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Author Topic: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement  (Read 3261 times)

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Offline Merry Widow

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2006, 12:15:35 PM »
Being socially inept was a staple of movies for decades. You ever see Pretty In Pink? The guy was a teenager learning how to socialize. Not a person with a disease that needed medicine and doctors.

no, i haven't seen Pretty In Pink. but i'm pretty sure that this character, that you speak of, was capable of communicating with others beyond just saying "yeah," "sorry" and "hahaha" - which is the level that i'm ?at, most of the time.

all my life, i've had to work several times harder than others - only to get less results than those who don't try as hard as i do. and then, on top of that, i have to deal with ignorant cunts like you telling me that i should try even harder.

i remember you saying that you saw a "miracle" the other day, Happeh. well, i've not achieved anything special in my lifetime, so far. i've had one relationship (that lasted almost a year) and a few low-paid jobs. that may not sound like anything special to most people but, when i compare myself to how i used to be, i realise that i am ?a miracle. and the thing that makes it truly miraculous is that i achieved it despite the fact that i had people like you all around me, telling me that i was to blame for the difficulties i had.

all i have to do when i want to know how disastrous my life could've been is to look at my father - his parents punished him continuously throughout his childhood because they thought he was a badly behaved child (AS had not been officially identified when he was a kid). is it any wonder that he turned to (and became addicted to) heroin, in his twenties, to escape the emotional pain of having been relentlessly persecuted by the two people who should have accepted him the way he was? he's never been able to hold down a job. he married my mother, but his wife's family hate him because they all think he's a creepy arsehole (even though he's never done anything to hurt anyone). and now, in his early sixties, he's not sure how much of this miserable life he's got left because all the years of drug abuse has damaged his liver.

if people had known, in the forties, what they know about AS today, my dad's life could've been completely different. he's extremely intelligent; who knows what he would've achieved, with the right guidance? but - just to keep everyone else "Happeh" - let's just pretend AS doesn't exist, okay? ?::)

peegai

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2006, 12:59:20 PM »
Heh well you get some disability rights people who do recognise aspergers some who don't. Were abit of an enigma really.

Getting labeled as having a disability is the first step to victimhood. Then the rest of your life, everything that happens to you is "because you are disabled".

Did you ever notice how having a disease is becoming a status symbol? Dyslexia, Aspergers, blah blah?

Doctors make this stuff up to make people happy so they give the doctors money. How much money have you given to a doctor for your "disability"? Which in the old days used to be considered a normal part of growing up.

Being socially inept was a staple of movies for decades. You ever see Pretty In Pink? The guy was a teenager learning how to socialize. Not a person with a disease that needed medicine and doctors.

Normality is being "disease-ified" for monetary reasons.

Autism is not pathological -- it's a common misconception.

duncvis

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2006, 01:06:02 PM »
I can hardly breathe for laughing...  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Happeh, you have missed your vocation. Instead of wasting your time peddling your 'theory' and convincing yourself that you re the only person with any intelligence in the world, you should have become a stand-up comedian.

FYI,

1 - Last time I checked, I was a rather large, hairy, adult male. This suggests further that your powers of perception on teh intarweb are less than stellar.  ::)

2 - That wasn't a tantrum, pal. You have a long way to go before you succeed in pissing me off. I have a naturally foul mouth, I'm a working class English bloke. Duh. I was merely pointing out that you don't have a clue what you are talking about - I think I've made my point. :P :laugh:

peegai

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2006, 01:20:18 PM »
This page is very interesting...

Offline Praetor

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2006, 02:43:29 AM »
Quote
Doctors make this stuff up to make people happy so they give the doctors money. How much money have you given to a doctor for your "disability"? Which in the old days used to be considered a normal part of growing up.

?0  ;D

Offline Happeh

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2006, 10:26:50 AM »
Being socially inept was a staple of movies for decades. You ever see Pretty In Pink? The guy was a teenager learning how to socialize. Not a person with a disease that needed medicine and doctors.

no, i haven't seen Pretty In Pink. but i'm pretty sure that this character, that you speak of, was capable of communicating with others beyond just saying "yeah," "sorry" and "hahaha" - which is the level that i'm ?at, most of the time.

all my life, i've had to work several times harder than others - only to get less results than those who don't try as hard as i do. and then, on top of that, i have to deal with ignorant cunts like you telling me that i should try even harder.

