Amanda Baggs' video

[Christopher McCandless]

Hadron: your ignorant masses don't often get aired on national television either. Who's to say their knee-jerk opinions are more dangerous to an "autistic cause" than the mistaken impression the masses of so-called whiners and fakers are giving?

If you want to debate Amanda Baggs, approach her yourself. You're the one who's concerned with her message, not me. My main concern here is sharpening my teeth in debate, in order to prepare for a completely urelated advocacy phone call I have to make tomorrow.

I have no real idea who she is or how to find her, maybe she is too busy making more of these videos to be found anyway...?
The knee jerk opinions are a problem for the simple number of them, if some of the crackpot schemes autism rights activists got anywhere of the ground alot of us would get daily beating for just walking along the streets...
Anyway, how come you are making an advocasy call tommorow...?

[Pyraxis]

Her blog is here: http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/. You can reach her by posting comments or by email, which takes the URL, removes the http://, and replaces the first dot with an @.

The knee jerk opinions are a problem for the simple number of them, if some of the crackpot schemes autism rights activists got anywhere of the ground alot of us would get daily beating for just walking along the streets...

I don't understand this. What do you mean by "the simple number of them"? The number of who?

I have to convince a health insurance company to provide interim coverage, or at the very least, expedite an application for acceptance of coverage, on behalf of a friend who will be in major trouble if there is an interruption in their health insurance.

[Christopher McCandless]

Her blog is here: http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/. You can reach her by posting comments or by email, which takes the URL, removes the http://, and replaces the first dot with an @.

The knee jerk opinions are a problem for the simple number of them, if some of the crackpot schemes autism rights activists got anywhere of the ground alot of us would get daily beating for just walking along the streets...

I don't understand this. What do you mean by "the simple number of them"? The number of who?

I have to convince a health insurance company to provide interim coverage, or at the very least, expedite an application for acceptance of coverage, on behalf of a friend who will be in major trouble if there is an interruption in their health insurance.

I could reach her like that but I tend to prefer public debate on an open forum, just my style.
How many ignorent NT's are there and how many Aspies are there, i kind of skewed that sentence.
You should move your friend to the UK. No insurence needed for healthcare at all...

[Pyraxis]

I could reach her like that but I tend to prefer public debate on an open forum, just my style.

If venue is that important to you, you could invite her here. I believe she already has an account, though I don't know how often she bothers to check it. But your protests are starting to sound like excuses.

How many ignorent NT's are there and how many Aspies are there, i kind of skewed that sentence.

More ignorant NT's than aspies, sure, but keep in mind that the average ignorant NT doesn't give a flying fuck about autism. Sure, they might spend a few minutes sniggering at the "retard", but then they'll go on with their lives without exerting a major influence on society. Nothing an organized political campaign can't change. One of the things political figureheads have to accept is that not everybody is going to like or understand their message.

You should move your friend to the UK. No insurence needed for healthcare at all...

That's actually not a bad last-resort idea (though it would take long enough that the trouble couldn't be avoided anyway). Would they offer healthcare even to a non-citizen?

[Christopher McCandless]

I could reach her like that but I tend to prefer public debate on an open forum, just my style.

If venue is that important to you, you could invite her here. I believe she already has an account, though I don't know how often she bothers to check it. But your protests are starting to sound like excuses.

How many ignorent NT's are there and how many Aspies are there, i kind of skewed that sentence.

More ignorant NT's than aspies, sure, but keep in mind that the average ignorant NT doesn't give a flying fuck about autism. Sure, they might spend a few minutes sniggering at the "retard", but then they'll go on with their lives without exerting a major influence on society. Nothing an organized political campaign can't change. One of the things political figureheads have to accept is that not everybody is going to like or understand their message.

You should move your friend to the UK. No insurence needed for healthcare at all...

That's actually not a bad last-resort idea (though it would take long enough that the trouble couldn't be avoided anyway). Would they offer healthcare even to a non-citizen?

Sure, the downside is I dont know her so she is unlikely to come here if I ask her. Even less likely as I have a total desire to remain anonimous. If she were to turn up here then i would debate it with her...
That is the way it is at the minute, but if society is changed so NT's do give a fuck about autism then aspie bashing would become a sport. Thats obviously somewhere I would like to avoid happening. Also bare in mind that NT's make decisions about us, if they think we are all retards when making this decisions then HFA people are going to be totally ignored in any form of help / assistance.
As for your friends healthcare, the simple answer is I do not know. There does seem to be alot of outraged articles in the Daily Mail about foreigners milking our health system though...

[Pyraxis]

Sure, the downside is I dont know her so she is unlikely to come here if I ask her. Even less likely as I have a total desire to remain anonimous.

You and Lucifer both, then. I can understand it, but it does limit one's power in defending a cause.

That is the way it is at the minute, but if society is changed so NT's do give a fuck about autism then aspie bashing would become a sport.

Hm. Last time I checked, aspie bashing was already a sport, people just don't know that the "losers" and "freaks" they're beating up have a diagnosable condition. I'm not sure that them adding the label to their retinue of insults would increase the number of people being fucked with.

Also bare in mind that NT's make decisions about us, if they think we are all retards when making this decisions then HFA people are going to be totally ignored in any form of help / assistance.

Valid concern, but it goes both ways. If only high-functioning people (and yes I know that term's debatable, but I don't have a better word for it) advocate, then the ones who have more trouble would be just as left out in the cold. I'm in favor of as many people speaking up as possible. Like you said, there are more NT's than autistics. We can't afford to silence our own.

[Christopher McCandless]

Sure, the downside is I dont know her so she is unlikely to come here if I ask her. Even less likely as I have a total desire to remain anonimous.

