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Author Topic: The criminal parts of the Koran  (Read 8849 times)

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Offline El

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #135 on: June 24, 2007, 07:09:31 AM »
snip

Wow I am impressed, could have not said it better myself. Might I add in, while Christianity and even Hinduism and Buddhism have a future as religions, Islam apart from Sufism does not, it will enter a terminal decline soon enough. Islam is only growing through the natural growth of the present Muslim population, while Christianity is making lots of new converts everyday.

Since I don't know the statistics behind this, I'm curious:  Does the rate of conversion make up for the masses of disillusioned and bitter people who leave the church every day?
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Teejay

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #136 on: June 24, 2007, 07:19:05 AM »


Since I don't know the statistics behind this, I'm curious:  Does the rate of conversion make up for the masses of disillusioned and bitter people who leave the church every day?

That occurs in the western countries, in places like Africa and Asia the number of new converts is simply amazing, it is making the Christian world focused on Africa, Asia and Latin America, rather than North America and especially Europe where it has been in the past.

Offline odeon

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #137 on: June 24, 2007, 04:07:28 PM »
For this reason, have a look at The Quran on Wars And Aggression where some of your concerns are addressed.

I can't see how you would want to quote an obviously biased source on the Koran (Quran).

I prefer the Skeptics Annotaed Quran

The Quran, along with the bible, contradicts itself every other page. Ultimately you could use the quran to justify almost any position. I think it's important that  you look at how Islam is actually being taught.

Why is a Muslim source more biased, Scrap? One would think that practicing Muslims would know a bit more about their religion than a non-Muslim.

As for the rest of your comment, that page is there to teach you about Islam. I'm sure you'd rather see confirmation of your fears, something like The Bin Laden Internet Home or perhaps a suicide bomber's guide to Islam, but as with Christian references out there, I much prefer the peaceful Muslim majority.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Scrapheap

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #138 on: June 24, 2007, 05:24:01 PM »
Why is a Muslim source more biased, Scrap? One would think that practicing Muslims would know a bit more about their religion than a non-Muslim.

Comming from a fundamentalist christian home, I can tell you how IGNORANT most christians are about the bible and where it came from. The problem with a muslim source is twofold. One: of course they're going to try to put their best foot forward to try to sell you their message. Two: Although religious people are well INDOCTRINATED, they often don't understand anything of the historical contest thet their religion was founded in, therefore, they don't know what is metaphor and what was supposed to be literal fact.

Quote
As for the rest of your comment, that page is there to indoctrinate you about Islamby giving you a sanitized, western friendly interpretation.
Fixed.
Quote
I'm sure you'd rather see confirmation of your fears, something like The Bin Laden Internet Home or perhaps a suicide bomber's guide to Islam, but as with Christian references out there, I much prefer the peaceful Muslim majority.

Straw man argument

Teejay

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #139 on: June 25, 2007, 06:13:47 AM »
I've just read an pdf copy  Robert Spencer's - The Politically Incorrect Guide To Islam I downloaded on emule. It throughly recommend the book, it basically agrees with everything Thagomizer has been saying and might I add that groups like Al Qaeda aren't on the fringes of the Muslim world, their ideas of waging war against the disbelievers, until Islam is the sole religion of the world has a long and 'honorable' tradition in Islam.

I believe there cannot be true global peace, until Islam is extinct as a religion. I do not propose killing all Muslims. However I do not believe the religion cannot be reformed, because it was established as a religion of war, where morality which other religions hold sacred can be tossed aside with if it serves the cause of Islam.

I think it would have to take a massive revival in Christianity in the west for it to wake up to this reality. The only people in our society who realize this threat are often 'fundamentalist' Christians often so derided by others.


Offline El

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #140 on: June 25, 2007, 06:36:48 AM »
...and, just like that, The Politically Incorrect Guide To Islam's sales plummetted.
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Offline Leto729

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #141 on: June 25, 2007, 06:54:24 AM »
It takes only a few bad apples to make any religion bad in the end.
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Offline odeon

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #142 on: June 25, 2007, 06:57:16 AM »
Comming from a fundamentalist christian home, I can tell you how IGNORANT most christians are about the bible and where it came from. The problem with a muslimChristian source is twofold. One: of course they're going to try to put their best foot forward to try to sell you their message. Two: Although religious people are well INDOCTRINATED, they often don't understand anything of the historical contest thet their religion was founded in, therefore, they don't know what is metaphor and what was supposed to be literal fact.

