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Offline Parts

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Sweden joins the US
« on: June 18, 2008, 07:34:20 PM »
Quote
Sweden adopts law allowing official eavesdropping

By MALIN RISING and LOUISE NORDSTROM, Associated Press Writers 52 minutes ago

Sweden's Parliament narrowly approved a law Wednesday that gives authorities sweeping powers to eavesdrop on all e-mail and telephone traffic that crosses the Nordic nation's borders.

Critics have slammed the law as an invasion of privacy and an infringement on civil liberties. Hundreds of protesters gathered outside Parliament Wednesday, some handing out copies of George Orwell's novel "1984," about a fictional futuristic police state.

The right-leaning government's slim majority helped secure 143-138 approval, despite strong opposition from left-leaning parties led by Social Democrats.

Supporters argued the law — which takes effect in January — will help prevent terrorist attacks. It gives Swedish defense officials the right to scan international phone calls, e-mails and faxes for sensitive keywords without a court order.

The companies Swedish telecom TeliaSonera AB and Google Inc. have called the measure the most far-reaching eavesdropping plan in Europe, comparable to a U.S. government program.

After the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush granted intelligence officers the power to monitor — without court approval_ international calls and e-mails between people in the United States and suspected terrorists overseas. Last July's Protect America Act extended that authority, but it expired Feb. 15, and a replacement law is being debated.

Many European countries have gradually increased government surveillance powers, including wiretapping and police searches, in a move to combat terror plots.

In Sweden currently, e-mail and phone surveillance requires a court order if police suspect a crime, although the intelligence agency is allowed to spy on airborne signals, such as radio and satellite traffic.

The European Federation of Journalists argued that electronic monitoring of phone and e-mail communications contravenes international and European legal standards.

The government rejects claims the law will give it unlimited powers to spy on its own citizens. It maintains it is interested only in international traffic and will filter out domestic communications.

Four ruling coalition lawmakers forced additions to the bill intended to protect individual privacy. But critics said those changes, which included monitoring by independent institutions, don't satisfy their objections to the law.

"This is just as absurd as before," said Per Strom of The New Welfare Foundation think tank. "It will still create a society characterized by self-censorship and anxiety."

___

Associated Press writer Sara Sundelius in Stockholm contributed to this report.



So hows it feel odeon?  This sort of thing is ridiculous and I never thought it would spread from the US to Sweden of all places.  Here we have the ACLU fighting it, they even called me for a donation today, who will fight it over there?  We are going to end up in a world of monitored communications where the government will know all and people within it will hold a powerful advantage against all that oppose them.  They say it won't be abused yeah right  ::)  And the world moves toward more control for those in power :grrr:
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2008, 07:51:34 PM »
Quote
Sweden adopts law allowing official eavesdropping

By MALIN RISING and LOUISE NORDSTROM, Associated Press Writers 52 minutes ago

Sweden's Parliament narrowly approved a law Wednesday that gives authorities sweeping powers to eavesdrop on all e-mail and telephone traffic that crosses the Nordic nation's borders.

Critics have slammed the law as an invasion of privacy and an infringement on civil liberties. Hundreds of protesters gathered outside Parliament Wednesday, some handing out copies of George Orwell's novel "1984," about a fictional futuristic police state.

The right-leaning government's slim majority helped secure 143-138 approval, despite strong opposition from left-leaning parties led by Social Democrats.

Supporters argued the law — which takes effect in January — will help prevent terrorist attacks. It gives Swedish defense officials the right to scan international phone calls, e-mails and faxes for sensitive keywords without a court order.

The companies Swedish telecom TeliaSonera AB and Google Inc. have called the measure the most far-reaching eavesdropping plan in Europe, comparable to a U.S. government program.

After the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush granted intelligence officers the power to monitor — without court approval_ international calls and e-mails between people in the United States and suspected terrorists overseas. Last July's Protect America Act extended that authority, but it expired Feb. 15, and a replacement law is being debated.

Many European countries have gradually increased government surveillance powers, including wiretapping and police searches, in a move to combat terror plots.

In Sweden currently, e-mail and phone surveillance requires a court order if police suspect a crime, although the intelligence agency is allowed to spy on airborne signals, such as radio and satellite traffic.

The European Federation of Journalists argued that electronic monitoring of phone and e-mail communications contravenes international and European legal standards.

The government rejects claims the law will give it unlimited powers to spy on its own citizens. It maintains it is interested only in international traffic and will filter out domestic communications.

Four ruling coalition lawmakers forced additions to the bill intended to protect individual privacy. But critics said those changes, which included monitoring by independent institutions, don't satisfy their objections to the law.

"This is just as absurd as before," said Per Strom of The New Welfare Foundation think tank. "It will still create a society characterized by self-censorship and anxiety."

___

Associated Press writer Sara Sundelius in Stockholm contributed to this report.



So hows it feel odeon?  This sort of thing is ridiculous and I never thought it would spread from the US to Sweden of all places.  Here we have the ACLU fighting it, they even called me for a donation today, who will fight it over there?  We are going to end up in a world of monitored communications where the government will know all and people within it will hold a powerful advantage against all that oppose them.  They say it won't be abused yeah right  ::)  And the world moves toward more control for those in power :grrr:
The government do know all anyway. Look up Echelon and the like if you get bored...

