a candid discussion on suicide

[vodz]

Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?

What do you mean by indirectly?

I would die to save my husband or daughter, but if I killed myself because I was depressed or for some other reason of that type, then who would take care of my daughter?  What would happen to her, growing up without a mother?

By indirectly, I mean not like taking the bullet aimed at another, but allowing your life to be taken so that, through a chain of events and a period of time, probably in another location, another's is spared.

Seen Donnie Darko?

[Callaway]

Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?

What do you mean by indirectly?

I would die to save my husband or daughter, but if I killed myself because I was depressed or for some other reason of that type, then who would take care of my daughter?  What would happen to her, growing up without a mother?

By indirectly, I mean not like taking the bullet aimed at another, but allowing your life to be taken so that, through a chain of events and a period of time, probably in another location, another's is spared.

Seen Donnie Darko?

No, I never did.

Do you mean like donating a kidney to a relative and later having kidney failure with your remaining kidney?

[vodz]

Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?

What do you mean by indirectly?

I would die to save my husband or daughter, but if I killed myself because I was depressed or for some other reason of that type, then who would take care of my daughter?  What would happen to her, growing up without a mother?

By indirectly, I mean not like taking the bullet aimed at another, but allowing your life to be taken so that, through a chain of events and a period of time, probably in another location, another's is spared.

Seen Donnie Darko?

No, I never did.

Do you mean like donating a kidney to a relative and later having kidney failure with your remaining kidney?

More on the lines of donating your heart for another person, when there is no indication that you would otherwise die in the foreseeable future.

[Eclair]

Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?

What do you mean by indirectly?

I would die to save my husband or daughter, but if I killed myself because I was depressed or for some other reason of that type, then who would take care of my daughter?  What would happen to her, growing up without a mother?

By indirectly, I mean not like taking the bullet aimed at another, but allowing your life to be taken so that, through a chain of events and a period of time, probably in another location, another's is spared.

Seen Donnie Darko?

No, I never did.

Do you mean like donating a kidney to a relative and later having kidney failure with your remaining kidney?

More on the lines of donating your heart for another person, when there is no indication that you would otherwise die in the foreseeable future.

Has that ever happened? 

[Callaway]

I saw a movie called John Q with Denzel Washington where he planned to do that for his son who needed a heart, but he did not have to in the end.  He knew he was an appropriate tissue type match for his son, so he planned to kill himself so the heart transplant surgeon could use his heart for his son.

Here is a blurb for it:

There is probably no stronger love than that felt between a parent and a small child. In John Q, this is explored through a father's desperate attempt to get a heart transplant for his dying son. When he and his wife discover that their insurance will not cover such a costly procedure he grows more and more frustrated until finally he does the only thing he has left to do. He takes over the emergency room, holding several patients, interns and a doctor hostage, demanding that his son is placed on the heart donor list.

That is what my daughter's medical bills were, $250,000.  Thank goodness we had health insurance that covered her, even though it was a HMO which kept sending her home from the hospital to die.

[Eclair]

I saw a movie called John Q with Denzel Washington where he planned to do that for his son who needed a heart, but he did not have to in the end.  He knew he was an appropriate tissue type match for his son, so he planned to kill himself so the heart transplant surgeon could use his heart for his son.

Here is a blurb for it:

There is probably no stronger love than that felt between a parent and a small child. In John Q, this is explored through a father's desperate attempt to get a heart transplant for his dying son. When he and his wife discover that their insurance will not cover such a costly procedure he grows more and more frustrated until finally he does the only thing he has left to do. He takes over the emergency room, holding several patients, interns and a doctor hostage, demanding that his son is placed on the heart donor list.

That is what my daughter's medical bills were, $250,000.  Thank goodness we had health insurance that covered her, even though it was a HMO which kept sending her home from the hospital to die.

Does she still have those problems?

[vodz]

Has that ever happened? 

It's hypothetical, silly-billy!

I saw a movie called John Q with Denzel Washington where he planned to do that for his son who needed a heart, but he did not have to in the end.  He knew he was an appropriate tissue type match for his son, so he planned to kill himself so the heart transplant surgeon could use his heart for his son.

Here is a blurb for it:

There is probably no stronger love than that felt between a parent and a small child. In John Q, this is explored through a father's desperate attempt to get a heart transplant for his dying son. When he and his wife discover that their insurance will not cover such a costly procedure he grows more and more frustrated until finally he does the only thing he has left to do. He takes over the emergency room, holding several patients, interns and a doctor hostage, demanding that his son is placed on the heart donor list.

