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Offline Praetor

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An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« on: April 04, 2006, 11:49:45 AM »
Hello everyone

We had a lecturer from the social studies department of my university talk to my class today about people with learning disabilities who become parents and lifetime achievements of learning disabled people. He runs the disability studies program ( a degree courrse in the study of disability rights movements and also the social and medical side of it as well) here in Sheffield and it was very interesting talking to him about self advocacy because I was asking him about running groups for Autism and talking about how we have individuals who want to kind of speak for the group as it were (which technically is not self advocacy its an individual using the power of many voices from being the head of an organisation to weild influence) because we got into a discussion on the usage of various systems of representation and going in depth into the moral and ethical argument behind democratic process and the ability to influence change on a society within action/self advocacy groups.

His discussion has got me thinking on how we could form an asperger group of self advocacy that would also enable everyone not just one person the ability to have a voice. It really requires alot of balances and checks of power, someone to kind of see that no one person dominates in terms of power and then it kinda begs the question well surely this goes back to square one as this individual clearly would then be the dictator as it were.

Also we have a disability studies professor from the university of Iceland coming to visit in may who is doing a talk on the nordic countries approach to disability, it will cover autism and aspergers syndrome so i will feedback to you guys on what is discussed in this lecture as i think we have alot to learn from these nations.

duncvis

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2006, 01:44:29 PM »
Quote
His discussion has got me thinking on how we could form an asperger group of self advocacy that would also enable everyone not just one person the ability to have a voice. It really requires alot of balances and checks of power, someone to kind of see that no one person dominates in terms of power and then it kinda begs the question well surely this goes back to square one as this individual clearly would then be the dictator as it were.

Its a fucking good question. It seems to me that there are two alternatives; either tabling suggestions and discussing policies regarding particular issues on which the group wished to be represented in the hope of achieving consensus, and ensuring that the group member nominated as mouthpiece could be replaced without difficulty, and could be held to their mandate,
or accepting that there are always going to be people whose needs differ from the majority - and enabling those individuals to effectively fight their own battles, perhaps with the promise of back up from other members of the group.

Or both concurrently. Am I making any sense?

Offline DivaD

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2006, 02:39:54 PM »
for a start can someone give a diff?rance-free definition of what exactly "self-advocacy" is? it's a term lots of people use but i never see a good definition of it.

i tend to think in terms of the dynamics of 'empowerment', and even then i'm not of the opinion that empowerment is always 'good'. you can empower a disempowered individual to have a voice. the question then is, does he empower himself to empower others, or empower himself to disempower others? to relate it to your example, you could make a group to give individuals a voice, that would be 'empowering', but when the one individual dominates the group to his own end then he is 'empowered to disempower' so to speak.
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Offline Praetor

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2006, 04:42:24 PM »
Ok i will go straight to basics

The definition of an advocate

Quote
An advocate is one who speaks on behalf of another, especially in a legal context. Implicit in the concept is the notion that the represented lacks the knowledge, skill, ability, or standing to speak for themselves. Common advocates include lawyers, activists, and public relations consultants.

The more modern use of it

Quote
Generally: A person who pleads, intercedes, or speaks for another. It also means a person whose profession is to plead causes in courts of law. This is especially the use in Scotland. In the USA it means any lawyer. To advocate, means to speak in favour of an idea. From the 1970s it was used for speaking up for people with disabilities - especially mentally handicapped people.

The last role there is what im being trainned to do as a nurse. So I would advocate that they recieve appropriate healthcare treatment, have a say in their care plans etc and represent their interests when dealing with other organisations and services. During the process if you are building up their own skills and abilities (obviously some people with severe problems will never really truly be a ble to fully self advocate but you always strive to do as best as you can) would be trainning the individual to eventually become a "SELF" advocate. Basically he no longer needs me,the nurse, to advocate for him and he is capable of saying what he wants and expressing his views clearly and is able to independantly access services when required such as going to see the GP for example when they feel ill, skills you and i take for granted really.

So self advocacy is basically, hey mr fucktard professional/charity organisation/government person I have a mind of my own and I will speak for myself not you. I will tell you what I want and what I believe and my opinions and i'll tell you precisely how your screwing me over.

When it gets confusing is when you have self advocay groups. Now its abit of an oxymoron term to be self advocate in a group   :P Cause now you have a group of people who can advocate for themselves get together and effectively form a consesnsus. Groups will always have more power then an individual in terms of bringing about change. This is the stage were things obviously become abit messy because now your entering into politics and intrigue and this is probably why the self advocate groups fail alot of the time because sometimes without outside independant support it basically becomes a dog eat dog game for the king of the hill position. Ive seen it happen with an ADHD group, the leader of that group is getting some nice back payments from Glaxo-smythe glyne at the moment because the group promotes the use of drugs such as ritalin. Not public knowledge until she got caught in the act....


