Brexit omelette with ham and cheese.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

Scrap, do you honestly believe the shite you're writing?

Like this for example:

BLM is an openly Marxist organization who has as one of its stated goals, to dismantle the nuclear family.

This line in itself is so fucking stupid and out of touch with reality, I don't even know where to begin... and you claim that I believe in complete nonsense?

BLM's aims are to tackle systemic racism, not to "dismantle the nuclear family", holy fuck 

"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise)."

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=dd1a8dcbf40cb3a70e58059470ea48b262b02daf-1594934458-0-AZyLtVV8o_qoTWTikwuwK2Nixm7E3MkSpqkLWQLg_1IkHa12G6vmhKWbUyEZ1Oq0kizUVd_1BM0OaYr1xaQPVOUdNwi26OnnynOFtc2nPvCSnxH05wa6srs-ANtyPMdpf5x_F4eX

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

Agree with BLM there. Disrupt =/= dismantle.

[Dirty Big Yoke]

Scrap, do you honestly believe the shite you're writing?

Like this for example:

BLM is an openly Marxist organization who has as one of its stated goals, to dismantle the nuclear family.

This line in itself is so fucking stupid and out of touch with reality, I don't even know where to begin... and you claim that I believe in complete nonsense?

BLM's aims are to tackle systemic racism, not to "dismantle the nuclear family", holy fuck 

"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise)."

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=dd1a8dcbf40cb3a70e58059470ea48b262b02daf-1594934458-0-AZyLtVV8o_qoTWTikwuwK2Nixm7E3MkSpqkLWQLg_1IkHa12G6vmhKWbUyEZ1Oq0kizUVd_1BM0OaYr1xaQPVOUdNwi26OnnynOFtc2nPvCSnxH05wa6srs-ANtyPMdpf5x_F4eX

How is disrupting expected family structures in society stopping people from having nuclear families? No one is going to stop you. This is a far cry from "dismantling", purely to make room for more options.

In fact this process has been going on for over half a century at this point - do you remember when single parents were demonised?

[Pyraxis]

It sounds like they're trying to expand the family, not dismantle it. Nuclear family PLUS the support of extended family and close friends/cohort. Ya know, like most of society used to be before we started relocating all over the country or the world, following jobs.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

What part of "Disrupt" did you guys miss??

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

What part of "Disrupt" did you guys miss??

I read the whole paragraph that contained the word "disrupt" rather than looking at a single word and drawing implications from that.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

People on the left voting for brexit are just as stupid, IMO.

Putting it down to stupidity, though, is papering over a LOT of issues that have led us to where we are.

Huge numbers of people are misinformed and terrified of leftists in general. The conservatives and the right know exactly what they are doing and they are extremely well funded and they know how to get into people's heads.

And the reality is that the working class and, increasingly, much of the middle class has been progressively getting screwed over for decades. They know that they are getting screwed over, they just don't know the mechanics of it. Many are buying the portrayal of leftists as "globalists" and blame the left for offshoring of manufacturing and service jobs, and immigration programs designed to undercut the rights and conditions of the working class and some professions. Immigration is not inherently a problem, immigration as a tool of neoliberalism IS inherently bad.

It was stupid in terms of the referendum (they could have gave multiple options rather than a simple yes/no, as there is on single agreed upon kind of brexit), and I do think the people who voted for it, regardless of their justification, are also stupid for thinking it was a good idea.

Regardless if you did it for some misguided aim to have a socialist utopia or not, it will fuck the country up. Hard. We're already seeing the effects of this (even before covid), and brexit hasn't even fully happened yet. I spent 4 years battling with mental health issues... purely because of it. It's fucking crazy.

This is why, as a leftist, I get annoyed at some other leftists - no concept of pragmatism at all. All they care about is ideological purity rather than the wellbeing of people.

But did the majority of people who voted for brexit do so because they weighed up the expert opinions and made an informed decision? Or did they vote for brexit because they were pissed off with the status quo, and had every right to be pissed off with the status quo?

This may come as a shock, but most people are neither smart nor well-informed. But they know when they are being screwed.

The mainstream left is no longer appealing to most people who should be leftists.

[Walkie]

What part of "Disrupt" did you guys miss??

I read the whole paragraph that contained the word "disrupt" rather than looking at a single word and drawing implications from that.

ditto

But did the majority of people who voted for brexit do so because they weighed up the expert opinions and made an informed decision? Or did they vote for brexit because they were pissed off with the status quo, and had every right to be pissed off with the status quo?

This may come as a shock, but most people are neither smart nor well-informed. But they know when they are being screwed.

The mainstream left is no longer appealing to most people who should be leftists.

Every time  I set out to respond  to this thread, some other thing distracts me.
Well, NVM, Gotta thank you. profusely  Mo, for making many of the points I wanted to make 

BTW, you forgot to say thats álmost entirely because the "mainstream left " are not actually Left. And neither is the EU.  People are not that daft, but the word  ""left" has become so corrupted that folk fail to find a word for what's lacking.

[Dirty Big Yoke]

What part of "Disrupt" did you guys miss??

What, are you annoyed that we didn't come to the same conclusion? I've read your link, and I'm not reggie, so my reading comprehension skills are pretty good.

The whole point of it all is to allow people to do whatever they want in terms of families without being shamed by current societal norms (which at the moment, puts nuclear families on a weird pedestal). Nuclear? Go for it. Single parenting? Sure! Extended families? Away you go!

As someone who deems themselves a libertarian, shouldn't you be fine with this?