That is what my daughter's medical bills were, $250,000.  Thank goodness we had health insurance that covered her, even though it was a HMO which kept sending her home from the hospital to die.

A similar situation would be shooting yourself in the head in a location that would keep you "alive" (the frontal lobe?) so that your organs could be used for transplant.

I saw a movie called Bloodwork with Clint Eastwood, in which a serial killer murdered people in such a way to preserve their bodies so that the detective hunting him (ol' Clint) could receive their heart (he needed a new one).

Anyway, what I'm trying to say/ask; is it ok to value someone else's life above your own? You may still value your life, but sacrifice it for one of more perceived value.

[Calandale]

I'm all for it.
But, for me, it
would have to be
in a moment of
absolute perfection -
and NOT out of
despair. Everyone
should have the right
to opt out, but perhaps
only after discussing it
with their loved ones.

[Nomaken]

In my opinion forcing a person to live when it isnt THEIR mind and body at risk is INCREDIBLY selfish.  I can understand people worrying that a suicidal person is placing his bets unreasonably(about the chances of shit getting better) or thinking they are percieving the world in an unreasonably dark light, but regardless of what is wrong with their reasoning, it is the suicidal who will carry the burden of pain and despair if the white knight trying to convince them that the world is all sunshine and lolllipops is wrong.

Everybody has a sense of self preservation.  Threat of pain, non-existance, hell, and the old question "what if?" all provide ample incentive to a person to not commit suicide.  If suicide was easy, then the moment a person decided that chances were shit were gonna suck for far too long to make living worth it, they'd commit suicide without a second thought.  There would be no moping, whining, cries for help, or talking with people about suicide, just boom, one thursday, dead.

Commiting suicide isn't easy.  People who think that those commiting suicide are cowardly, weak, or quitters are applying THEIR perception of the world to a person who they know nothing about the inside of his head.  That is short sighted, arrogant, and incompassionate.  If someone does commit suicide, it takes every ounce of will they have left in the tattered disillusioned thing that is their soul. 

[Calandale]

Yeah, it sure the hell isn't easy.
I don't know what makes people
think that it is. It often seems
the rational choice, given circumstances.

BUT, making others suffer is wrong too.
One should at least have some consideration.

[Oil Investor]

Suicide is a right and I support it and denouce it with equal measure. It's just one of those things you can do nothing about. Government nor industry should waste any funds on paying any attention to it whatsoever. Let it be.

[Pyraxis]

I find it arrogant and presumptious to say that a person is selfish for wanting to end their pain. Yes I have dealt with suicidal people close to me, and I don't buy the argument "the pain of watching somebody close to you die is far worse than the pain the suicidal person is feeling". Unless you've just had someone you love commit suicide and are considering killing yourself too because you can't stand to live without them, who are you to call it selfish? (and heck, what's wrong with selfish anyway?)

Besides, I believe strongly that no degree of obligation to others trumps one's right to control whether one lives or dies.

[jman]

For those of you who are saying suicide is selfish and cowardly,  have any of you ever severe depression? I have, and the pain is indescribable both emotionally and physically. Can you imagine being so worn down that you are unable to get out of bed, barely move, and barely eat? Have any of you been too hopeless to hope? Well I have, and if it wasn't for the fact I had just enough will power to get myself to a hospital, I probably wouldn't be here writing this today. If someone you loved was suffering and dieing of cancer or another severe terminal illness and they said they wanted to kill themselves, would you let them do it? Wouldn't be more humane to just let them die? That is what it's like in a severe depression, I was lucky enough that I had enough energy left to get myself to the hospital, Not everyone is so lucky or if you're in America you may not even have the option.

[The_P]

Yes, I have felt suicidal and depressed. And yes, I know full well how selfish I was being when my family, especially my mother, were constantly worried about me.

I can see Gnome's and Py's side of things, but it's a different ball game when you are surrounded by people who care about you.

[McGiver]

For those of you who are saying suicide is selfish and cowardly,  have any of you ever severe depression? I have, and the pain is indescribable both emotionally and physically. Can you imagine being so worn down that you are unable to get out of bed, barely move, and barely eat? Have any of you been too hopeless to hope? Well I have, and if it wasn't for the fact I had just enough will power to get myself to a hospital, I probably wouldn't be here writing this today. If someone you loved was suffering and dieing of cancer or another severe terminal illness and they said they wanted to kill themselves, would you let them do it? Wouldn't be more humane to just let them die? That is what it's like in a severe depression, I was lucky enough that I had enough energy left to get myself to the hospital, Not everyone is so lucky or if you're in America you may not even have the option.

you are just feeling sorry for yourself.