You and Lucifer both, then. I can understand it, but it does limit one's power in defending a cause.

That is the way it is at the minute, but if society is changed so NT's do give a fuck about autism then aspie bashing would become a sport.

Hm. Last time I checked, aspie bashing was already a sport, people just don't know that the "losers" and "freaks" they're beating up have a diagnosable condition. I'm not sure that them adding the label to their retinue of insults would increase the number of people being fucked with.

Also bare in mind that NT's make decisions about us, if they think we are all retards when making this decisions then HFA people are going to be totally ignored in any form of help / assistance.

Valid concern, but it goes both ways. If only high-functioning people (and yes I know that term's debatable, but I don't have a better word for it) advocate, then the ones who have more trouble would be just as left out in the cold. I'm in favor of as many people speaking up as possible. Like you said, there are more NT's than autistics. We can't afford to silence our own.

1. True I like to remain private, but I dont pull anything into a debate that I cannot back up within the domains of my privacy. You are right, it constrains my arguement, but I am used to it really, when you pretend to be an NTconstantly then you get well versed in being able to do it.
2. Aspie bashing is a bit of a sport to some people as it is now, but it can always become a more popular one. Particuarly when aspies are given unwelcome publicity, most bullying in schools revolves around what is currently in the media.
3. Certain times it is helpful to silence our own. For example if dear Cho who shot up Virginia Tech was publised as an aspie, then we would have has a big problem on our hands. Same with a large amount of people who currently run things in the world, their are an awful lot of closet aspies in high up positions, many nations are run by them, often in a backdoor manner. If they were forced out of the closet I think people would start to get pretty scared of us, given how much we actually run things in the world, it would be the Jew thing all over again...

[McGiver]

[GalileoAce]

Can I have some?

[Lucifer]

I think Lucifer is doing her usual routine of condescension and verbal maneouvering to cover her ass, being a sore loser even though it was just one point Hadron scored on her. Her criticism of Hadron is accurate. But "i don't reveal stuff about myself to people i don't know or trust" is immediately suspicious (not to mention a convenient "out" from the debate) and makes one wonder what she wants so badly to hide.

unfair, pyraxis, as you know full well how private a person i am, and have always been on whichever board i've posted on, and i know you feel the same way - at least in part - yourself.  "a convenient out" etc. is point scoring, and , i thought, beneath you.

a shame, because other than that, i agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your comments, as you also already know.

[The_P]

I think that if Hadron is going to rail against negative representation of an "autistic brand", he would be better off to go after the mass of people who come off as whiners and fakers to NT's. I'm not saying they are whiners and fakers for asking for supports that NT's don't understand the need for. But if they could be taught better advocacy skills, their requests wouldn't be rejected so offhandedly.

Of course, if one is to invest energy in teaching better advocacy skills, there are better ways to do it than ranting about a woman who isn't even here to defend herself. Hadron would be more effective to approach Amanda Baggs in person and offer suggestions on how to improve her message. By simply saying she should shut up if she can't act more "normal", he's effectively taking on the position of the NT's he claims to be fighting.

One has only to read through a few pages of comments on Amanda Baggs' site to realize how many people her message is reaching, with some semblance of accuracy. While anyone in a media spotlight has both positive and negative effects, she has done more good than harm.

Except for the Lucifer bit, I wholeheartedly agree with your post, Py.

[Christopher McCandless]

I think Lucifer is doing her usual routine of condescension and verbal maneouvering to cover her ass, being a sore loser even though it was just one point Hadron scored on her. Her criticism of Hadron is accurate. But "i don't reveal stuff about myself to people i don't know or trust" is immediately suspicious (not to mention a convenient "out" from the debate) and makes one wonder what she wants so badly to hide.

unfair, pyraxis, as you know full well how private a person i am, and have always been on whichever board i've posted on, and i know you feel the same way - at least in part - yourself.  "a convenient out" etc. is point scoring, and , i thought, beneath you.

a shame, because other than that, i agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your comments, as you also already know.

Lucifer, there is nothing wrong with being a private person, but dont open lines of conversation that you are unwilling to follow through. It would be nice if you opened up a bit though to a degree.

[Lucifer]

Lucifer, there is nothing wrong with being a private person,

how kind of you to allow me to be so. 

but dont open lines of conversation that you are unwilling to follow through.

bollocks.  it's up to me where i draw the line between privacy and disclosure, with regard to myself.  maybe you shoud think more about being a little less voracious in pursuing lines of enquiry which cross people's boundaries.

It would be nice if you opened up a bit though to a degree.

nice for whom?  and i do, thank you, to those i know and/or trust.

i'm beginning to feel like a parrot, repeating myself to you so often.

[Christopher McCandless]

Lucifer, there is nothing wrong with being a private person,

how kind of you to allow me to be so. 

but dont open lines of conversation that you are unwilling to follow through.

bollocks.  it's up to me where i draw the line between privacy and disclosure, with regard to myself.  maybe you shoud think more about being a little less voracious in pursuing lines of enquiry which cross people's boundaries.

It would be nice if you opened up a bit though to a degree.

nice for whom?  and i do, thank you, to those i know and/or trust.

i'm beginning to feel like a parrot, repeating myself to you so often.

Dont make claims that you are unwilling or unable to back up then. I seem to manage to avoid getting dragged down those lines, and i have the same privacy concerns. If you are going to argue with me then at least dont hide behind some artifical facade of imaginary lines, if i played the same game the way you did there would be no conversation whatsoever. As for knowing and trusting people, thats more or less impossible to do over a forum of this nature really...

[purposefulinsanity]

Where's the circular argument emoticon when you need it?