Offline Lucifer

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2006, 04:44:20 PM »
that's fucking outrageous.

grrrrrrrrrrr - wanker.

Offline Praetor

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2006, 04:49:27 PM »
Quote
i tend to think in terms of the dynamics of 'empowerment', and even then i'm not of the opinion that empowerment is always 'good'. you can empower a disempowered individual to have a voice. the question then is, does he empower himself to empower others, or empower himself to disempower others? to relate it to your example, you could make a group to give individuals a voice, that would be 'empowering', but when the one individual dominates the group to his own end then he is 'empowered to disempower' so to speak.

Well by giving everyone an equal opportunity to be empowered you won't produce equality. Not everyone will have the same chance to take up the opportunity so those with favourable characteristics behind them will always be more empowered to take advantage of an opportunity. So your example there of a group of people empowered then being dominated by one of their peers is a great example of that, they took the opporunity and fully exploited it in order to gain a dominance over others.

Im very wary that when you form a group your putting abit of trust in another person that they actually are asperger/diagnosed/have a good solid impression that they are or can be trusted and I can see that trust thats required in order for a team to work to be fully abused in order for an individual to gain a monopoly on power. These people do exist out there and there the wankers who hold back the progress of the human race quite frankly  :D

Postperson

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2006, 05:46:31 PM »
I'm tired of being a self advocate. Now when people question or dispute my dx while I'm trying to access some service or other (there's no such thing, you DON'T have autism), I just refer them to a disabilities body. I'm sick of being a spokesperson, I'm just a person.

I don't think people actually believe anything is real until they've seen it in a movie. I'm delighted that one has been made because it's going to make a big difference, hopefully. I think it all comes from media really, the change in people's attitude. PROPAGANDA WORKS!


Offline Praetor

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2006, 05:58:49 PM »
I'm tired of being a self advocate. Now when people question or dispute my dx while I'm trying to access some service or other (there's no such thing, you DON'T have autism), I just refer them to a disabilities body. I'm sick of being a spokesperson, I'm just a person.

I don't think people actually believe anything is real until they've seen it in a movie. I'm delighted that one has been made because it's going to make a big difference, hopefully. I think it all comes from media really, the change in people's attitude. PROPAGANDA WORKS!



That mozart and the whale film is utterly awful and cringeworthy i'd rather it was never made

And Don't worry i get the same flak as well my dear its utterly ridiculous but thats all the more reason to establish ourselves as a group and not rely on nanny charities and organisation bodies to "represent us" because we "suffer from this horrid asperger syndrome"

Tell me postperson have you ever been a victim or a person who has had discrimination inflicted upon them for being asperger?

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2006, 06:00:55 PM »
thats why we need to get on oprah.

IMHO- since i don't want to speak for the group, without the groups approval. :-X
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Offline El

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2006, 06:01:01 PM »
I'd like to be able to self-advocate more than I have the skills to do now. ?I lack the skills, mind you, but not the capacity to acquire the skills, and I have more self-advocacy skills than I did probably even just a year ago. ?However, I would also alway, I think, like to know someone else has my back, because I am very aware of my enourmous capacity to fuck up royally.
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Offline Praetor

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2006, 06:05:09 PM »
thats why we need to get on oprah.

IMHO- since i don't want to speak for the group, without the groups approval. :-X

I would only go on that show as a mulsim fundamentalist suicide bomber


Postperson

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2006, 06:05:32 PM »
"Tell me postperson have you ever been a victim or a person who has had discrimination inflicted upon them for being asperger?"

Tell me Praetor, is the pope a catholic?

Postperson

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2006, 06:06:35 PM »
and what's so awful about M & TW, give us the full review. I haven't seen it. Don't think it's released here yet.

Offline Praetor

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2006, 06:08:02 PM »
"Tell me postperson have you ever been a victim or a person who has had discrimination inflicted upon them for being asperger?"

Tell me Praetor, is the pope a catholic?


Tell me postperson when your trying to make a point and the other person decides to act the fool do you decide to carry on making the point?

Offline Praetor

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Re: An intersting lecture I had today with a prof...
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2006, 06:08:54 PM »
and what's so awful about M & TW, give us the full review. I haven't seen it. Don't think it's released here yet.

Medieval Total War is a fantastic game, the chance to lead the Golden Horde of the Mongolian Khantite and kill Ukranians is awesome