Did I say that?

i remember you saying that you saw a "miracle" the other day, Happeh. well, i've not achieved anything special in my lifetime, so far. i've had one relationship (that lasted almost a year) and a few low-paid jobs. that may not sound like anything special to most people but, when i compare myself to how i used to be, i realise that i am ?a miracle. and the thing that makes it truly miraculous is that i achieved it despite the fact that i had people like you all around me, telling me that i was to blame for the difficulties i had.].

What makes no sense to me is that you act like you are alone. The majority of the people in the world are just like you. They do the best they can and people talk smack to them as a reward. Whether they have Asperger's or something else or nothing at all. That is how life is. You haven't been picked out special for any kind of trouble.

all i have to do when i want to know how disastrous my life could've been is to look at my father - his parents punished him continuously throughout his childhood because they thought he was a badly behaved child (AS had not been officially identified when he was a kid). is it any wonder that he turned to (and became addicted to) heroin, in his twenties, to escape the emotional pain of having been relentlessly persecuted by the two people who should have accepted him the way he was? he's never been able to hold down a job. he married my mother, but his wife's family hate him because they all think he's a creepy arsehole (even though he's never done anything to hurt anyone). and now, in his early sixties, he's not sure how much of this miserable life he's got left because all the years of drug abuse has damaged his liver.

if people had known, in the forties, what they know about AS today, my dad's life could've been completely different. he's extremely intelligent; who knows what he would've achieved, with the right guidance? but - just to keep everyone else "Happeh" - let's just pretend AS doesn't exist, okay? ?::)

I don't agree. I think it is easy to say that "bad behavior" is Asperger's. I think that is an excuse.

Have you ever been around black kids? Black kids are hell. Really. They will not listen, they yell and scream and fight. It is a nightmare. Ask any teacher. Read your newspaper to see what school is like these days.

Are you saying that all of those black kids have Asperger's? I don't believe that. It is part of their culture. Black kids are more independent. They do not have the urge to be a slave bred into them the way white people do. White people are docile. They do most anything you tell them to. That is why they are so good in the corporate world. They will sit at a desk pressing keys like a monkey for the entire day without a complaint.

I don't think that being spirited, independent, or having parents that do not know how to raise children is a reason to put an Asperger's label on someone.

In my opinion, lots of people have lost the ability or the knowledge of how to raise human beings properly. Human beings have energy. If you know this, you will treat people a certain way and raise kids a certain way. A way that is more knowledgeable about the relationship and interactions between people.

If you do not know or do not believe that people have energy, then things seem mysterious to you. People seem to behave in unpredicatable and capricious ways. It is not that people are unpredictable. It is that you do not know how to read the signs of what is going on with another person because you don't believe in energy. If their energy is getting angry and you keep pushing them...then they blow up and hit you.....you think the person went crazy and attacked you out of nowhere. But if you knew about energy, you would have felt them getting angry and you could have chosen another way to deal with the situation.

I think that by labeling something "Aspergers", it gives people a reason to quit. They can say "I have a disease, I am stuck". If you tell them the don't have a disease, ,hey just don't know about energy, their own energy, how to manage it and make it grow, and how to interact with other people's energy in a proper and healthy way, then instead of giving up, maybe they would go get a book or find a person to teach them about energy.

There is the defeatism of "I have Aspergers". Or the positive outlook of "I need to learn this energy stuff or whatever to make myself fit into society better and make myself a better person".

Offline Happeh

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2006, 10:29:19 AM »
I can hardly breathe for laughing...? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Happeh, you have missed your vocation. Instead of wasting your time peddling your 'theory' and convincing yourself that you re the only person with any intelligence in the world, you should have become a stand-up comedian.

I am not good in front of crowds. Although I do think up what I feel are funny jokes from time to time.

FYI,

1 - Last time I checked, I was a rather large, hairy, adult male. This suggests further that your powers of perception on teh intarweb are less than stellar.? ::)

2 - That wasn't a tantrum, pal. You have a long way to go before you succeed in pissing me off. I have a naturally foul mouth, I'm a working class English bloke. Duh. I was merely pointing out that you don't have a clue what you are talking about - I think I've made my point. :P :laugh:

I don't have a clue what I am talking about? Because I thought you were a woman?

