Wow I really am an assole (well accoring to AFF anyways)

[The_P]

Unless it becomes more egalitarian, I don't think that these communities sharing Temple Grandin's viewpoint on self-worth amongst autistics (keep the smart autistics, destroy the useless ones) are going to achieve much.

A flamer that is an egalitarian? Talk about an oxymoron.

[Christopher McCandless]

Unless it becomes more egalitarian, I don't think that these communities sharing Temple Grandin's viewpoint on self-worth amongst autistics (keep the smart autistics, destroy the useless ones) is going to achieve much.

A flamer that is an egalitarian? Talk about an oxymoron.

So lets get this straight, Temple Grandin wants to breed aspies, kill auties! 

[The_P]

Unless it becomes more egalitarian, I don't think that these communities sharing Temple Grandin's viewpoint on self-worth amongst autistics (keep the smart autistics, destroy the useless ones) is going to achieve much.

A flamer that is an egalitarian? Talk about an oxymoron.

So lets get this straight, Temple Grandin wants to breed aspies, kill auties! 

Pretty much. No wonder Anbuend (Amanda Baggs) feels that TG is a cocky cunt for a former low-functioner.

[ozymandias]

The female pedo, has been discussed elsewhere on I2.  It's an old discussion of about 2 months or so ago.  The "was has been declared on NT's" is a very stupid thing to do.  But, thats life for some aspie's!   All or nothing, going from one extreme to the other.  If things are really like that on AFF, I may have to rethink my defense of it.  Either way, AFF shut down for a week or so last year after a mega-flame war and troll attack was launched on it by some "Kill all NT's" assholes.  And they'v been having problems ever since, once every month or two it mysteriously shuts down and restarts for no reason.  They have switched hosting services after the BIG shutdown.   I just can't be bothered going back there, I'm too busy here and on my other forums.

Ok, ive had a look at this dear Graelwyn, this guy doesnt seem to be underage (16 is lawful in the UK). The war has been declared thread was saying that NT's that have declared war on us, not the other way, seemed to me to be a hell of an exageration to me (it was when the US spent $1bn on autism research). I wonder how come they ended up with a flame war.

Actually, I really don't give a horses ass about what goes on between her and the underage (for US) boy.   As for the war has been declared, well, some people see it as the money is all going to the "Curebie" groups.  Which some of it may be, but, a lot is being spent also on research for the genetic factor of it and a lot of other things related to autism.  A lot of the money is being sent on understanding autism and what can be done to help.  SOme people see that as condescending or threatening, even seeing it as the possible next "Holocaust".   Hysteria knows no reason!  And not all aspies are the calm, logical, superintelligent people that some aspies like to project an image as.   

So much for my bowing out of this discussion!

No problem, Peegai, you have your own mind and I respect and like that.  Your no fucking sheep, thats for sure.

Well as for money going to curbie groups, i dont care too much, they will spend it on idiotic things such as research into environmental causes and MMR and so on. The only thing that they could come up with is a pre-natal test, which i doubt would be a major problem, very few people would end up having it. AFF needs sorting out, if they are going to be anything that represents Aspies then they need a plan and some sensible rational, otherwise they are unlikely to ever achieve anything good for us, despite the best of intentions.

Ever since I have been on forums, thats about 7-8 years now.  There's been much talk/yelling/screaming/ for AS/Autism groups to unite and declare ourselves as people, too!  What has come up, not a helluva lot.  In fact the phrase most commonly used is,  "Trying to herd cats." .  In concept, a good idea, in reality, it's a joke.  And I do belong to several forums and browse 2-3 of them per day.  I'm here more often, because it's more active and I'v made some friends here.

[ozymandias]

Unless it becomes more egalitarian, I don't think that these communities sharing Temple Grandin's viewpoint on self-worth amongst autistics (keep the smart autistics, destroy the useless ones) is going to achieve much.

A flamer that is an egalitarian? Talk about an oxymoron.

So lets get this straight, Temple Grandin wants to breed aspies, kill auties! 