Fixed. :P
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline odeon

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #143 on: June 25, 2007, 07:02:49 AM »
I believe there cannot be true global peace, until Islam is extinct as a religion. I do not propose killing all Muslims. However I do not believe the religion cannot be reformed, because it was established as a religion of war, where morality which other religions hold sacred can be tossed aside with if it serves the cause of Islam.

I think it would have to take a massive revival in Christianity in the west for it to wake up to this reality. The only people in our society who realize this threat are often 'fundamentalist' Christians often so derided by others.

There should be no compulsion in religion, Christian or otherwise. What you are advocating are new crusades, TJ, whether you realize it or not. I'm glad you belong to a minority.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Teejay

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #144 on: June 25, 2007, 07:57:50 AM »


There should be no compulsion in religion, Christian or otherwise. What you are advocating are new crusades, TJ, whether you realize it or not. I'm glad you belong to a minority.

I am advocating a new crusade so that western civilization and what we have achieved can continue to exist.

duncvis

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #145 on: June 25, 2007, 08:00:22 AM »
What the world needs is LESS religious sheep attempting to impose their archaic worldview on the rest of us, not more.  :finger:

Offline odeon

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #146 on: June 25, 2007, 08:07:30 AM »


There should be no compulsion in religion, Christian or otherwise. What you are advocating are new crusades, TJ, whether you realize it or not. I'm glad you belong to a minority.

I am advocating a new crusade so that western civilization and what we have achieved can continue to exist.

And how do you plan to handle the Muslims that refuse to denounce their religion, Adolf? Gas chambers?  :finger:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Teejay

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #147 on: June 25, 2007, 08:20:57 AM »
What the world needs is LESS religious sheep attempting to impose their archaic worldview on the rest of us, not more.  :finger:

I am not a religious person, I am a secular humanist who opposed to ideologies which threaten to destroy Liberal Democracy, Free Market Capitalism, Rationalism and Science.

But I am not blind to what Islam stands for and what many Muslims believe in, even if they do not actively fight the disbelievers like Bin Ladin and his ilk do.

Back before the days of cultural relativism great thinkers had the following to say about Islam.


    John Quincy Adams on Islam:

    "In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar [i.e., Muhammad], the Egyptian, [.....] Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST.- TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE.... Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant ... While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men."


    Winston Churchill on Islam:

    How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

    A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

    Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it.

    No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

    -- Sir Winston Spencer Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).

From Montesquieu, about 1748, “Spirit of the Laws”, Book XXIV, Chapter III:

That a moderate Government is most agreeable to the Christian Religion, and a despotic Government to the Mahometan.

THE Christian religion is a stranger to mere despotic power. The mildness so frequently recommended in the gospel, is incompatible with the despotic rage with which a prince punishes his subjects, and exercises himself in cruelty.

From Chapter IV:
It is a misfortune to human nature, when religion is given by a conqueror. The Mahometan religion, which speaks only by the sword, acts still upon men with that destructive spirit with which it was founded.


Alexis De Tocqueville:

Muhammad brought down from heaven and put into the Koran not religious doctrines only, but political maxims, criminal and civil laws, and scientific theories. The Gospels, on the other hand, deal only with the general relations between man and God and between man and man.... That alone... is enough to show that Islam will not be able to hold its power long in ages of enlightenment and democracy, while Christianity is destined to reign in such ages, as in all others.

Teejay

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #148 on: June 25, 2007, 08:31:19 AM »

And how do you plan to handle the Muslims that refuse to denounce their religion, Adolf? Gas chambers?  :finger:

I do not want to kill people,

I want to see Muslims stop believing in believing the sharia must be the law of the land, that the muslim world must wage jihad against the non-Muslims until Islam is the only religion, stop treating women like property that includes putting women under the veil, stop treating non-Muslims like they are inferior, stop doing female 'circumcision;'.

I want to see all Muslims accept western ideals which everybody else accepts like secular law and human rights (like treating women not as property or non-Muslims like they are inferior).

Scrapheap

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Re: The criminal parts of the Koran
« Reply #149 on: June 25, 2007, 09:01:11 AM »
Comming from a fundamentalist christian home, I can tell you how IGNORANT most christians are about the bible and where it came from. The problem with a muslimChristian source is twofold. One: of course they're going to try to put their best foot forward to try to sell you their message. Two: Although religious people are well INDOCTRINATED, they often don't understand anything of the historical contest thet their religion was founded in, therefore, they don't know what is metaphor and what was supposed to be literal fact.

Fixed. :P

What has deluded you into thinkiing I'm putting forth a christian based argument?? I'm agnostic and don't believe in the Judeo/Christian/Islamic god. The link I posted to the Skeptics annotated Quran, also is an Agnostic/Atheist site. (did you look at the Skeptics annotated bible?)