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Author Topic: Dark day for Venezuela  (Read 3477 times)

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Litigious

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2007, 01:45:24 AM »
Lit - Austria didn't want the war, and Italy backed out of it. But, Austria couldn't
accept the affront.

Actually, Austria wanted a war, but not with Russia only with Serbia. They panicked when it became obvious that Russia was going to declare war if they attacked Serbia.

Offline Calandale

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2007, 01:50:45 AM »
Lit - Austria didn't want the war, and Italy backed out of it. But, Austria couldn't
accept the affront.

Actually, Austria wanted a war, but not with Russia only with Serbia. They panicked when it became obvious that Russia was going to declare war if they attacked Serbia.

Well, yeah. But, they didn't REALLY want the war with Serbia either.
They just wanted the whole problem not to have happened. They
were happier before the Balkan revolts. Those countries were just
a threat to them. Russia, on the other hand, was trying to make
themselves into the great protector of slavdom.

The problem with allowing any poplar power into government decisions.

Offline drewtheyellow

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2007, 01:51:28 AM »
Ok. Tell that to our multi-nationals. I'm sure they'd be thrilled
to see an isolationist US.
Sure, why not? The US was mostly isolationist for much of its history. Foreign war doesn't really help our popularity and bad popularity really doesn't seem to help our currency. Not only that but most of our military interventions really don't help our businesses very much. The jingoists are the ones who love our wars, the business class wants stable markets and lower taxes, both of which could be provided better with less war.

Quote
Oh, I'm not saying Britain was particularly to blame. Though had they stayed out of
the wars, they would have prolonged their Empire a bit longer. The Bismark alliances
would have left France without any allies. Alternatively, there was even a possibility of
an anti-English alliance. But, SOME war probably would have occurred to finish off such
a power.
However, they had allied to enter that war and Germany had acted in manners that offended their sensibilities. Really though, you assume that a war must be necessary to hail the end of a power. I assert that no war is necessary and no war is likely.
Quote
As to the second war, it strikes me that it was simply the necessary conclusion. Germany
was too humbled by the first, yet left in a tremendously powerful position. But, all of the
countries were too weakened to really be able to go on fighting. Similar 'truces' have
happened again and again through history. 
Germany was too hurt by the first. Heavy conditions placed upon it the Treaty of Versailles, combined with an economic depression would cause war in just about any nation. Now, it is true that they were bitter about the first war however, that alone did not lead them to a leader willing to go to war.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 01:53:11 AM by drewtheyellow »

Litigious

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2007, 01:55:50 AM »
Lit - Austria didn't want the war, and Italy backed out of it. But, Austria couldn't
accept the affront.

Actually, Austria wanted a war, but not with Russia only with Serbia. They panicked when it became obvious that Russia was going to declare war if they attacked Serbia.

Well, yeah. But, they didn't REALLY want the war with Serbia either.
They just wanted the whole problem not to have happened. They
were happier before the Balkan revolts. Those countries were just
a threat to them. Russia, on the other hand, was trying to make
themselves into the great protector of slavdom.

The problem with allowing any poplar power into government decisions.

Yes, what Austria wanted most was stability and status quo. It's funny that the Tsar and high Russian "panslavists" didn't really have a clue about where people like The Czechs and Slovaks actually lived.

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2007, 02:01:55 AM »
You have some reason for believing this? Just because the Russian
Panslavism wasn't directed at Bohemia, doesn't mean that they
had no clue. There were just issues that Russia was aware they
couldn't easily effect. They went after the low hanging fruit.

Litigious

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2007, 02:08:34 AM »
You have some reason for believing this? Just because the Russian
Panslavism wasn't directed at Bohemia, doesn't mean that they
had no clue. There were just issues that Russia was aware they
couldn't easily effect. They went after the low hanging fruit.

I've read in books how utterly badly informed they actually were about these things. Your president Woodrow Jesus Christ Wilson knew even less about them but still insisted on trying to solve all the European minority problems once and for all. Look at the results.  ::)

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2007, 02:13:10 AM »
I've read in books how utterly badly informed they actually were about these things. Your president Woodrow Jesus Christ Wilson knew even less about them but still insisted on trying to solve all the European minority problems once and for all. Look at the results.  ::)

Shocking. I mean, they were aware of the Poles in both Germany and Austria, no?

I had to look to see if that was really Wilson's middle name  ;D. Thomas Woodrow Wilson - never knew his real name.

But what the hell do you expect from a democratically elected stooge - who only came to power
because the best man in the race couldn't get his party's nomination?

I rank Wilson as one of the worst US presidents (not quite as bad as Lincoln but worse than FDR or Kennedy).

Litigious

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2007, 02:17:57 AM »
Wilson is one of the presidents that for me represent everything that is wrong with America: big-mouth-know-nothing-about-everything mixed with religious drivel about "saving the world".

It's interesting that we have about the same opinions about both Wilson, Lin-Cohen  ;), FDR and Kennedy. Many, or most, Americans would consider at least Lincoln, FDR and Kennedy some kind of heroes. I don't.

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2007, 02:26:23 AM »
The only good thing that I can say about Kennedy, is that he
had decent taste in women.  :laugh:

Much better than Clinton.

So, other than the obvious Jefferson, whom would you
rank well in US Presidents? Or, do you simply have some
that you dislike?

Litigious

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2007, 02:32:45 AM »
The only good thing that I can say about Kennedy, is that he
had decent taste in women.  :laugh:

Much better than Clinton.

So, other than the obvious Jefferson, whom would you
rank well in US Presidents? Or, do you simply have some
that you dislike?

I have very hard to find any good Presidents. Polk, for example, was the President who gained more territory to the US than any other President but seems to have been an uncredibly unsympathetic person. Carter seems to have been colourless but pretty good. I consider many things in your country better than in mine but many of your Presidents have been some bizarre clowns...

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2007, 02:36:33 AM »
Funny, you picked a couple that I would have listed.

I would add Pierce to it, just because he was a drunkard
and didn't do much harm. Coolidge for the same reason,
though he probably managed to help cause the depression;
at least he had a great sense of humor.

ooo...one more for the EVIL list: Jackson. He may actually
be the one that I hate the most, but for purely domestic
reasons.

Litigious

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2007, 02:42:14 AM »
Funny, you picked a couple that I would have listed.

I would add Pierce to it, just because he was a drunkard
and didn't do much harm. Coolidge for the same reason,
though he probably managed to help cause the depression;
at least he had a great sense of humor.

ooo...one more for the EVIL list: Jackson. He may actually
be the one that I hate the most, but for purely domestic
reasons.

That nice Trail of Tear thing?

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2007, 02:50:32 AM »
That and killing the bank for personal reasons.

The fact that he would be on money just disgusts me.

Litigious

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2007, 02:55:16 AM »
That and killing the bank for personal reasons.

The fact that he would be on money just disgusts me.


There was one guy trying to shoot him already in 1835 or 1836, but he failed, oy vey!  :(

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Re: Dark day for Venezuela
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2007, 03:03:01 AM »
I forgot about that.

Had to wiki it. The guy was
apparently just a nutcase though.


I seem to remember that he had been in
a couple of matters of honour though,
when younger. Kind of added to the
taint with which he was seen.