a candid discussion on suicide

[jman]

 A lot of people consider suicide to be a cowardly act, but is it really? A lot of people fear death because it is a state that the mind cannot comprehend. Making a permanent decision like this despite the persons' darkest despair is actually quite brave. A lot of people consider suicide to be selfish, but is it really more selfish to let the person live in pain just because you can't emotionally deal with the fact that the person is gone. The fact is, it is the person's life and body and they have every right to do with it as they please, including ending it. I don't understand why people feel the need to intervene when someone wants to die.  If one can't cope with life, then IMHO maybe it would be better if they are dead. It's not fair to a person to have to continue to live a miserable life just so a few people can pat themselves on the back.


I also believe human beings should have a right to euthanasia. We'll happily put down a pet who is suffering, but not humans? Wouldn't it be more humane to let a cancer patient who is in excruciating pain and agony die peacefully?

Now in some cases suicide is a cowardly act. Take Budd Dwyer a Pennsylvania politician who offed himself during a televised press conference after being charged with receiving kickbacks and was facing 55 years in prison. Killing yourself in front of other people is not fair to the people around you, humans do not handle violent trauma especially the way he did it as you can see in this interesting yet extremely graphic and disturbing video:

Warning this is an extremely graphic video
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/SUICIDE/dwyer.mpg

The reason I posted that video is to show the dramatic effects a live suicide has on people. Yes you have the right to die, but you can atleast have the common courtesy to isolate yourself. The fact that you commited suicide is painful enough for the people around you, why would you do the act in front of others, especially in such a violent fashon as Budd did.

Then their are people who commit suicide to make a political statement such as the self-immolation of Malachi Ritscher, he did this on the kennedy expressway in Chicago back in 2006 to protest the Iraq war. While I find doing this to be a bit extreme, it does send a powerful message as seen by the site:

http://www.iheardyoumalachi.org/

Ending your own life over something that matters to you is a good way to drive your point across as you can see by the site posted above.

Well those are my views on suicide. Although dealing with the suicide of someone you know is painful, I think people should show more respect and compassion for the person's decision as he was only doing what he felt was right in the moment. After all we are all human. What do you guys think?

[Eclair]

Have you lost anyone to suicide?

[jman]

I am not sure what you are implying but the answer is no. The point of posting this was to try to get people to see it from the suicidal person's point of view. I would most certainly be devasted of someone I knew decided to off themself, however I also realize from my own experience that it they had their own reasons to do it, whether or not people think they are raitonal is irrelevant because it was for their reasons and their reasons alone.

life can be totally unfair and painful, however it can be comforting to learn to come to terms and accept things as they have happened, as hard as that  might be.

[McGiver]

it is an easy solution/way out for a quitter.

[Eclair]

I am not sure what you are implying but the answer is no. The point of posting this was to try to get people to see it from the suicidal person's point of view. I would most certainly be devasted of someone I knew decided to off themself, however I also realize from my own experience that it they had their own reasons to do it, whether or not people think they are raitonal is irrelevant because it was for their reasons and their reasons alone.

life can be totally unfair and painful, however it can be comforting to learn to come to terms and accept things as they have happened, as hard as that  might be.

I'm trying to understand if you have been exposed to it directly.  I've counselled people who were suicidal and once they were well,  I doubt any of them looked back and wished they had succeeded.  I also lost a friend when I was 16 to suicide and two family members, all of whom I think would deeply regret the moment they took their lives, missing out on seeing their beautiful children and now grandchildren.  Every family gathering is missing those people, the ones who made us laugh so much.  Suicide is a tragic loss...even more so because the person at the time is in a delusional state.
Euthanasia is a completely different topic.

[jman]

it is an easy solution/way out for a quitter.

Yes but I remember in one thread you made a reference to "sink or swim" when it comes to life, and the fact that person has offed himself shows that the person has sunk. Even though many times the obstacles are only perceived to be insurmoutable and the pain never ending, the person has still sunk because they are now dead. Despite the fact the person didn;t realize the options that were layed out in front of him, in the end the person is still dead and their is not much he (obviosily) or anyone else can do about it.

