Black or woman president?

[Calandale]

Lot of people lie in these things as hiding racists views seems to be the American way

94% now accepting of a black president and 70% in 1960 of a Catholic one is quite a gap which cannot be easily explained away.

Except that toleration is more the ACCEPTABLE way
to be. Might not mean much real change, when faced
with the kinds of hidden bigotry, which I suspect plays
a large role.

[Natalia Evans]

would you vote for an atheist nutcase? 

There's already a nutcase in the White House so that really isn't much of a stretch.

 :lol:

[odeon]

Looks like the woman made a comeback.

[Callaway]

Looks like the woman made a comeback.

If she is elected, I hope that she can get the health care initiative to pass the House and Senate.  She wants everyone who sells health insurance to the Federal government to sell it to any American who wants to buy it for the same price they offer government employees, with the same lack of exclusion of pre-existing conditions.  Right now, employees of the Federal government can choose between maybe hundreds of different health insurance plans, so it would be nice for ordinary people to be able to buy health insurance if they need it.

The only reason we were able to buy health insurance after my husband lost his job was because we bought it under COBRA for the 18 months, then bought the conversion policy, which was crappy insurance and expensive, but at least we had health insurance.

Some plans allow participants and beneficiaries to convert group health coverage to an individual policy.  If this option is generally available from the plan, a qualified beneficiary who pays for COBRA coverage must be given the option of converting to an individual policy at the end of the COBRA continuation coverage period.  The option must be given to enroll in a conversion health plan within 180 days before COBRA coverage ends.  The premium for a conversion policy may be more expensive than the premium of a group plan, and the conversion policy may provide a lower level of coverage.  The conversion option, however, is not available if the beneficiary ends COBRA coverage before reaching the end of the maximum period of COBRA coverage.

[Teejay]

I don't get why anyone cares whether it's a woman or it's black

The US is one of the most socially conservative western countries, so a female or black president would be a cultural landmark and of interest to the rest of the world due to the extent of US influence around the world.

The day the US elects a black lesbian atheist is the day I become interested in moving there.  Interestingly, an atheist candidate is at even more of a disadvantage than a homosexual one:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/black_president_more_likely_than_mormon_or_atheist_/

America in a strange country, it has very socially liberal places and very socially conservative places. Mind you in Britain, an Catholic could never get elected Prime Minister (Blair delayed his conversion to catholicism for this reason).

[Parts]

Looks like the woman made a comeback.

If she is elected, I hope that she can get the health care initiative to pass the House and Senate.  She wants everyone who sells health insurance to the Federal government to sell it to any American who wants to buy it for the same price they offer government employees, with the same lack of exclusion of pre-existing conditions.  Right now, employees of the Federal government can choose between maybe hundreds of different health insurance plans, so it would be nice for ordinary people to be able to buy health insurance if they need it.

The only reason we were able to buy health insurance after my husband lost his job was because we bought it under COBRA for the 18 months, then bought the conversion policy, which was crappy insurance and expensive, but at least we had health insurance.

Some plans allow participants and beneficiaries to convert group health coverage to an individual policy.  If this option is generally available from the plan, a qualified beneficiary who pays for COBRA coverage must be given the option of converting to an individual policy at the end of the COBRA continuation coverage period.  The option must be given to enroll in a conversion health plan within 180 days before COBRA coverage ends.  The premium for a conversion policy may be more expensive than the premium of a group plan, and the conversion policy may provide a lower level of coverage.  The conversion option, however, is not available if the beneficiary ends COBRA coverage before reaching the end of the maximum period of COBRA coverage.

COBRA really sucks too when I was offered it when I left one job the price was unbelievable luckily My new boss at the time got me on the company's plan early so I didn't need it.  Now being self employed I am lucky my wife is a teacher and have insurance though  her   or I would not be able to work for myself. 

[duncvis]

I don't get why anyone cares whether it's a woman or it's black

The US is one of the most socially conservative western countries, so a female or black president would be a cultural landmark and of interest to the rest of the world due to the extent of US influence around the world.

The day the US elects a black lesbian atheist is the day I become interested in moving there.  Interestingly, an atheist candidate is at even more of a disadvantage than a homosexual one:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/black_president_more_likely_than_mormon_or_atheist_/

America in a strange country, it has very socially liberal places and very socially conservative places. Mind you in Britain, an Catholic could never get elected Prime Minister (Blair delayed his conversion to catholicism for this reason).

