Truth=relative?

[El]

Truth is all relative anyway.

I'd like to argue this but I need more info.  First, give your definition of "truth" and your definition of "relative" because I have to know what definitions you're working with, and then please let me know in what you base your belief that truth is relative.

[Calandale]

You're hurting me.

I'm not going to define these words, as that is simply
a sucker's bet. Rather, I will give the foundation, which
is that all we really can know is our perceptions (and
yes, these too must remain undefined to one who
will argue that there is no proof of his own existence).

Now, while there may or may not be some underlying
reality, speculating about such a thing is purely pointless,
and can merely be seen as a model for explaining these
perceptions. Making the assumption (on top of one's own
existence) that others have SOME existence as well (ah,
a tremendous jump here - with NO foundation), and that
their perceptions have some reality as well, yet differ from
one's own, the point is clear.

Still, the assumptions upon which the argument lies seem
obscene - so perhaps it would be better to say simply,
"I am the objective truth." Seems more honest, at least.

[Litigious]

I agree with the bird. 

[Calandale]

The bird is the word.

[El]

OK; is your definition of "truth" something that changes with our perception of it (which seems insane, unless you call it "personal truth," and there's a reason for the word before it), or are you saying that objective truth actually changes because of how we perceive it?  Or are you saying there is objective truth but it's inaccessible, so it's meaningless to talk about?

[Litigious]

I would say one of the latter two.

[McGiver]

tough morning for calandale, all around.

[Scrapheap]

Truth is provisional in nature. That is to say that we assign a degree of likelyhood that something is truth based upon the number of facts that support it.

[Calandale]

OK; is your definition of "truth" something that changes with our perception of it (which seems insane, unless you call it "personal truth," and there's a reason for the word before it), or are you saying that objective truth actually changes because of how we perceive it?  Or are you saying there is objective truth but it's inaccessible, so it's meaningless to talk about?

I would say one of the latter two.

The problem being WHICH one. From our point of view, it's impossible
to tell.

You are leaving out one other possible option, which is that there
is NO objective truth. Saying something is meaningless to speak
about is how many atheists define away God, after all. Seems that
the same argument holds just as strongly for truth.

[Calandale]

tough morning for calandale, all around.

But, it was quite fun.

[McGiver]

tough morning for calandale, all around.

But, it was quite fun.

i kinda get a rush when i have been backed into a corner.

[Calandale]

Honestly, I didn't feel particularly pressured,
except by the first question, as I realized that
I had spewed forth something which was not
completely in alignment with my views.

That, and it was 7 in the morning, and I was
getting quite tired.

[McGiver]

the back peddling begins.

[Calandale]

the back peddling begins.

No. I think I'm happy with what I said.
I'll have to wait, and see if it falls apart
under scrutiny, but I think that I covered
the issue.

[Nomaken]

There is a term called objective truth, which is always true whether or not we are aware of it.  And there is a term called subjective truth, which is what we believe and think is truth.  For those of you out there who believe that there is no truth but what we perceive, philosophers would call that subjective truth.  For those of you who believe that there is a truth, and anyone who deviates from it is simply wrong, you would believe in the existence of objective truth.  Although your belief in the existence of objective truth, would be a subjective belief.  And people who believe in god may dispute this (mostly in my opinion because they're afraid when you start to apply concrete definitions to things there is a chance you can make them look like an idiot), but phrases like, "The lord works in mysterious ways." Shows that they believe objective truth exists, they are aware they may not know it.