Where did the US screw up?

[DirtDawg]

It's the notion that an elitist few make up the whole is where I am exhausted. I'm done with that bullshit.

I'm saying your government screws over the underdog. 

As if they all don't? Wake up!
Try to imagine where your country would be without the billions of US$, which you seem to have disdain for, that have crossed the ocean for your benefit. You should not ask for an apology. You should remove your hat and offer a humble thank you, since German is not your country's first language.

I'm really done, though, because I am not so patriotic as to promote the conditions here with a full heart, but I am tired of people thinking that we, as a whole, are nothing more than the Bush administration.

I don't want the fullness of my disgust to be personal, so I will offer an apology to you, for calling you names, but get off the fucking soap box. There are many of us who feel the same way as you and we are trying to do the best we can on a daily basis. The present may be lost, but the future is where our hope lies and there is quite a bit of good here which makes the USA worth the salvage efforts.

I believe I said your government treats it's people like shit and you eventually agreed with me, but you have put me down every chance you had, despite deliberately misinterpreting what I have clearly said several times. 

You can stick your apology up your ass.

Very well, then.
I honestly don't see how I have misinterpreted your statements.

You have basically said that we are all shit, because of our government's corruption. I am not agreeing.

I am not putting you down - only pointing out your double standard.

[QuirkyCarla]

John Howard and Tony Blair are no better than Bush IMO since they support him. People in other countries love to complain about what the USA is doing, but their own prime ministers don't help anything.

[QuirkyCarla]

I don't think there is a specific point where the USA screwed up. I think the USA screwed up in a lot of different places. I think a large part of it though is that a lot of people here don't care/aren't educated enough about politics and world affairs. In addition, the two party system needs to change.

I may elaborate more later when I get back from work.

[Eclair]

It's the notion that an elitist few make up the whole is where I am exhausted. I'm done with that bullshit.

I'm saying your government screws over the underdog. 

As if they all don't? Wake up!
Try to imagine where your country would be without the billions of US$, which you seem to have disdain for, that have crossed the ocean for your benefit. You should not ask for an apology. You should remove your hat and offer a humble thank you, since German is not your country's first language.

I'm really done, though, because I am not so patriotic as to promote the conditions here with a full heart, but I am tired of people thinking that we, as a whole, are nothing more than the Bush administration.

I don't want the fullness of my disgust to be personal, so I will offer an apology to you, for calling you names, but get off the fucking soap box. There are many of us who feel the same way as you and we are trying to do the best we can on a daily basis. The present may be lost, but the future is where our hope lies and there is quite a bit of good here which makes the USA worth the salvage efforts.

I believe I said your government treats it's people like shit and you eventually agreed with me, but you have put me down every chance you had, despite deliberately misinterpreting what I have clearly said several times. 

You can stick your apology up your ass.

Very well, then.
I honestly don't see how I have misinterpreted your statements.

You have basically said that we are all shit, because of our government's corruption. I am not agreeing.

I am not putting you down - only pointing out your double standard.

I NEVER said that, thank you very much.
The essence of my argument was that your government spends way too much on it's image of being a super power, yet lets it's own citizens down with a very weak health system, amongst other things.  What is so hard to grasp about that 

My government, I agree, spends way too much time up your government's ass and I do believe earlier that I said most Australians would agree with me.

[maldoror]

People in Europe and the Commonwealth who assume we're more supportive of our government than they are of theirs are at least as uninformed as they say we are. It's the big irony of global politics. "Americans think they're so great, they're full of themselves, they only talk about how great their country is, but here in country X we have Y and they don't have that! How can they consider themselves better than us?"

[Eamonn]

I agree. People are individuals many of whom are nice many of whom are not but put them together and tribal dominance predjudice and stupidity prevails. Non-Americans who claim all Americans are bigheaded idiots are just as guilty of simple-minded generalisations as any Yanks who do blow their own trumpet and insult other cultures. None of the big superpowers beforehand or were altruistic and the same occurs just now and other governments like my own are in it together with the Bush administration when it comes to feathering the nest of the rich and powerful. In rivers and your toilet bowl it's often the shite that floats to the top.

[Eclair]

People in Europe and the Commonwealth who assume we're more supportive of our government than they are of theirs are at least as uninformed as they say we are. It's the big irony of global politics. "Americans think they're so great, they're full of themselves, they only talk about how great their country is, but here in country X we have Y and they don't have that! How can they consider themselves better than us?"

OK, where did I say that I assume Americans were super supportive of their goverment?  I do believe that your government wants to sell the idea of a super power to the people, which relates back to my comment of 'brainwashing'....probably not the best word....but anyway, a flashy salesman.  Yes, a lot of governments are like that.  Ours is more like the uptight parent who says, 'it's for your own good, you just don't know it yet'.

My initial comments were that I was annoyed that Alex was carrying on as if being a super power was a great thing.  I believe it is not, especially when it is at the expense of the health etc of the country.

And that's about the last time I am going to try and explain my viewpoint.  

[maldoror]

People in Europe and the Commonwealth who assume we're more supportive of our government than they are of theirs are at least as uninformed as they say we are. It's the big irony of global politics. "Americans think they're so great, they're full of themselves, they only talk about how great their country is, but here in country X we have Y and they don't have that! How can they consider themselves better than us?"

