Unemployed bums

[Calandale]

Right, but where, might I ask, do you get the
money other than the 91% of rent from?

[methinks]

I think it's easier for some people to loathe the poor than it is to comprehend extreme wealth.The welfare "bum" is visible and an easy focus for derision,and may even be too close to our own economic position for comfort(ie,the palpable fear that,with a couple of wrong choices and/or a little bad luck,"my god,that 'bum' could be me!"),whereas how many of us really know anything about the very wealthy(other than what we attempt to assess through popular media)?

Also,the central mythology in the middle-classes of western cultures is that we all coexist on a fundamentally even plane of daily activity as "citizens",and that anyone who "chooses" to not participate is dead weight.That attitude allows them to believe they are "playing the game" of success and implies a chance to oneday become one of the power elite.That mythology is the proverbial carrot-on-the-stick,and it is essential to keep the materialist-capitalist world functioning.If you question or challenge the status-quo,you are a stinking dissenter(aka "spoil sport").

Every single one of us is severly biased by our own particular feedback loop of: unique nervous system(no two are alike)+experience with consensual reality(the realm of material phenomena).If we are "lucky",we fall somewhere within the realm of "acceptably neutral" and carry on each day business as ususal.The poor,unemployed,addicts,and mentally-ill are simply visible symptoms of a reality that is not democratic or fair.

Some people abuse goodwill and generosity,no doubt about it.But it is ludicrous to believe that life is ever fair,and sometimes that unfairness prohibits equal participation.That has to be strikingly obvious to anyone whose life is affected by ASD.

[Litigious]

Right, but where, might I ask, do you get the
money other than the 91% of rent from?

I get disability payment from the state too. I pay about 20% local tax on it, though. 

[Calandale]

As I said, one of the few things I like about my country is that people who really are disabled can get money to survive here, though it's not that easy to get it as many think and it's certainly not much. I have less than $10000/year after tax in my current situation. Any aspies with a job who envy me?

I get disability payment from the state too. I pay about 20% local tax on it, though. 

I thought that's what we were talking about. I'm confused. What's the 10,000 for?

[Calandale]

I think it's easier for some people to loathe the poor than it is to comprehend extreme wealth.The welfare "bum" is visible and an easy focus for derision,and may even be too close to our own economic position for comfort(ie,the palpable fear that,with a couple of wrong choices and/or a little bad luck,"my god,that 'bum' could be me!"),whereas how many of us really know anything about the very wealthy(other than what we attempt to assess through popular media)?

Maybe, but it doesn't even have to be VERY wealthy. When my dad dies, I'll probably
inherit enough to live off of for the rest of my life, if I'm careful. I don't see where it
is particularly fair that I should get this, in addition to having had the opportunities for
decent learning, when other's do not. There are unfairnesses the other way too.
It's just the way of things. Certainly, if someone wants to help some friends out,
by giving them a place to live, it seems odd to blame any of the participants involved.
I think fatty just doesn't like the PARTICULAR bums (for whatever reason) and is
thereby launching an attack on all  of us.

Also,the central mythology in the middle-classes of western cultures is that we all coexist on a fundamentally even plane of daily activity as "citizens",and that anyone who "chooses" to not participate is dead weight.That attitude allows them to believe they are "playing the game" of success and implies a chance to oneday become one of the power elite.That mythology is the proverbial carrot-on-the-stick,and it is essential to keep the materialist-capitalist world functioning.If you question or challenge the status-quo,you are a stinking dissenter(aka "spoil sport").

Yeah. But what's worse, is that these same fucking moralizers who complain about deadweight are often among
the first to oppose someone's right to off themselves, if they can't see any productive end to their life.

Some people abuse goodwill and generosity,no doubt about it.But it is ludicrous to believe that life is ever fair,and sometimes that unfairness prohibits equal participation.That has to be strikingly obvious to anyone whose life is affected by ASD.

I don't see it as abuse. It is simply a matter of making personal choices.
The same arguments that the anti-suicide people make can be made
towards funding anyone who doesn't want to work: you never know
what good they can achieve. I've known people on welfare, who
volunteer for charities; and as I've said before, I would never have
had the time to work on my book, had I been working a 'regular' job
(not that it's going anywhere - we're trying to peddle it again - the contract
was dropped).

[Litigious]

As I said, one of the few things I like about my country is that people who really are disabled can get money to survive here, though it's not that easy to get it as many think and it's certainly not much. I have less than $10000/year after tax in my current situation. Any aspies with a job who envy me?

I get disability payment from the state too. I pay about 20% local tax on it, though. 

I thought that's what we were talking about. I'm confused. What's the 10,000 for?

You asked where I get the money from, except my rent. I get disability payment, about $12000/year, and pay more than $2000 in local tax. That's it. The disability payment is for my AS.

[RobertN]

This doesn't apply to everybody that has contributed here, but for God's sake people, get some compassion - surely its not that difficult?

"methinks" makes some very interesting points about it being easy to despise the poor/weak in society. After all, they are an easy target. All one would have to do is to remove their benefit check, and within a few days they would starve. This is the reality for most people on benefits and I don't think many people would choose to be in that situation if they could avoid it. Many people who appear to be "having a free ride" are mentally ill and can't really make rational decisions regarding their lives, let alone hold down a full time job.

