Unemployed bums

[McGiver]

Won't work, unless you tear down the whole modern society. That's the bitter truth.

i believe that if people (the masses) get hungry enough then something will give or change.

the current problem is that people are comfortably numb.  and i blame the states socialistic handouts for this.
i blame common people for competing with each other over jobs that do not afford livable wages or dignity, rather than standing together, united, against the machine.

That problem is enormous, because the masses are always more or less ignorant. Instead of gun licenses and driving licenses, there ought to be voting licenses; ignorant and utterly stupid people shouldn't have the right to vote. They're responsible for those idiots and power-abusers getting into power in the first place.

maybe the individual should have discussions with their neighbours, their co-workers, the guy at the gas pump next to them.
educate each other.
get pissed together.

[Calandale]

So, who chooses which job I'm suited for?
Let's take the me of 10 years ago. I worked
jobs similar to the security one - but don't find
it easy to do numerous things at once. So, while
I was doing these jobs, I was rotting.

i am opposed to anyone making choices for you, but you.

Ah. So what, I get some guaranteed wage, and choose
which job I want? Perhaps I'd like to be a policeman,
because I like to walk around with a gun. Ok, maybe
there are limits. But certainly it seems like either someone
else can tell me that I'm not suited for a job (in which
case I'm not longer the one making the choice) OR
I can do what I please, and make a living wage off it.

In which case, I'd choose something terribly painless,
or something which required training, and then I'd switch
fields when it appeared that I'd ever have to submit to
actual work.

have you ever considered teamwork?

maybe you are talented at one end of this business, where someone else is good at the sales.

common man helping each other up the ladder of success.  too many freelancers out there trying to do everything themselves.

What the hell are you on? You expect someone who
can't seem to convince a convenience store to hire him
that he should try and con someone into partnering with
him? About the only kind of job I could have done then
was something where I was following clearly set out instructions.
These tended to be JUST those low end jobs.

Even now, looking at getting out with a terminal Master's, I don't
see much more opportunity. I knew more before this degree than
I do now, and was unable to find work. But that's me, and I'm a
seriously fucked up case. I just know that most of my friends
(back when I had such critters) were significantly brighter than
the average person - yet the majority had pretty crappy jobs,
which didn't challenge them. Yeah, most were better than me -
they didn't get so sickened by the situation that they gave up,
but it still seems a tremendous misuse of talent. And there were
certainly a couple who seemed about as unlikely as I did of ever
going beyond that point.

My time was important enough to me, that one of the ways that
I found to make money was bending over and being a dummy
for proctological exams. Hey, at least it paid a lot. My psycho ex
took up prostitution, pretty much for the same reason. I just
don't buy that there is any great gain to people, if they are so
willing to do as little as possible to get by.

[Calandale]

the people are not hungry enough, yet.  but they are way more in debt, and hungrier, than they were ten years ago.

People have been a LOT poorer through history, and not caused
such upheavals as you seem to think are going to happen.

[Calandale]

maybe the individual should have discussions with their neighbours, their co-workers, the guy at the gas pump next to them.
educate each other.
get pissed together.

maybe. And maybe everyone should just be NICE
to one another. Fantasy land is nice. But it ain't
this world.

[McGiver]

In which case, I'd choose something terribly painless,
or something which required training, and then I'd switch
fields when it appeared that I'd ever have to submit to
actual work.

then you are lazy.  and quite possibly not hungry enough.  you instinct to survive has not been tested, enough.


but to survive isn't nearly enough.  not for people who see so much wealth all around them and they are living in the red.  and, the kicker is, that they know that they are producing that wealth.
people who are willing, unlike you, calandale, deserve a fair portion of what they produce.
you, seem to be happy with the second class citzenry.  you feel entitled as an individual.
that is where your problem is.  you are short sided and you think only in terms of yourself.
what i am preching is communal egoism.

[Calandale]

In which case, I'd choose something terribly painless,
or something which required training, and then I'd switch
fields when it appeared that I'd ever have to submit to
actual work.

then you are lazy.  and quite possibly not hungry enough.  you instinct to survive has not been tested, enough.


but to survive isn't nearly enough.  not for people who see so much wealth all around them and they are living in the red.  and, the kicker is, that they know that they are producing that wealth.
people who are willing, unlike you, calandale, deserve a fair portion of what they produce.
you, seem to be happy with the second class citzenry.  you feel entitled as an individual.
that is where your problem is.  you are short sided and you think only in terms of yourself.
what i am preching is communal egoism.