Maybe you ought to consider that your speech mannerism portray yourself as womanish, before you tell other people they are reaching wrong conclusions. ;)

duncvis

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2006, 10:40:25 AM »
Or on the other hand you could take your head out of your arse before using your keyboard. :P :laugh:

By the way, I'm secure enough not to be that bothered whether some dullard on the net thinks I might not be a bloke. I just find it hilarious when you make an ad hominem attack on me on that faulty premise.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2006, 10:43:11 AM by duncvis »

Offline Merry Widow

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2006, 11:19:29 AM »
and then, on top of that, i have to deal with ignorant cunts like you telling me that i should try even harder.

Did I say that?

no, that was not your exact wording. but it was the general meaning of your post.

What makes no sense to me is that you act like you are alone.

no. i am quite aware that there are others "like me" and that there are people, out there, who are far, far worse off than me. but, that doesn't make my difficulties any less real.

The majority of the people in the world are just like you.

oh, really. so, the majority of people in the world find it as challenging to communicate with members of their own family as they do with complete strangers, do they? when growing-up, did the majority of people in the world prefer to collect pieces of fluff (fibres off clothing etc) rather than play with other children, as i did? if the majority of people in the world are just like me, then i won't get any strange looks off people when fail to resist the urge to rock myself and flap my hands in public, will i?

I don't agree. I think it is easy to say that "bad behavior" is Asperger's. I think that is an excuse.

AS is not simply "bad" behaviour. it is a set of specific cognitive differences that have been observed and verified by many qualified specialist doctors. although, i don't expect you ?to appreciate the significance of good, old-fashioned scientific research, Happeh. ?::)

I think that by labeling something "Aspergers", it gives people a reason to quit. They can say "I have a disease, I am stuck". If you tell them the don't have a disease, ,hey just don't know about energy, their own energy, how to manage it and make it grow, and how to interact with other people's energy in a proper and healthy way, then instead of giving up, maybe they would go get a book or find a person to teach them about energy.

i cannot speak for everyone but, personally, i have made my best progress since i found out that i have AS (age 22). having my problem areas identified for me has helped me to improve which faults it is within my power to change. having said that, i have also stopped blaming myself for the things that i cannot change, no matter how hard i try. as you can imagine, my psychological health has benefited greatly from this.

Offline Praetor

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2006, 01:35:02 PM »
Happeh confession time, your a scientologist arn't you it sounds like all that pseudo-anti-psychology/psychiatricry mental health does not exist crap. Funny that there actually is a very significant and powerful argument to be made against psychology and here you are nit picking at people for "how disabled are you, your not really your a normalized person with a label" Well disability is a social construct but its also linked with the human body and its the most utterly rare thing in the universe for anyone to go through life without any kind of disability being afflicted on them. Infact the ironcy is that I can't distinguish you from a radical disability rights nutcase who would be on the polar end of this pseudo argument your trying unsuccesfully to make because objective rationale thinking has yet to take hold here.

Am I disabled? No I can walk, talk, I have an IQ medically speaking in the top 2% of the UK population. Who disables me? Society does and thats because its a social construct but the physically and intellectually disabaled people of this world experiance it too. Ive never said to any organisation or body I am disabled, I do not believe I am and I have neglected claiming various government benefits to protest that.

Sexuality is a social construct, ethnic minorities are social construct, gender is a social construct. Its so oversimplifying of a person here to simply say oh your normal yadada. I have met omega lady face to face and I can tell you she does have communication difficulty and for you to simply say "try harder stop thinking your a cripple" is immensly patronising for someone, its like telling a rape victim to get over it quite frankly. Most people become pro-active in improving their life others want to become reactionary because they are so reduced as a person that it is all their life has become worth in order to carry on a false hope of living a life.

I dont follow your oversimplistic assumptive and naive argument at all and unless you are an experianced academic/activist or have been involved in disability rights, working with any kind of disabaled population or have studied disability rights I think you've no place really trying to tell people anything if its just you sitting down being your own sociologist on the internet go out and prove something before you come on here and tell people how to run their life.


Offline Lucifer

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2006, 02:32:47 PM »
happeh, if i am a "normalised person with a label who should try harder", how come i've been trying my fucking damnedest for over 40 years, and yet STILL feel practically suicidal because i can't do things most other people take for granted?

you patronising cunt.

sorry about the lack of intelligent and pithy verbiage, but you picked exactly the wrong time to start banging on about AS being a "trendy label".

go fuck youself with one of your highlighting pens.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2006, 02:38:21 PM by Lucifer »

peegai

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2006, 03:02:13 PM »
I'm sorry -- and I know this is fucking childish (do I give a shit?) -- but...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Shuggy/GOFUCKYOURSELF.png

Offline Callaway

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2006, 05:13:13 PM »
I don't agree. I think it is easy to say that "bad behavior" is Asperger's. I think that is an excuse.

