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Offline Dexter Morgan

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2007, 11:00:01 PM »
They kind of annoy me, especially the Ron Paul spammers
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Offline Alex179

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2007, 12:55:23 PM »
Quote from: pit pat on November 27, 2007, 11:00:01 PM
They kind of annoy me, especially the Ron Paul spammers
He is a Republican, not a Libertarian.
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Offline SovaNu

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2007, 07:02:50 PM »
yeah get your facts straight Pit Pat.
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Offline Dexter Morgan

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2007, 08:18:38 PM »
Quote from: Alex179 on November 28, 2007, 12:55:23 PM
Quote from: pit pat on November 27, 2007, 11:00:01 PM
They kind of annoy me, especially the Ron Paul spammers
He is a Republican, not a Libertarian.
He is a libertarian who happens to be in the Republican party.  (He ran under the Libertarian Party for president in 1988.)
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Offline Alex179

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2007, 09:12:42 PM »
Quote from: pit pat on November 28, 2007, 08:18:38 PM
Quote from: Alex179 on November 28, 2007, 12:55:23 PM
Quote from: pit pat on November 27, 2007, 11:00:01 PM
They kind of annoy me, especially the Ron Paul spammers
He is a Republican, not a Libertarian.
He is a libertarian who happens to be in the Republican party.  (He ran under the Libertarian Party for president in 1988.)

What annoys you about Libertarians specifically?   I really don't pay much attention to the Ron Paul hype around campus, but he is pushed heavily.   I would not say that all of his views are Libertarian, but he has some.
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duncvis

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2007, 03:22:58 PM »
I am essentially a social libertarian, i.e. an anarchist. the economic libertarian position is abhorrent to me - its basically seeking the right to be utterly selfish and fuck everyone else, like we don't really have to function as a society or have any moral obligation to help those less fortunate than ourselves. its the naked capitalist impulse. :puke:
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Offline Calandale

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2007, 07:52:31 PM »
Libertarians AREN'T anarchists. They believe that
some minimal set of protections are necessary.
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Offline maldoror

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2007, 07:53:35 PM »
Libertarian Socialists are. Truth be told, that's probably more in my direction.
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Offline SovaNu

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2007, 09:02:24 PM »
yes i'm a socialist libertarian. individual freedoms. economic libertarianism is disgusting.
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Offline Calandale

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2007, 03:52:54 AM »
Quote from: Peagai on December 01, 2007, 07:53:35 PM
Libertarian Socialists are. Truth be told, that's probably more in my direction.

Certainly NOT. Enforced redistribution
of wealth has nothing in common with
anarchy.

Thing is, anarchy can't really exist. It
collapses. Power collates.
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Offline SovaNu

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2007, 04:01:29 AM »
what is anarchy?
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"I think everybody has an asshole component to their personality. It's just a matter of how much you indulge it. Those who do it often form a habit. So like any addiction, you have to learn to overcome it."
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~PPK

"We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away."
~Gkar

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Offline Calandale

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2007, 04:12:50 AM »
I tend to define it as a state without rules.

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy) uses
the following:

# "Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to the absence or inefficiency of the supreme power; political disorder."[1]
# "A theoretical social state in which there is no governing person or body of persons, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."[2]
# "Absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere


Probably the 2nd meaning is what people are aiming
for, but it is clearly impossible. At least with anything
like modern mores.
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Offline SovaNu

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2007, 04:53:28 AM »
i think of anarchy as an absense of the need for rules. when people reach full consciousness they will do the right thing because they want to.
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"I think everybody has an asshole component to their personality. It's just a matter of how much you indulge it. Those who do it often form a habit. So like any addiction, you have to learn to overcome it."
~Lord Phlexor

"Sometimes stepping on one's own dick is a memorable learning experience."
~PPK

"We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away."
~Gkar

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Offline maldoror

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2007, 08:10:08 AM »
Quote from: Wagner on December 02, 2007, 03:52:54 AM
Quote from: Peagai on December 01, 2007, 07:53:35 PM
Libertarian Socialists are. Truth be told, that's probably more in my direction.

Certainly NOT. Enforced redistribution
of wealth has nothing in common with
anarchy.

Thing is, anarchy can't really exist. It
collapses. Power collates.

Hey man. I took Poly sci 1000 you can't fool me. Socialism doesn't have to be enforced and if it's anarchy it can't be. Anarchy can exist man it's an inevitability.
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Offline Calandale

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Re: Libertarians
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2007, 08:47:38 AM »
Quote from: Mozart on December 02, 2007, 04:53:28 AM
i think of anarchy as an absense of the need for rules. when people reach full consciousness they will do the right thing because they want to.

Exactly as I take it. Some sort of utopian state,
requiring that humanity undergo a fundamental
change, before it's possible.

But, I think small groups CAN achieve such
a status. Everyone has to care deeply about
everyone else though - something I can't see
in any larger construct.


Quote from: Peagai on December 02, 2007, 08:10:08 AM
Quote from: Wagner on December 02, 2007, 03:52:54 AM
Quote from: Peagai on December 01, 2007, 07:53:35 PM
Libertarian Socialists are. Truth be told, that's probably more in my direction.

Certainly NOT. Enforced redistribution
of wealth has nothing in common with
anarchy.

Thing is, anarchy can't really exist. It
collapses. Power collates.

Hey man. I took Poly sci 1000 you can't fool me. Socialism doesn't have to be enforced and if it's anarchy it can't be. Anarchy can exist man it's an inevitability.

No? How then do you prevent people
from taking advantage of one another?
Even in the most egalitarian groups, there
is almost always SOME form of enforcement,
even though it could only be social status.

And yes, Anarchy IS inevitable. As a short term
collapsed state always shows. Whenever things
go to hell, that's your anarchy. Then, some strong
man comes in, and seizes power - perhaps making things
worse, but at least more predictable.
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