When a society is in difficulty, it always attacks its weakest elements first. All extremist regimes have done this in the past. As well as being morally and ethically wrong, it is also impractical, since the so-called "scroungers" are not really such a big drain on the economy as many other things. In fact it could be argued that if the UK didn't have to fork out billions on Incapacity Benefit, the NHS, Social Services, etc, then it would have had far more money to spend killing innocent people in Iraq! So in that sense, the UK "scroungers" have done the 3rd world a lot of good indirectly. Hey, if we had double the number of benefit-dependents in the UK, perhaps Blair would not have had any money to go to war - now that would have saved an awful lot of deaths and current problems the UK is facing. Strange way of looking at things, I know, but an interesting new perspective on the situtation...

Yes, people attack the poor/weak because they are visible. The real challenge is to look beyond the visible, and research deeper into the woes of your country. If one does that, they will uncover a few uncomfortable truths: it is in fact the elite and even the middle-classes that cause the problems. They drain all the resources and then legitimise it under the umbrella of "capitalism". Its incredible that the elite can earn billions by speculating on the stock market - an activity that doesn't actually produce anything for the country, only milks off the capitalist system. They would do less damage to the world by sitting at home watching daytime TV!

[Calandale]

As I said, one of the few things I like about my country is that people who really are disabled can get money to survive here, though it's not that easy to get it as many think and it's certainly not much. I have less than $10000/year after tax in my current situation. Any aspies with a job who envy me?

I get disability payment from the state too. I pay about 20% local tax on it, though. 

I thought that's what we were talking about. I'm confused. What's the 10,000 for?

You asked where I get the money from, except my rent. I get disability payment, about $12000/year, and pay more than $2000 in local tax. That's it. The disability payment is for my AS.

Ok, so I guess I don't know where you're getting your rent from then. Are you netting some 20k or 10K from
the state? I wouldn't complain one bit, if the former. My wife and I were living off of less than that, for most of
our time together.

Yay, Robert.

[RobertN]

As a side note, many great inventions and discoveries over the centuries have been made by "lazy" people. Mendel, who founded the science of genetics was accused of being lazy because he didn't want to spent his days as a farm labourer. As a result, he joined a monastary where he had time to advance his theories. Einstein was accused of being "stupid" at school. As an adult, he regularly bunked off college and chose the easiest possible jobs when he graduated. As a result, he had time to do private research into his theories. If people never had the time to think about things and create things, humans would still be living in caves. Capitalism very often stiffles creativity, despite right-wing claims to the contrary. Excessive work can numb the mind and close it to new ideas...

[Calandale]

This is much of what I'm thinking.

[Mr Smith]

i wouldnt worry about it peaguy. what good is complaining about someone elses problems on the internet? how does that help them?

I'm not overly worried, but I don't like it when people over-generalise the unemployed. And anyway, this is a topic about putting down the unemployed, so I'm merely taking part in it.

Get over yourself, Hale_Bopp.

Read the whole thread before sticking a carrot up your arse, you fucking dumbarse.

[Litigious]

As I said, one of the few things I like about my country is that people who really are disabled can get money to survive here, though it's not that easy to get it as many think and it's certainly not much. I have less than $10000/year after tax in my current situation. Any aspies with a job who envy me?

I get disability payment from the state too. I pay about 20% local tax on it, though. 

I thought that's what we were talking about. I'm confused. What's the 10,000 for?

You asked where I get the money from, except my rent. I get disability payment, about $12000/year, and pay more than $2000 in local tax. That's it. The disability payment is for my AS.

Ok, so I guess I don't know where you're getting your rent from then. Are you netting some 20k or 10K from
the state? I wouldn't complain one bit, if the former. My wife and I were living off of less than that, for most of
our time together.

I get 91% of my rent paid in addition to the disability payment. I'm netting about $13500, rent included, when local tax is paid. I get 91% of my rent paid by the state because I live on disability payment. I couldn't get 91% of the rent paid if I had a job.

[Calandale]

But you'd still get the disability?
Even if you were holding a VERY
good job?

[Litigious]

But you'd still get the disability?
Even if you were holding a VERY
good job?

No, no, I couldn't get disability and a full time job, but I'm actually allowed to study despite being on disability payment.

[methinks]

As a side note, many great inventions and discoveries over the centuries have been made by "lazy" people. Mendel, who founded the science of genetics was accused of being lazy because he didn't want to spent his days as a farm labourer. As a result, he joined a monastary where he had time to advance his theories. Einstein was accused of being "stupid" at school. As an adult, he regularly bunked off college and chose the easiest possible jobs when he graduated. As a result, he had time to do private research into his theories. If people never had the time to think about things and create things, humans would still be living in caves. Capitalism very often stiffles creativity, despite right-wing claims to the contrary. Excessive work can numb the mind and close it to new ideas...

Yes,yes,yes.Work is good,toiling in jobs(especially with low return on your daily personal investment of time/energy)is degrading.