Pretty much. No wonder Anbuend (Amanda Baggs) feels that TG is a cocky cunt for a former low-functioner.

   I never knew that about her.  Temple Grandin that is.  I like Anbuend.

[Christopher McCandless]

Unless it becomes more egalitarian, I don't think that these communities sharing Temple Grandin's viewpoint on self-worth amongst autistics (keep the smart autistics, destroy the useless ones) is going to achieve much.

A flamer that is an egalitarian? Talk about an oxymoron.

So lets get this straight, Temple Grandin wants to breed aspies, kill auties! 

Pretty much. No wonder Anbuend (Amanda Baggs) feels that TG is a cocky cunt for a former low-functioner.

Amanda Baggs is little better, I have seen the article about her in New Scientist. How much is she attempting to embarrus us?

[Pyraxis]

What article? Link?

[Christopher McCandless]

The female pedo, has been discussed elsewhere on I2.  It's an old discussion of about 2 months or so ago.  The "was has been declared on NT's" is a very stupid thing to do.  But, thats life for some aspie's!   All or nothing, going from one extreme to the other.  If things are really like that on AFF, I may have to rethink my defense of it.  Either way, AFF shut down for a week or so last year after a mega-flame war and troll attack was launched on it by some "Kill all NT's" assholes.  And they'v been having problems ever since, once every month or two it mysteriously shuts down and restarts for no reason.  They have switched hosting services after the BIG shutdown.   I just can't be bothered going back there, I'm too busy here and on my other forums.

Ok, ive had a look at this dear Graelwyn, this guy doesnt seem to be underage (16 is lawful in the UK). The war has been declared thread was saying that NT's that have declared war on us, not the other way, seemed to me to be a hell of an exageration to me (it was when the US spent $1bn on autism research). I wonder how come they ended up with a flame war.

Actually, I really don't give a horses ass about what goes on between her and the underage (for US) boy.   As for the war has been declared, well, some people see it as the money is all going to the "Curebie" groups.  Which some of it may be, but, a lot is being spent also on research for the genetic factor of it and a lot of other things related to autism.  A lot of the money is being sent on understanding autism and what can be done to help.  SOme people see that as condescending or threatening, even seeing it as the possible next "Holocaust".   Hysteria knows no reason!  And not all aspies are the calm, logical, superintelligent people that some aspies like to project an image as.   

So much for my bowing out of this discussion!

No problem, Peegai, you have your own mind and I respect and like that.  Your no fucking sheep, thats for sure.

Well as for money going to curbie groups, i dont care too much, they will spend it on idiotic things such as research into environmental causes and MMR and so on. The only thing that they could come up with is a pre-natal test, which i doubt would be a major problem, very few people would end up having it. AFF needs sorting out, if they are going to be anything that represents Aspies then they need a plan and some sensible rational, otherwise they are unlikely to ever achieve anything good for us, despite the best of intentions.

Ever since I have been on forums, thats about 7-8 years now.  There's been much talk/yelling/screaming/ for AS/Autism groups to unite and declare ourselves as people, too!  What has come up, not a helluva lot.  In fact the phrase most commonly used is,  "Trying to herd cats." .  In concept, a good idea, in reality, it's a joke.  And I do belong to several forums and browse 2-3 of them per day.  I'm here more often, because it's more active and I'v made some friends here.

There are things that can be done as unitary exercise, they are just a little risky...
Pyraxis, it was a while back and I only have a paper copy of NS. I just remember her discussing stimming, and how great it was.

[The_P]

Unless it becomes more egalitarian, I don't think that these communities sharing Temple Grandin's viewpoint on self-worth amongst autistics (keep the smart autistics, destroy the useless ones) is going to achieve much.

A flamer that is an egalitarian? Talk about an oxymoron.

So lets get this straight, Temple Grandin wants to breed aspies, kill auties! 

Pretty much. No wonder Anbuend (Amanda Baggs) feels that TG is a cocky cunt for a former low-functioner.

Amanda Baggs is little better, I have seen the article about her in New Scientist. How much is she attempting to embarrus us?