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2008, 07:56:25 PM »
I know about Echelon this goes beyond that at least they kept it to themselves.  Now everyone is going to be doing it
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw

Offline odeon

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2008, 05:20:18 PM »
I'll tell you how it feels: I feel betrayed since I voted for that fucking government. I can't ever vote for them again. Their opposition is just as bad, though, because a few years ago they tried to pass a law very similar (well, slightly milder) to the one that was approved yesterday night. Now those people voted against the new one... ::)

I would like to move out of this country (yes, in this case Lit and I would be in complete agreement), but at the very least I will install PGP *and* post subversive footers in my email.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2008, 05:24:29 PM »
Where would you like to move to.
I feel your pain about the government I didn't  vote for Bush but my senators went along with him
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw

Offline odeon

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2008, 05:27:31 PM »
I'm not sure. There are European countries I like, such as the UK, but their laws re this kind of thing are just as bad as ours.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2008, 05:28:20 PM »
I'll tell you how it feels: I feel betrayed since I voted for that fucking government. I can't ever vote for them again. Their opposition is just as bad, though, because a few years ago they tried to pass a law very similar (well, slightly milder) to the one that was approved yesterday night. Now those people voted against the new one... ::)

I would like to move out of this country (yes, in this case Lit and I would be in complete agreement), but at the very least I will install PGP *and* post subversive footers in my email.
Whats really sad is that most of either party probably didnt have a clue what they were voting for. If the opposition won, then you would merely have the reverse policy occurring. Really its just a political coin to most within that sphere, with little regard to the implications of flipping it paid attention to.

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2008, 08:35:57 AM »
I'm not sure. There are European countries I like, such as the UK, but their laws re this kind of thing are just as bad as ours.

Are there any nice countries with good laws left?
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14:10 - Moarskrillex42: She said something about knowing why I wanted to move to Glasgow when she came in. She plopped down on my bed and told me to go ahead and open it for her.

14:11 - Peter5930: So, she thought I was your lover and that I was sending you a box full of sex toys, and that you wanted to move to Glasgow to be with me?

Offline odeon

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2008, 03:42:16 PM »
I'm not sure. There are European countries I like, such as the UK, but their laws re this kind of thing are just as bad as ours.

Are there any nice countries with good laws left?

AFAIK, Finland doesn't have these yet. The Vatican, maybe? :-\
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2008, 05:15:24 PM »
I'm not sure. There are European countries I like, such as the UK, but their laws re this kind of thing are just as bad as ours.

Are there any nice countries with good laws left?

AFAIK, Finland doesn't have these yet. The Vatican, maybe? :-\

Father Odeon :LMAO:
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2008, 09:45:11 PM »
I've always like the Netherlands...  they seem to be a good government.
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everything else is just borrowed.

Fuck it, we'll do it live.

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2008, 09:45:13 AM »
I'm not sure. There are European countries I like, such as the UK, but their laws re this kind of thing are just as bad as ours.

Are there any nice countries with good laws left?

AFAIK, Finland doesn't have these yet. The Vatican, maybe? :-\

Father Odeon :LMAO:

;D
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2008, 09:45:34 AM »
I've always like the Netherlands...  they seem to be a good government.

They have some redeeming qualities.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2008, 10:48:14 AM »

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Re: Sweden joins the US
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2008, 11:44:42 AM »
Sweden is Finished as a Civilization

An excerpt:

Quote
“Self-defense is all that remains in a lawless country”

All Swedish blogs and newspapers report on the verdict in the Rödeby trial, where a vulnerable family was harassed for years by a youth gang without getting any help whatsoever. A father suffering from a nervous disorder and a handicapped boy. Even Danish newspapers mentioned the case. The best description of this tragedy is given in the above headline at the blog Erixon.com. There’s nothing wrong with the verdict. It is a community — founded on the rule of law — degenerated to such extent that this could happen at all. That’s the really scary fact.

And here’s a translation of the relevant post by Dick Erixon:


The general disgust for the [Swedish] judicial system wasn’t harmed further this afternoon when the Court of First Instance ruled on the case in which a father defended his family against the Rödeby youths who harassed and threatened the family with death, without the police so much as blinking an eye.

The father was acquitted in full, according to the Echo Radio in its 2 PM. broadcast. The whole Rödeby affair is a tragedy, of course. But the responsible party isn’t the father or his family. The responsibility lies exclusively with the youth gang, their parents, and the police who surrendered and sided with the perpetrators. Self-defense is the one and only option left in a lawless country.

This verdict gives the hard-pressed family some compensation. It is a relief to acknowledge the outcome. The law isn’t completely brain-dead yet.

Below is a report on the Rödeby incident from The Local:


Rödeby murder suspect acquitted

The Blekinge District Court has acquitted a 50-year-old man of charges of murder and attempted murder of two teenage boys in Rödeby in southern Sweden.

The court ruled that when the man fired the shots, his mental state was such that he lacked the ability to consciously consider his behaviour or understand the consequences.

Therefore, the court found that he did not commit the act with intent, which resulted in the charges being dismissed.

[…]

The shooting took place the night of October 6th last autumn. Six armed teenagers entered the 50-year-old man’s yard in the middle of the night, after having made phone calls threatening the man’s 19-year-old son.

So let’s summarize the case:

1.   A man shot and killed one of a gang of armed intruders who had previously threatened his disabled son.
2.   The man was acquitted only because his actions were deemed by the court to be those of a lunatic.

This is what passes for “justice” in today’s Sweden.

I’ll grant that there were lunatics in the Blekinge District Court, but the man in the dock wasn’t one of them.

Wow, that is interesting, TheoK.  Thanks for posting it.

Thank goodness the dad was acquitted of murder anyway.

I'm not sure what would have happened to him here in the US if he shot an armed trespasser in his yard, and it might depend on the state where it happened.  I'm almost positive he would have been acquitted if he had shot them inside his home, though.  I highly doubt that the police would have sat on their hands done nothing while the family was being harassed here, so I hope he would never have been driven to that extreme here, however.