]

[benjimanbreeg]

Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. 

I can't be arsed. Read the damn book yourself.

Because you can't.  Thanks for clarifying. 

[benjimanbreeg]

Surprise surprise, Shermer is a ancient alien slug, and all his alleged, usual skeptical and rational credentials go out the window, when speaking about the subject. 

[Yuri Bezmenov]

Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. 

I can't be arsed. Read the damn book yourself.

Because you can't.  Thanks for clarifying.

I can, I just won't, because you're just not worth it.   

Surprise surprise, Shermer is a ancient alien slug, and all his alleged, usual skeptical and rational credentials go out the window, when speaking about the subject. 

                    

[odeon]

When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.

And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.

And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.

Your ignorance is embarrassing    When did you first start, yesterday?  The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War.  Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961.  His figure in that was 5.1 million.  Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million.  Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same    Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it.  As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp.  Why lie?

It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book.  Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs.  An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.

I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.

But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.

I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.

Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.

My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).

But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.

See that's better, you made some kind of effort.  Wasn't so hard was it mate? 

You seem very naive for an OAP.

So that's what you base it on, hearsay?!  Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession".  I guess that's good enough.  "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously.  Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews. 

So no one knows the number, which is clear.   Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world.  Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production.  Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one.  It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously.  As they say "there's no business like Shoa business".  Speilberg should be locked up.

And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38.  They seem to like that number   



I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many.  "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.

 " (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)." 


Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust.  She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway.  Lol, no course not, no agenda!  That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide.  He didn't want other victims being spoken of.  And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.

So your "proof" seems to be mostly to...

* Rely on authorities (in your case Finkelstein)
* Distrust anything having to do with Israel (an Israeli scholar can be ignored because they have rotten politicians)
* Assume the SS officer must have been tortured (I notice how you don't actually try to prove anything)
* Question Spielberg's whole project based on one testimony
* Use catchy phrases like "no business like shoa business", no doubt parroted, name calling, etc
* Muddy the waters by questioning the ethnic group by producing irrelevant statements

Did I forget something?

Fail.

You couldn't counter a single thing I put in that last post, but in you're world, that's success?   

Well at least your tried, a bit...

*I don't rely on "Finkelstein", I rely on the official sources he provides. 
* Not at all, I trust Israeli scholars like Illan Pappe, Miko Peled and Avi Shlaim.
* Are you denying the torturing during the trials?
* Not "one testimony".  As I said, she wasn't the only one.  And it is clear to see that Speilberg has paid her to lie.  There's endless bullshit.  African Americans claiming they liberated a camp they weren't even near.
* You're above all that.
* What?

I love it how you still don't prove anything. Poor kook.

What would you like me to prove?  Any requests?  Can you prove the Holocaust?

I don't have to. It's been done over and over again. If you're saying it didn't happen, you have some work ahead of you.

Poor kook.

[odeon]

If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries. 

Priceless.

The truth is, yes.

Show me a country that locks you up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And before you start moving the goalposts, read what you wrote.

[odeon]

Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for?  Are you in complete denial?  If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism?  I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite. 

Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book.  I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.

It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.

Tell me some things i've been wrong about, in detail?

For example, some minor details, just now, like that the Holocaust didn't happen. Because that is what you are saying, isn't it? Or that some countries will lock you up if you question a number.

And an honorary mention goes to your insinuations about torture at Nuremberg--they must have been the worst torturers in history, considering how few confessions they managed to produce.

The origins of ISIS and who finances them is in another thread but nevertheless goes into this category.

Etc. Read your posts.

[odeon]

Surprise surprise, Shermer is a ancient alien slug, and all his alleged, usual skeptical and rational credentials go out the window, when speaking about the subject.

Seriously? This is how you argue? 

[odeon]

Thought of you, Benji.

http://debunkingdenialism.com/2013/09/14/the-intellectually-barren-wasteland-of-holocaust-denial/