Social Niceties et al - WAS: Odeon, provide proof please.

[Pyraxis]

I'm still trying to understand the emotional investment of people who freak out when they discover someone else's facades. On the spectrum, it seems to have something to do with taking things literally - as in when they discover that not everything about a person can be taken literally, they get really upset because they don't know what to believe anymore. But I have no idea what the hurt/offense is for people who aren't on the spectrum.

I'm talking about things like learning that your partner is faking orgasms, or becoming confused when they say two different things in two different situations, or getting offended at a joke.

I would have thought that it would be forgiven if the offended person understood why facades can be necessary, but it doesn't seem to be.

[Pyraxis]

Whose ethical grounds?

Their own.

The guilt generally makes me look even deeper than before to find the "real"  me.

rock/hardplace thing?

Not sure what you mean by that. I generally have a good sense of what the "real me" is. Communicating it is another matter entirely.

[Pyraxis]

it does make me slightly uncomfortable, at times, but if that's the way i have to be to get on with life, then no point in fretting about it too much.  it's a means to an end

I still feel guilt, but it is a guilt that I can live with since what I have done by "playing along"  has usually kept me from various levels of anxieties which are even more difficult to take in stride..

The guilt is because I'm all for short term pragmatism, but I haven't accepted any kind of ultimate necessity of this tactic. (In other words, "I don't want to live in survival mode forever" - though admittedly the jury's still out on that one.) I consider any resulting anxieties my own fault.

[DirtDawg]

The guilt generally makes me look even deeper than before to find the "real"  me.

rock/hardplace thing?

Not sure what you mean by that. I generally have a good sense of what the "real me" is. Communicating it is another matter entirely.

I go through my travels with similar arrogance, but still, to these very days, I discover facets of myself which have yet to find light.
That's all I meant.

If I was pressed to describe a particular faith which I follow, religiously, it would include continuous self-examination and sometimes discovery when I am lucky/ready. I have also slipped from practice occasionally, but I have never lost that faith completely.

[DirtDawg]

it does make me slightly uncomfortable, at times, but if that's the way i have to be to get on with life, then no point in fretting about it too much.  it's a means to an end

I still feel guilt, but it is a guilt that I can live with since what I have done by "playing along"  has usually kept me from various levels of anxieties which are even more difficult to take in stride..

The guilt is because I'm all for short term pragmatism, but I haven't accepted any kind of ultimate necessity of this tactic. (In other words, "I don't want to live in survival mode forever" - though admittedly the jury's still out on that one.) I consider any resulting anxieties my own fault.

It becomes a question of degree.
As for me, I can often gain more from some encounters by keeping up a protective shield (not a facade, really), instead of having to stop halfway because I have become overloaded.  If I have nothing to gain from a stressful encounter, I will avoid it. I don't want to be a total hermit either, though, since most of the things worth having have to be fought for and then protected. Having some tools to help "strengthen my keel and brace my rudder" makes it possible to do more things than I would undertake if I had no defenses.

I think of mimicry as just such a defense.

[Lucifer]

it does make me slightly uncomfortable, at times, but if that's the way i have to be to get on with life, then no point in fretting about it too much.  it's a means to an end

I still feel guilt, but it is a guilt that I can live with since what I have done by "playing along"  has usually kept me from various levels of anxieties which are even more difficult to take in stride..

The guilt is because I'm all for short term pragmatism, but I haven't accepted any kind of ultimate necessity of this tactic. (In other words, "I don't want to live in survival mode forever" - though admittedly the jury's still out on that one.) I consider any resulting anxieties my own fault.

"short term pragmatism"?  over 46 years?  i have to disagree, obviously. 

besides, if you do it often enough, it becomes second mature.  not automatic, but nearly, although when i'm tired/stressed/emotional/etc. it goes straight out of the window. 

everyone plays roles, aspie or not, whether it's office/father/out with mates, teacher/sister/dopehead, and any other combination your care to mention.

i don't consider it survival - i can do that by being a complete spaz - i consider it making things easier, therefore improving the qaulity of my life.  of course it takes work, and of course, i'd prefer it if people met me halfway, but because i'm approachable (can't think of another word, just at the moment, and that's not the definitive word), people are prepared to listen, and then to meet me at least part of the way.

sad but true, but the simple fact of the matter is that we as aspies have to do the work first, before people are educated about AS, and begin to understand it, and then begin to come to us, rather than the opposite.

[Pyraxis]

It becomes a question of degree.

(...)

I go through my travels with similar arrogance, but still, to these very days, I discover facets of myself which have yet to find light.
That's all I meant.

If I was pressed to describe a particular faith which I follow, religiously, it would include continuous self-examination and sometimes discovery when I am lucky/ready. I have also slipped from practice occasionally, but I have never lost that faith completely.

Good point. Actually what I really want to do is subsume survival by necessity into drive towards goal. I'm too much in love with the mechanisms to do the usual about-face and start preaching absolute acceptance of ease (sorry, really don't know a word for that concept). As long as I'm into the mechanisms I figure I may as well use them for something.

Actually, one of the things I most fear is losing the impetus for discovery because it's no longer needed for survival.

[Pyraxis]

"short term pragmatism"?  over 46 years?  i have to disagree, obviously. 

I meant as applied to myself, not you. I've no idea if it could be short term for you.

besides, if you do it often enough, it becomes second mature.  not automatic, but nearly, although when i'm tired/stressed/emotional/etc. it goes straight out of the window. 

I'm so tempted to throw in a jibe about efficacy and resultant illness.

[ozymandias]

"short term pragmatism"?  over 46 years?  i have to disagree, obviously. 

I meant as applied to myself, not you. I've no idea if it could be short term for you.

besides, if you do it often enough, it becomes second mature.  not automatic, but nearly, although when i'm tired/stressed/emotional/etc. it goes straight out of the window. 

I'm so tempted to throw in a jibe about efficacy and resultant illness.

How about, "Lets not and say we did?"   

[Lucifer]

besides, if you do it often enough, it becomes second mature.  not automatic, but nearly, although when i'm tired/stressed/emotional/etc. it goes straight out of the window. 

I'm so tempted to throw in a jibe about efficacy and resultant illness.

you can if you like.  i've been remarkably healthy all my life, often going years without having to see a doctor.

i have been horribly ill (for me) for the past few years, but i blame where i live (cos i hate it), a constant stream of vile events (with causes beyond my control) and age.  the external events cause my depression to surface, and i've had that almost constantly for the past ten years, whereas previously, it was more intermittant.

[Pyraxis]

you can if you like.  i've been remarkably healthy all my life, often going years without having to see a doctor.

*shrug* The number of people I've heard brag about that....

[Phlexor]

As per usual, I'd have to be dying and near death before I go to the doctors.

That or I need a perscription for something like diclofenac or something.

[Lucifer]

you can if you like.  i've been remarkably healthy all my life, often going years without having to see a doctor.

*shrug* The number of people I've heard brag about that....

lucky you for knowing so many healthy people.

i wasn't bragging, pyraxis, i was merely refuting your implied connexion between "acting" in social situations (as defined above) and ill health, in my case, anyway.

As per usual, I'd have to be dying and near death before I go to the doctors.

That or I need a perscription for something like diclofenac or something.

bingo.   

[Pyraxis]

lucky you for knowing so many healthy people.

Maybe. Or maybe it's a case of self-attribution bias, because it's just a wee bit statistically unlikely that most people are healthier than most. Either way, it's not like I've conducted any scientific studies on it, but I take such claims with a major grain of salt.

[Lucifer]

yes: i imagine it's difficult asking people for their medical records as proof.