Author Topic: Moderate Muslims??  (Read 4129 times)

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Offline odeon

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Re: Moderate Muslims??
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2016, 08:40:52 AM »
 :spitscreen:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Moderate Muslims??
« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2016, 08:44:46 AM »
:spitscreen:

Ignorance is bliss, and you seem happy.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline odeon

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Re: Moderate Muslims??
« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2016, 08:47:42 AM »
Baiting again, Al?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Moderate Muslims??
« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2016, 09:54:09 AM »
Baiting again, Al?

Not amused then? I thought that was a happy emoticon? Baiting maybe, but that is far better than bait and switching, am I right?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 04:50:13 PM by Al Swearengen »
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline odeon

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Re: Moderate Muslims??
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2016, 11:49:46 PM »
Baiting again, Al?

Not amused then? I thought that was a happy emoticon? Baiting maybe, but that is far better than bait and switching, am I right?

Ah, there's that vague accusation of *something* again.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Moderate Muslims??
« Reply #80 on: July 21, 2016, 12:46:44 AM »
Baiting again, Al?

Not amused then? I thought that was a happy emoticon? Baiting maybe, but that is far better than bait and switching, am I right?

Ah, there's that vague accusation of *something* again.

Nothing vague about it. I spelled it out pretty clearly and evidenced it with your own quotes.
That you act like it is a big enigma is on you entirely.
You can choose pretend to be ignorant after having it explained to you. That is an option.
You can pretend to be trolling me.
Perhaps you will feign being able to comprehend me, with all the conviction of a primary school kid with his fingers in his ears saying "Lalala can't hear you"
Don't really care dishonesty is dishonesty. Don't much care for your intentions
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline odeon

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Re: Moderate Muslims??
« Reply #81 on: July 21, 2016, 12:51:20 PM »
Well, you'd certainly know about dishonesty, wouldn't you, having spent months taking the easy way out. You still do.

:yawn:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Moderate Muslims??
« Reply #82 on: July 21, 2016, 03:36:15 PM »
Well, you'd certainly know about dishonesty, wouldn't you, having spent months taking the easy way out. You still do.

:yawn:quite

The easy way out being lying, playing bait and switch, ignoring anything too close to home, dismissing, condensing and misrepresenting BUT never actually backing oneself........but that describes you and your efforts.

Can't see why I should feel bad about that
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Moderate Muslims??
« Reply #83 on: August 30, 2018, 05:59:41 PM »
I'm not Alt-Right, I'm a "Liberal Klansman"!!! LOL   :autism:

Offline Grey Area

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Re: Moderate Muslims??
« Reply #84 on: August 30, 2018, 06:35:35 PM »
Moderate Muslims are the ones who stand around and watch while the nutty ones throw people off buildings.
There are no atheists when the toilet water is rising.
:GA:  :trollskull: 

Offline Bastet

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Re: Moderate Muslims??
« Reply #85 on: September 19, 2018, 11:06:00 AM »
Is it true that the Koran calls Jews apes and pigs?
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JJ Cohn
JJ Cohn, A Jew
Answered Mar 11, 2015
*Some* Jews,  not all.   Namely those Jews who violated the Sabbath,  and or "worshiped the powers of evil",  and or, "disdainfully persisted in doing what they had been forbidden to do..." (per the Koranic translation in English).   Koran 5:59-60 also says "most of you (meaning Jews) are iniquitous", but does not actually say "all" of you are,  in fairness. 

Does the Qur’an Say Jews Are “Apes and Pigs”?

from the link:
" [self-proclaimed Islam expert, anti-Muslim writer Robert] Spencer claims the Qur’an says Jews are apes and pigs in three places, implying “all Jews” are referred to this way. This is a lie.  Let’s examine Spencer’s claims in detail. Here are the verses he cites:

AND LO! We accepted your solemn pledge, raising Mount Sinai high above you, [and saying;] “Hold fast with [all your] strength unto what We have vouchsafed you, and bear in mind all that is therein, so that you might remain conscious of God!” And you turned away after that-!  And had it not been for God’s favour upon you and His grace, you would surely have found yourselves among the lost. For you are well aware of those from among you who profaned the Sabbath, whereupon We said unto them, “Be as apes despicable!” and set them up as a warning example for their time and for all times to come, as well as an admonition to all who are conscious of God. (2:63-66)