OK, where did I say that I assume Americans were super supportive of their goverment?

Where did I say you did?

I do believe that your government wants to sell the idea of a super power to the people, which relates back to my comment of 'brainwashing'....probably not the best word....but anyway, a flashy salesman.  Yes, a lot of governments are like that.  Ours is more like the uptight parent who says, 'it's for your own good, you just don't know it yet'.

And why do you believe that exactly? Have you lived here? In reality, there's no reason for them to want to "sell" us that idea. If America does have the resources by which it would be considered a superpower (whatever that means), it doesn't do any good for them to go touting that around to win elections; in actuality the opposite has been true lately, that Bush has been manipulating us through fear and vulnerability. If people percieve that we consider ourselves a superpower, that's them extrapolating.

My initial comments were that I was annoyed that Alex was carrying on as if being a super power was a great thing.  I believe it is not, especially when it is at the expense of the health etc of the country.

And that's about the last time I am going to try and explain my viewpoint. 

Explaining your viewpoint is one thing, but as an American I'm getting sick of being accused of being brainwashed, ignorant, and ethnocentric online. I'm not saying you did, but this is what fuels my reaction.

[QuirkyCarla]

It's the notion that an elitist few make up the whole is where I am exhausted. I'm done with that bullshit.

I'm saying your government screws over the underdog. 

As if they all don't? Wake up!
Try to imagine where your country would be without the billions of US$, which you seem to have disdain for, that have crossed the ocean for your benefit. You should not ask for an apology. You should remove your hat and offer a humble thank you, since German is not your country's first language.

I'm really done, though, because I am not so patriotic as to promote the conditions here with a full heart, but I am tired of people thinking that we, as a whole, are nothing more than the Bush administration.

I don't want the fullness of my disgust to be personal, so I will offer an apology to you, for calling you names, but get off the fucking soap box. There are many of us who feel the same way as you and we are trying to do the best we can on a daily basis. The present may be lost, but the future is where our hope lies and there is quite a bit of good here which makes the USA worth the salvage efforts.

I believe I said your government treats it's people like shit and you eventually agreed with me, but you have put me down every chance you had, despite deliberately misinterpreting what I have clearly said several times. 

You can stick your apology up your ass.

Very well, then.
I honestly don't see how I have misinterpreted your statements.

You have basically said that we are all shit, because of our government's corruption. I am not agreeing.

I am not putting you down - only pointing out your double standard.

I NEVER said that, thank you very much.
The essence of my argument was that your government spends way too much on it's image of being a super power, yet lets it's own citizens down with a very weak health system, amongst other things.  What is so hard to grasp about that 

My government, I agree, spends way too much time up your government's ass and I do believe earlier that I said most Australians would agree with me.

The health system in Australia doesn't seem any better than the one in the US.

[Calandale]

No you are wrong, the poor have to be kept alive, living on the breadline, so they can at least shop at Walmart and buy bullets and cheap Chinese produced crap so the Walmart executives can drive around in Porsches and pay the rental on apartments for numerous blondes under the age of twenty to fuck their brains out.

I was referring to those too sick to
be at all productive, or even decent
consumers of anything other than
the medical industry.

And no, the welfare state is mostly
dead. Replaced by the "hold lots of
crap jobs" state.

[Calandale]

obviously, you can't know the way in which the USA is shoved down the throats of people who don't live there, day in, day out, as some sort of utopia. 

Oh, you have to be kidding.
The reactions that I get from just
about every foreign person is that this
place isn't as HORRIBLE as they were led
to believe.

[Calandale]

You should remove your hat and offer a humble thank you, since German is not your country's first language.

Japanese would have been the more likely option.

[Calandale]

John Howard and Tony Blair are no better than Bush IMO since they support him. People in other countries love to complain about what the USA is doing, but their own prime ministers don't help anything.

Not all countries though.
Some, like France, Russia, and Germany
make certain that they get concessions
for even the slightest bit of support. Others,
like Venezuela, stand in opposition.

[QuirkyCarla]

I do believe that your government wants to sell the idea of a super power to the people, which relates back to my comment of 'brainwashing'....probably not the best word....but anyway, a flashy salesman.  Yes, a lot of governments are like that.  Ours is more like the uptight parent who says, 'it's for your own good, you just don't know it yet'.

And why do you believe that exactly? Have you lived here? In reality, there's no reason for them to want to "sell" us that idea. If America does have the resources by which it would be considered a superpower (whatever that means), it doesn't do any good for them to go touting that around to win elections; in actuality the opposite has been true lately, that Bush has been manipulating us through fear and vulnerability. If people percieve that we consider ourselves a superpower, that's them extrapolating.

I'm American and I've never seen the government try to sell us with the whole superpower thing...then again, I don't live in a conservative state. I've seen Bush on TV saying that it's important for us to finish the war in Iraq, etc. but not with any (or at least not any good or believeable) reasons why.

[Calandale]

I've seen Bush on TV saying that it's important for us to finish the war in Iraq, etc. but not with any (or at least not any good or believeable) reasons why.

Prestige is an important reason.
But, NOT going in would have done
a hell of a lot less harm, than success
even would, at this point.