Us? I'm not a member of some imaginary tribe. I simply share a label such as yourself, and that's it.

If you want to know more about this issue, look for Amanda Bagg's blog entry on this via Google.

[The_P]

What article? Link?

http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=27

Lazy fuckers.

Oh, hi Pyraxis. How goes it?

[Christopher McCandless]

Unless it becomes more egalitarian, I don't think that these communities sharing Temple Grandin's viewpoint on self-worth amongst autistics (keep the smart autistics, destroy the useless ones) is going to achieve much.

A flamer that is an egalitarian? Talk about an oxymoron.

So lets get this straight, Temple Grandin wants to breed aspies, kill auties! 

Pretty much. No wonder Anbuend (Amanda Baggs) feels that TG is a cocky cunt for a former low-functioner.

Amanda Baggs is little better, I have seen the article about her in New Scientist. How much is she attempting to embarrus us?

Us? I'm not a member of some imaginary tribe. I simply share a label such as yourself, and that's it.

If you want to know more about this issue, look for Amanda Bagg's blog entry on this via Google.

Yes I see it as little more than a brand name too. So really she is devaluing our brand, and making those within it look like total fools.

[Lucifer]

i doubt it - anubend is one of the most articulate, intelligent and thoughtful people i've ever come across.  there's no way she could make anything associated with herself look like a fool.

[Callaway]

I wonder if it is possible that Temple Grandin did not mean it the way it sounds, because it sounds really bad.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.html?name=News&file=article&sid=295

Reposted for the people who can't see it there:

Interview with Temple Grandin

 I recently had the amazing opportunity of speaking to the most well-known autistic individual in the world, Dr. Temple Grandin. Dr. Grandin has appeared on the Today Show, Larry King Live, 48 hours, ABC's Primetime Live, and 20/20. She has been featured in publications such as Time Magazine, People Magazine, Forbes, U.S. News and World Report, and the New York Times. She is well-respected for desigining the majority of livestock facilities in the United States.

What follows is the transcript text of my video interview With Temple Grandin. A video and transcript of her FutureQuest keynote speech will be available in the future.


WrongPlanet.net:What do you think about curing Autism? You've said things like "genius comes from autism" but you've also supported the ABA.


Temple Grandin:Well the thing is, with a little bit of autism, you know, if you have mild autism, you'll get genius like einstein. Too much of autism, you're going to have a severely handicapped child who's going to remain nonverbal and if you don't do things like aba, they're not going to function at all. There is no way with any treatment they have that you're going to cure autism. There's basic abnormalities in brain development.

I would think in an ideal world, you don't want to have people who cant talk, but on the other hand, you definitely don't want to get rid of all of the autism genetics becvause if you did that, there'd be no scientists. After all, who do you think made the first stone spear back in the caves? It wasn't the really social people.

If we didn't have a little of the autism trait we wouldn't even have this building here today with all the electricity in it, your video camera, powerpoint shows... None of this stuff would even exist.



WP: So if there were something that cured all the autism genes, you wouldn't support that?.


TG:No, I would not support that. becase there is a point where mild autistic traits are part of normal human variation. Because on the other end of the spectrum you have Williams Syndrome, and if you look at the brain abnormalities, they're exactly the opposite of autism. the whole back of the brain, where the hard drive is--there isn't too much there. But all the social emotional circuits are hooked up so [people with Williams Syndrome] are hyper, hyper, social. I'm gonna bet you there's a lot of yackety yackety salesman that don't talk about much of anything who are Williams Syndrome variants. But then you get to a point where a person [with Autism] cannot talk, they're self inuring themselves, and they cannot live independently. That [is something] you would want to eliminate, if possible, but you would not want to get rid of all the autism genes because you wouldn't have any computers-- you wouldn't have any scientists.

WP: I know there are groups like Cure Autism Now who are looking to test for Autism before someone is born. What are your thoughts on prenatal testing?


TG: Well, the problem with autistic traits, it's a continuum of traits.