Thats actually bollocks. The electorate in the UK dont give much of a fuck about what faith their politicians are (as long as they dont make a big fuss about it). He was unsure if there was an archaic law still in force which would bar a Catholic from being PM, not whether he could get elected.

[The_P]

If the U.S. elects a black president, it means that they've grown up as a nation. No more white supremacy bullshit; throw that social darwinist bollocks where it belongs -- in the gutter.

I don't care if some immigrant or coloured person becomes the Prime Minister in my backyard as long as they do a good job at it.

[Pyraxis]

I don't get why anyone cares whether it's a woman or it's black

You know, most of those who do,
probably don't think that they do.
Built in stereotypes.

Is this meant to encourage racism and sexism? Because that's the effect it has. People who genuinely don't care get accused of caring - on what grounds? "Everyone does it"? How the heck will we eliminate such things from the social system when you can't even say you've moved beyond them without getting accused of denial?

[ALLDAYGLOWRANDY]

Woman president should allow everyone to walk around naked
 

[Calandale]

I don't get why anyone cares whether it's a woman or it's black

You know, most of those who do,
probably don't think that they do.
Built in stereotypes.

Is this meant to encourage racism and sexism? Because that's the effect it has. People who genuinely don't care get accused of caring - on what grounds? "Everyone does it"? How the heck will we eliminate such things from the social system when you can't even say you've moved beyond them without getting accused of denial?

Nah. You're missing the point. Those of us
who believe that we don't should examine
more carefully, that's all. It's clearly better to
have hidden racism, than to string niggers up
from trees. And it's much better to have
hidden sexism, than to blatantly not hire
women, for their gender.

BUT, we have a ways to go. So long as
there are cultural differences, they will
effect such decisions. And, in some cases,
like choosing our leaders, this can be especially
dangerous.

[Christopher McCandless]

Looks like the woman made a comeback.

If she is elected, I hope that she can get the health care initiative to pass the House and Senate.  She wants everyone who sells health insurance to the Federal government to sell it to any American who wants to buy it for the same price they offer government employees, with the same lack of exclusion of pre-existing conditions.  Right now, employees of the Federal government can choose between maybe hundreds of different health insurance plans, so it would be nice for ordinary people to be able to buy health insurance if they need it.

The only reason we were able to buy health insurance after my husband lost his job was because we bought it under COBRA for the 18 months, then bought the conversion policy, which was crappy insurance and expensive, but at least we had health insurance.

Some plans allow participants and beneficiaries to convert group health coverage to an individual policy.  If this option is generally available from the plan, a qualified beneficiary who pays for COBRA coverage must be given the option of converting to an individual policy at the end of the COBRA continuation coverage period.  The option must be given to enroll in a conversion health plan within 180 days before COBRA coverage ends.  The premium for a conversion policy may be more expensive than the premium of a group plan, and the conversion policy may provide a lower level of coverage.  The conversion option, however, is not available if the beneficiary ends COBRA coverage before reaching the end of the maximum period of COBRA coverage.

Clinton wont get too much of the Health Care package through, look at Bill's attempts. The one (out of those who support it) who has the best chance is Huccabee.

[Pyraxis]

Nah. You're missing the point. Those of us
who believe that we don't should examine
more carefully, that's all.

I'm just sick of being told to examine more carefully, that's all. What the heck kind of proof does it take to actually get people to believe I'm not racist or sexist?

[Calandale]

Nah. You're missing the point. Those of us
who believe that we don't should examine
more carefully, that's all.

I'm just sick of being told to examine more carefully, that's all. What the heck kind of proof does it take to actually get people to believe I'm not racist or sexist?

But, I'm not accusing YOU, or any other
single person (except for me). Still, I DO
suspect that there are a hell of a lot of
liberal minded folk, who end up making
judgments for suspicious feelings.

Certainly SEEMS to come across that way,
when words like shrill ONLY apply to females.

[Pyraxis]

True, I'm being defensive.

However, you did accuse "Those of us who believe that we don't", which includes me and also the subset of the population who legitimately aren't racist and know it.

I don't deny that there is still racism and sexism in North American culture, and that it can be demonstrated by words like "shrill". I'm making the point that those people who aren't racist can have a very hard time getting people to believe them, and that adds to the general fear and segregation. Getting repeatedly accused of something you're not guilty of can create hostility over the issue which otherwise wouldn't have existed.