Have you ever been around black kids? Black kids are hell. Really. They will not listen, they yell and scream and fight. It is a nightmare. Ask any teacher. Read your newspaper to see what school is like these days.

Are you saying that all of those black kids have Asperger's? I don't believe that. It is part of their culture. Black kids are more independent. They do not have the urge to be a slave bred into them the way white people do. White people are docile. They do most anything you tell them to. That is why they are so good in the corporate world. They will sit at a desk pressing keys like a monkey for the entire day without a complaint.

I don't think that being spirited, independent, or having parents that do not know how to raise children is a reason to put an Asperger's label on someone.

In my opinion, lots of people have lost the ability or the knowledge of how to raise human beings properly. Human beings have energy. If you know this, you will treat people a certain way and raise kids a certain way. A way that is more knowledgeable about the relationship and interactions between people.

If you do not know or do not believe that people have energy, then things seem mysterious to you. People seem to behave in unpredicatable and capricious ways. It is not that people are unpredictable. It is that you do not know how to read the signs of what is going on with another person because you don't believe in energy. If their energy is getting angry and you keep pushing them...then they blow up and hit you.....you think the person went crazy and attacked you out of nowhere. But if you knew about energy, you would have felt them getting angry and you could have chosen another way to deal with the situation.

How many children have you raised, Happeh?  Judging based on your nonsensical drivel on the subject of parenting, I would guess the number is zero.

How many black people do you know well, Happeh?  I would guess from what you said about the behavior of 'black kids' in such a generalized way, the answer to that is also zero.  It seems extremely racist and highly insulting to make such generalizations about people, based only on the color of their skin.  Are you a racist, Happeh?

Finally, how many people with Asperger Syndrome or some other ASD do you know well, Happeh?  Based on your comments about us, I would guess this number is also zero.  It would be better for you to get to know as individuals some people who are different from you instead of making all these unfounded generalizations about them.  Asperger Syndrome is not an excuse for bad behavior, but there are some definite differences that make some things more difficult for people with AS or another ASD than they are for people who are considered neurotypical, and those difficulties should be taken into account when dealing with people.

I think that by labeling something "Aspergers", it gives people a reason to quit. They can say "I have a disease, I am stuck". If you tell them the don't have a disease, ,hey just don't know about energy, their own energy, how to manage it and make it grow, and how to interact with other people's energy in a proper and healthy way, then instead of giving up, maybe they would go get a book or find a person to teach them about energy.

There is the defeatism of "I have Aspergers". Or the positive outlook of "I need to learn this energy stuff or whatever to make myself fit into society better and make myself a better person".

Do you really think you are the first person to suggest we should just try harder to fit into society?  Do you think that idea has never occurred to us before?  Do you think our problem is that we just give up and we don't even try?  I guess I should not be surprised by this because you seem to make generalizations about people all the time without knowing facts.

Offline McGiver

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2006, 04:31:15 PM »
heppah,
do you admit yet that purposeful insanity kicked your enlarged arse over the masterbation issue.
and that people on this website are masterbating even more than before you showed up with your enlightened theory.

no you have hijacked a thread which goes to the very foundation of the people on this website (bettement issues for HFA).

are you so small a person that you cannot show support for people simly because they wank their noodle or fiddle their diddle?  why don't you start your own thread about some theories of yours and allow the people to discuss the merits of them.  because quite frankly i am a little broken hearted to see what you have reduced yourself to.

BTW-you are not even close to being banned yet.  if in fact that is your personal little competition game.  but keep up the good work nontheless, you are making some people who are unsure of themselves to begin to feel confidence, as opposed to your ignorance.
Misunderstood.

Offline Praetor

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Re: Asperger syndrome and the disability rights movement
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2006, 04:15:40 PM »
back on topic pls

Im going away for the weekend.

When I return (now im off uni for 5 weeks) im gonna post up feedback from the Nordic talk on disability I attended for discussion, it was very interesting.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2006, 10:52:33 AM by Praetor »