WP:Right, a spectrum


TG: and [with] a little bit of the trait, you get einstein. There is a book called Asperger's and Self Esteem and its about famous scientists and musicians that probably were aspergers.

The genetics of it are probably going to be complicated. There is not going to be one single gene for autism. So i think they're quite a ways away from a genetic test. Its not like fragile x syndrome where there is a very obvious genetic abnormality.

WP: What do you think about online communication and the role it plays with helping HFA and aspergers communicate more because there are obviously a lot of websites out there where people can get help with social stuff.


TG: HI think thats a helpful thing--I think thats a really really helpful thing. But the things I feel very strongly about are things like developing your career. I'm a livestock handling specialist first and autistic secondly. And I think all of these websites are a really good thing but you don't want to have that take over where you're not working on your career in computer science which is extremely important. You also want to be on other websites for computer science where you're talking about things related to your job.

There is not enough emphasis in the special ed field on careers. Thats why I have my little book called developing talents. Because the thing about the autistic brain--it tends to be a specialist brain--good at one thing, bad at something else. And we need to be getting into a lot more emphasis on developing what they can be good at.

What you have to do is sell your skills rather than yourself. I'm a big believer in making portfolios. Make a nice portfolio of some of your very best coding. People are going to look at that and say 'wow, that's really good coding'.

That's something I've had to do my whole life-- I mean, I sold jobs by sending out a portfolio of drawings and picturees of jobs i have designed. I sell my work rather than myself.

The problem with the whole thing on curing autism is we do want to do something about low functioning autism. But the upper end.

WP:What do you think about the social aspect with Aspergers?


TG:I think there are basic social skills people need to learn. In my field there are lots of 40 and 50 year old head of maintenance engineers that are Aspergers and i think they're functioning because in the 50s, basic social skills were drilled into all kids. Things like manners, things like not being rude. And in today's society being looser, I think it really hurts the Aspergers children. I had table manners drilled into me as a child. I had things like please and thank you drilled into me as a child. And when I look back at that, that was really a good thing. And I'm seeing way too many Asperger kids who are total slobs. There is just no excuse for that. And you happen to look very nice. I want to commend you for that.

WP:Thank you.


TG: When I was little i was taught to say please and thank you, that I couldn't comment on fat ladies in the supermarket. And I recently went to a talent show at an autism school and some of [the kids] were dressed as complete slobs in front of 500 people. I think that's ridiculous.

WP: When were you diagnosed?


TG:Well, I'm fifty-eight so I was originally diagnosed as brain damaged. And I had the full blown symptoms. I had no speech until I was three and half to four years old.

WP: What are your thoughts on coping with an adulthood diagnosis?

 

TG: Well I think the most important thing that I find is happening is a lot of people are functioning reasonably well at work but their married life is a mess because the spouse doesn't understand what's going on. The best thing in that situation is reading a lot of books.


Sometimes in an adult a formal diagnose isn't all that wise. I think a lot of people can get the DSM-IV from amazon read the criteria and they're done. And a lot of these older engineers don't even know what aspergers is...


I get concerned that sometimes this diagnosis can hold a person back.


See, the thing is, It's a continuum. When does a computer nerd become Aspergers? There is no black and white dividing line. I was full blown autistic, but then as you move up the scale to science nerds--as you move up the scale, when is computer nerd a medical diagnosis? It's not clear cut.

I think the Human brain is so complicated that an absolutely perfectly wired human brain wouldn't ever be possible.

[Callaway]

What article? Link?

I'm guessing this one, although only New Scientist suscribers can see the whole article:

http://www.newscientisttech.com/channel/tech/mg19325917.100-when-sociable-computing-meets-autism.html

[The_P]

Didn't mean it? Please. She's a self-serving old bitch with a god-complex categorising the useless autistics and the useful ones. She acted like a helpless retard when she was younger, and now that her mind has grasped most of the social norms, she's become an egotist with a penchant for eugenics.

Give her a few more years, and then she'll suffer from pure dementia, the silly old granny. Mwahahaha!