Say: “O followers of earlier revelation! Do you find fault with us for no other reason than that we believe in God [alone], and in that which He has bestowed from on high upon us as well as that which He has  bestowed aforetime? – or [is it only] because most of you are  iniquitous?”
Say: “Shall I tell you who, in the sight of God, deserves a yet worse retribution than these?  They whom God rejected and whom He condemned, and whom He turned into apes and swine because they worshipped the powers of evil: these are yet worse in station, and  farther astray from the right path [than the mockers].” (5:59-60)

...And then, when they disdainfully persisted in doing what they had  been forbidden to do, We said unto them: “Be as apes despicable!” (7:166)

"The verses in question reference a specific story in which a community of Jews who lived by the sea — which according to several  early Islamic exegeses is the town of Eilat — had people who fished on the Sabbath and deliberately broke the law, for according to Jewish law, all work was forbidden on the Sabbath. In punishment for this breach of the law, God transformed the Sabbath-breakers into apes; only 5:60 speaks of God transforming some of the sabbath-breaking Jews into swine.

" Yet, note that the verses in question do not say, “All Jews are apes  and pigs.” Do some Muslims say so? Absolutely. Do they cite the above verses as “evidence” for their  claims? Absolutely. Does that mean that the verses in question say so?  Absolutely not.

In fact, Robert Spencer himself has admitted in the past that these verses do not apply to all Jews. Spencer in 2010:
In traditional Islamic theology these passages have not been considered to apply to all Jews. The classic Qur’anic commentator Ibn Kathir, whose commentary is widely distributed and respected among Muslims today, quotes earlier authorities saying that “those who violated the sanctity of the Sabbath were turned into monkeys, then they perished without offspring,” and that they “only lived on the earth for three days, for no transformed person ever lives more than three days.”

But such interpretations, of which Spencer is clearly aware does not prevent him from projecting the antisemitic statements of some Muslims, such as Morsi’s upon the entire religion of Islam itself when it is convenient for him to do so–as if he suffers from amnesia about what he has written in the past!

Our response is: How do the antisemitic views of some Muslims constitute “proof” of Quranic or Islamic antisemitism? Is the fact that some Catholics hold Jews to be “enemies of the Church,”  “Christ killers,” etc., “proof” of inherent New Testament or Christian antisemitism? Does the fact that some Jews hold the view that “racism”  is a value that “originated in the Torah,” or that “non-Jews exist to serve Jews” proof of Judaism’s racism and xenophobia against non-Jews? No, of course not! Then, how can that same logic apply to Islam? ... "
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Jane ChurchComment...
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Chris Day
Chris Day, 30+ years as an international management consultant
Answered Jun 1
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Muslim apologists will say, ‘no, not at all’.

Others will write, ‘yes, but only some Jews were called this’.

Others will write ‘it’s because the interpretation was not clear, but in fact the Muslims respect the Jews, whom are called in question he Qur’ran, The People of the Book’.

Please friends, read the Qur’an; don’t listen to Islamic apologists or Bovine Scatology (BS) on the subject.

Go and read the Qur’ran for yourself, simple as that. Then listen to imams, Muslim religious preachers, who quote the Qur’an incessantly when delivering sermons,

And although the Qur’an says that Christians received the same punishment - not factually true, throughout history the term “apes and swine” has largely been reserved for Jews, in both Shi’ite and Sunni traditions, from the founding of Islam nearly fourteen hundred years ago to today ( “Muslim Clerics - Jews Are the Descendants of Apes, Pigs, And Other Animals,” Jewish Virtual Library, November 2002.)

The Saudi sheikh Abdul Rahman al-Sudais, imam at the Grand Mosque in Mecca (Masjid al-Haram) called Jews pigs and monkeys. He also preached “that Jews, based on our Holy Qur’ran, are the scum of the human race, the rats of the world, the violators of pacts and agreements, the murderers of the prophets, and the offspring of apes and pigs (Charles Moore, “Where is the Gandhi of Islam?” The Telegraph, 9 July 2005.)

Al-Sudais is just one among many Muslim preachers promoting the same message. Many other leading Muslim clerics in the Middle East have also been preaching that Jews are swine and monkeys.