[jman]

I am not sure what you are implying but the answer is no. The point of posting this was to try to get people to see it from the suicidal person's point of view. I would most certainly be devasted of someone I knew decided to off themself, however I also realize from my own experience that it they had their own reasons to do it, whether or not people think they are raitonal is irrelevant because it was for their reasons and their reasons alone.

life can be totally unfair and painful, however it can be comforting to learn to come to terms and accept things as they have happened, as hard as that  might be.

I'm trying to understand if you have been exposed to it directly.  I've counselled people who were suicidal and once they were well,  I doubt any of them looked back and wished they had succeeded.  I also lost a friend when I was 16 to suicide and two family members, all of whom I think would deeply regret the moment they took their lives, missing out on seeing their beautiful children and now grandchildren.  Every family gathering is missing those people, the ones who made us laugh so much.  Suicide is a tragic loss...even more so because the person at the time is in a delusional state.
Euthanasia is a completely different topic.

actually I take back what I originally about not knowing someone that commited suicide. When I was a senior in High School their was a sophmore, he was real popular and on the football team, and yet he still hung himself on the front porch.

[McGiver]

it is an easy solution/way out for a quitter.

Yes but I remember in one thread you made a reference to "sink or swim" when it comes to life, and the fact that person has offed himself shows that the person has sunk. Even though many times the obstacles are only perceived to be insurmoutable and the pain never ending, the person has still sunk because they are now dead. Despite the fact the person didn;t realize the options that were layed out in front of him, in the end the person is still dead and their is not much he (obviosily) or anyone else can do about it.

the intended spirit, at leat the one i was making was that you should always fight, neve give up.

why?

because you never know.

[jman]

because you never know.

lol true mayve that should be my trademark.

[Eclair]

I am not sure what you are implying but the answer is no. The point of posting this was to try to get people to see it from the suicidal person's point of view. I would most certainly be devasted of someone I knew decided to off themself, however I also realize from my own experience that it they had their own reasons to do it, whether or not people think they are raitonal is irrelevant because it was for their reasons and their reasons alone.

life can be totally unfair and painful, however it can be comforting to learn to come to terms and accept things as they have happened, as hard as that  might be.

I'm trying to understand if you have been exposed to it directly.  I've counselled people who were suicidal and once they were well,  I doubt any of them looked back and wished they had succeeded.  I also lost a friend when I was 16 to suicide and two family members, all of whom I think would deeply regret the moment they took their lives, missing out on seeing their beautiful children and now grandchildren.  Every family gathering is missing those people, the ones who made us laugh so much.  Suicide is a tragic loss...even more so because the person at the time is in a delusional state.
Euthanasia is a completely different topic.

actually I take back what I originally about not knowing someone that commited suicide. When I was a senior in High School their was a sophmore, he was real popular and on the football team, and yet he still hung himself on the front porch.

Yes, but was he your friend?  Not that suicide does not impact on the school etc...it's just in your post you said people should just console themselves with the fact that the person did what they wanted to do.  Not much comfort for someone's children or parents in reality unfortunately.

[willow]

A lot of people consider suicide to be a cowardly act, but is it really? A lot of people fear death because it is a state that the mind cannot comprehend. Making a permanent decision like this despite the persons' darkest despair is actually quite brave. A lot of people consider suicide to be selfish, but is it really more selfish to let the person live in pain just because you can't emotionally deal with the fact that the person is gone. The fact is, it is the person's life and body and they have every right to do with it as they please, including ending it. I don't understand why people feel the need to intervene when someone wants to die.  If one can't cope with life, then IMHO maybe it would be better if they are dead. It's not fair to a person to have to continue to live a miserable life just so a few people can pat themselves on the back.


I also believe human beings should have a right to euthanasia. We'll happily put down a pet who is suffering, but not humans? Wouldn't it be more humane to let a cancer patient who is in excruciating pain and agony die peacefully?

Now in some cases suicide is a cowardly act. Take Budd Dwyer a Pennsylvania politician who offed himself during a televised press conference after being charged with receiving kickbacks and was facing 55 years in prison. Killing yourself in front of other people is not fair to the people around you, humans do not handle violent trauma especially the way he did it as you can see in this interesting yet extremely graphic and disturbing video:

Warning this is an extremely graphic video
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/SUICIDE/dwyer.mpg

The reason I posted that video is to show the dramatic effects a live suicide has on people. Yes you have the right to die, but you can atleast have the common courtesy to isolate yourself. The fact that you commited suicide is painful enough for the people around you, why would you do the act in front of others, especially in such a violent fashon as Budd did.