So, they only deserve it if they seize it for themselves? Sounds like just what the
capitalists are doing. Plus, as I pointed out, these kinds of movements NEVER
arise from the working class, so don't count on them to be less lazy than I am.
They scratch out their daily bread - and it's not like they're not getting that.
Labor Unions have failed here. They're failing even in socialist states.

[Litigious]

It sounds like anarchism; I have nothing against that, on the contrary, but the masses will never embrace it.

[Calandale]

In which case, I'd choose something terribly painless,
or something which required training, and then I'd switch
fields when it appeared that I'd ever have to submit to
actual work.

then you are lazy.  and quite possibly not hungry enough.  you instinct to survive has not been tested, enough..

This was to some hypothetical situation, which it
is clear to me now you DON'T embrace. You don't
think that the worker should choose his job - but that
the employer should choose the worker - what we currently
have. Something which leads to the entitlement mentality,
in order to stave off the danger of real change.

[McGiver]

It sounds like anarchism; I have nothing against that, on the contrary, but the masses will never embrace it.

due to compliancy which is spawned from laziness.

one can change their lot in life by themselves, but it is usually easier and more beneficial to do so as a tribe.

[Calandale]

Do you have ANY example where the poor made such a change?

Or wasn't it always the privileged, perhaps under the guise of
helping the poor, seizing power their own way?

[McGiver]

In which case, I'd choose something terribly painless,
or something which required training, and then I'd switch
fields when it appeared that I'd ever have to submit to
actual work.

then you are lazy.  and quite possibly not hungry enough.  you instinct to survive has not been tested, enough..

This was to some hypothetical situation, which it
is clear to me now you DON'T embrace. You don't
think that the worker should choose his job - but that
the employer should choose the worker - what we currently
have. Something which leads to the entitlement mentality,
in order to stave off the danger of real change.

you are the one stating that you don't want to do actual work.

you want to talk hypothetical?

imagine if everybody had the same philosophy as you.... you have desires but are unwilling to work for them.
would there be any created wealth in that situation?

[McGiver]

Do you have ANY example where the poor made such a change?

Or wasn't it always the privileged, perhaps under the guise of
helping the poor, seizing power their own way?

you want me to provide an example from history for the workers paradise that i am suggesting?
seems to me that you are grasping here.


even the rich will do what they have to do to hold onto their power.  even if that means giving up a portion of it to those that actually earn it.

[Calandale]

imagine if everybody had the same philosophy as you.... you have desires but are unwilling to work for them.
would there be any created wealth in that situation?

You misrepresent me. I'm willing to work for my desires.
They just aren't too heavily tied to making much money.

But not everyone IS like me. But most are pretty unwilling
to rock the boat - and the poorer that they are, the more
unwilling that they are to do so.

[Calandale]

Do you have ANY example where the poor made such a change?

Or wasn't it always the privileged, perhaps under the guise of
helping the poor, seizing power their own way?

you want me to provide an example from history for the workers paradise that i am suggesting?
seems to me that you are grasping here.


even the rich will do what they have to do to hold onto their power.  even if that means giving up a portion of it to those that actually earn it.

Not grasping at all. What I'm saying is that what you are advocating
appears to be against what human nature allows. Those in power will
indeed bribe the poor - as they always have - with bread and circuses.
And the poor will accept it - as they always have.

[Litigious]

Do you have ANY example where the poor made such a change?

Or wasn't it always the privileged, perhaps under the guise of
helping the poor, seizing power their own way?

you want me to provide an example from history for the workers paradise that i am suggesting?
seems to me that you are grasping here.


even the rich will do what they have to do to hold onto their power.  even if that means giving up a portion of it to those that actually earn it.

Not grasping at all. What I'm saying is that what you are advocating
appears to be against what human nature allows. Those in power will
indeed bribe the poor - as they always have - with bread and circuses.
And the poor will accept it - as they always have.

Totally agree. Alas.