The Salafist Jordanian Sheikh Ali Halabi had issued a fatwa against the killing of Jews in February 2015. He changed his opinions after facing intense backlash. In a video released in November 2015 he announced that it is acceptable to kill someone who attacks you, “all the more so when the aggressor is an evil Jew, from among the brothers of apes and pigs.”

Taking the Qu’ranic text literally means considering Jews as animals. that’s clear. The Nazis held similar views, asserting that Jews were subhuman.

Even the highest religious Muslim authority in pre-war Palestine, the Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al Husseini (and close confidante of Hitler’s, listed the points of similarity and overlap between Islam and Nazism in detail. He did so in a lecture to the imams of the Bosnian SS unit, which he had helped to set up (Matthias Küntzel, Djihad und Judenhass (Freiburg: ça ira-Verlag, 2003), 39.).

And a quote directly from the Quran in Sura (chapter) Al Ma’idaj states very clearly;

Say, “Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs (swine) and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way.”

And look into the Qur’an and read sura (chapter) 5, verse 60 (Qur’an 5:60).

For more details on this sordid Jew-hate name-calling by the Qur’an and by Islamic leaders worldwide, I refer the scholarly to an academic paper; “Qur’ranic Muslim Demonization of Jews as ‘Pigs and Apes:’ Theological Roots and Contemporary Implications by Dr. Neil Kressel (Ph.D).
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Jane ChurchComment...
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Raud
Raud
Answered Feb 18
It says that allah turned some of the people of sabbath into apes, as an ex muslim from the middle east they teach us quran and one of the topics they taught us is (the people of sabbath) read the story and you will find a verse says that allah turned them into apes and of course you will find a lot of hatred towards jews in islamic scriptures and tbh there is no need to find verses or hadiths that is filled with hatred to prove that islam hates jews, just look at the majority of muslims and you will find the true face of the religion of peace, and its really funny seeing all the muslims here trying to defend their peaceful religion!!

Islam and the People of the Book
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Jane ChurchComment...
Bala Bafoofkit
Bala Bafoofkit, Missionary of the High Moistness at Saint Shlemiel's Chapel of the Valley
Answered Mar 3, 2015
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Quran   in three different verses: 7:166, 2:65, and 5:60.

Koran  then recounts a legend—not found in the Talmud —about Jews fishing or working on the Sabbath in a town that tradition says was located on the Red Sea . God made fish appear on the surface only on the Sabbath, never on weekdays. This tempted some Jewish fishermen to break their holy day of rest, ignoring their teachers’ warnings.

7:166 But when even after this they disdainfully persisted in that from which they were forbidden, We said to them, "Become apes—despised and disgraced!"


Thus, the literary context of Sura 2:65, having as its background the fishermen’s legend in Sura 7:163-166, another one of those silly repeats

2:65 And you know well the story of those among you who broke Sabbath. We said to them: "Be apes—despised and hated by all." 66 Thus We made their end a warning to the people of their time and succeeding generation, and an admonition for God-fearing people.

Sura 5:60, having as its background the fishermen’s legend in Sura 7:163-166,

Then say: "Should I inform you [People of the Book] of those, who will have even worse recompense from Allah than the transgressors? They are those whom Allah has cursed; who have been under His wrath; some of whom were turned into apes and swine; who worshipped taghut [the devil or idols]; those are the people who are in a far worse plight and who have turned farthest away from the Right Way."
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Josh Bob
Josh Bob
Is this generally taken to refer to the individuals, or extrapolated to all Jews?
Mehran Janghorbani
Mehran Janghorbani, Have studied Islam as much as I could, am a practicing Muslim and know something about it
Answered Mar 4, 2015
No, the verse says that in the time of Moses there were some Jews who desecrated the Sabbath and they were turned into pigs as an example.

It never says that Jews are pigs, in fact Jews appear many times in the Quran and in Islamic tradition both as examples of holy men and good behavior that Muslims need to emulate and at times as examples of people who have strayed from the path. However, nowhere does the Quran insult the entire Jewish community.

Second, the punishment was a one time thing to make an example of the transgressors, it does not even say that Jews that desecrate the Sabbath will be turned into pigs.

Where did you get that idea from?
:kitten: OBSESSIVE AILUROPHILE :kitten:


It is far better for people to hate you for doing the right thing than for people to love you for doing the wrong thing. Never ever forget that.