Then their are people who commit suicide to make a political statement such as the self-immolation of Malachi Ritscher, he did this on the kennedy expressway in Chicago back in 2006 to protest the Iraq war. While I find doing this to be a bit extreme, it does send a powerful message as seen by the site:

http://www.iheardyoumalachi.org/

Ending your own life over something that matters to you is a good way to drive your point across as you can see by the site posted above.

Well those are my views on suicide. Although dealing with the suicide of someone you know is painful, I think people should show more respect and compassion for the person's decision as he was only doing what he felt was right in the moment. After all we are all human. What do you guys think?

I confess I skimmed....


but is suicide selfish? yes.

it is selfish, because some loved person has to come home, and find brains stuck to the windows.
it is selfish, because children will spend their lives wondering what THEY did wrong.
it is selfish, because it removes all responsibility from the dead person, and tosses it into the lap of their loved ones.

[Callaway]

A lot of people consider suicide to be a cowardly act, but is it really? A lot of people fear death because it is a state that the mind cannot comprehend. Making a permanent decision like this despite the persons' darkest despair is actually quite brave. A lot of people consider suicide to be selfish, but is it really more selfish to let the person live in pain just because you can't emotionally deal with the fact that the person is gone. The fact is, it is the person's life and body and they have every right to do with it as they please, including ending it. I don't understand why people feel the need to intervene when someone wants to die.  If one can't cope with life, then IMHO maybe it would be better if they are dead. It's not fair to a person to have to continue to live a miserable life just so a few people can pat themselves on the back.


I also believe human beings should have a right to euthanasia. We'll happily put down a pet who is suffering, but not humans? Wouldn't it be more humane to let a cancer patient who is in excruciating pain and agony die peacefully?

Now in some cases suicide is a cowardly act. Take Budd Dwyer a Pennsylvania politician who offed himself during a televised press conference after being charged with receiving kickbacks and was facing 55 years in prison. Killing yourself in front of other people is not fair to the people around you, humans do not handle violent trauma especially the way he did it as you can see in this interesting yet extremely graphic and disturbing video:

Warning this is an extremely graphic video
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/SUICIDE/dwyer.mpg

The reason I posted that video is to show the dramatic effects a live suicide has on people. Yes you have the right to die, but you can atleast have the common courtesy to isolate yourself. The fact that you commited suicide is painful enough for the people around you, why would you do the act in front of others, especially in such a violent fashon as Budd did.

Then their are people who commit suicide to make a political statement such as the self-immolation of Malachi Ritscher, he did this on the kennedy expressway in Chicago back in 2006 to protest the Iraq war. While I find doing this to be a bit extreme, it does send a powerful message as seen by the site:

http://www.iheardyoumalachi.org/

Ending your own life over something that matters to you is a good way to drive your point across as you can see by the site posted above.

Well those are my views on suicide. Although dealing with the suicide of someone you know is painful, I think people should show more respect and compassion for the person's decision as he was only doing what he felt was right in the moment. After all we are all human. What do you guys think?

I confess I skimmed....


but is suicide selfish? yes.

it is selfish, because some loved person has to come home, and find brains stuck to the windows.
it is selfish, because children will spend their lives wondering what THEY did wrong.
it is selfish, because it removes all responsibility from the dead person, and tosses it into the lap of their loved ones.

 

 

I had a good friend whose father killed himself when my friend was just four years old.

I think that there is often a lot of anger on the part of the suicidal person directed toward the family members who have to find his/her body. 

I don't think it is a good thing for a four year old boy to see his father with the top of his head blown off.

[vodz]

Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?

[willow]

Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?

that is completely different, isn't it?

if there was someone with a gun at my kids, I would launch myself in front of them to save them if I could.

that isn't selfish.


offing yourself...because you "can't take it" or feel "like you are drowning" or are "full of despair"...
that is all self centered bullshit.

[Callaway]

Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?

What do you mean by indirectly?

I would die to save my husband or daughter, but if I killed myself because I was depressed or for some other reason of that type, then who would take care of my daughter?  What would happen to her, growing up without a mother?