Calandale's turn in the spotlight

[vodz]

what is url 4 aspiekaoss?

[Calandale]

http://aspiechaos.freesmfhosting.com

[Pyraxis]

Actually I think you're just being a jackass, spamming this thread. This is the closest thing Intensity has to an anti-drama haven, and there seems to be a need for it, much as I prefer to stay the hell away myself.

Ah, so I should allow the distortions,
as I see them, to be allowed unhindered
here?

Why not? Does it hurt your cause that badly if there is one thread where you're not talking about it?

If that's the case, I have to wonder whether there's anything more meaningful than shouting behind your words.

As I see it, intense is ALL about drama.
Can't handle the  heat? There's always WP.

As I see it, it's a question of nothing more than organization. If an anti-drama thread didn't work here, then it would just sprout up on another forum with the same people anyway. I was pissed as hell when the Forum for Real Problems got established here, I'm still not convinced it's a good idea, and Dunc's little haven thread is the same kind of concept. I'm still dead set against any official enforcement of either one. But I'm still quite entitled to call you an asshole for shouting people down there. That's my opinion, that it's an empty intimidation tactic, and I don't care if you actually intimidated anyone, but I do care that Dunc left the site, because he was useful.

[Calandale]

Why not? Does it hurt your cause that badly if there is one thread where you're not talking about it?

There are PLENTY. In that thread, the issue came up.
And yes, any squelching of discussion of an issue is THAT
bad.

If that's the case, I have to wonder whether there's anything more meaningful than shouting behind your words.

Wonder away. You think I know the answer?

As I see it, it's a question of nothing more than organization.

That ALMOST sounds like a statement in favor of moderation.

If an anti-drama thread didn't work here, then it would just sprout up on another forum with the same people anyway. I was pissed as hell when the Forum for Real Problems got established here, I'm still not convinced it's a good idea, and Dunc's little haven thread is the same kind of concept. I'm still dead set against any official enforcement of either one. But I'm still quite entitled to call you an asshole for shouting people down there.

Of course you're entitled. Comes across as hypocritical, to me.
But, maybe I'm missing some nuance.

That's my opinion, that it's an empty intimidation tactic, and I don't care if you actually intimidated anyone, but I do care that Dunc left the site, because he was useful.

I'm not trying to intimidate anyone. Just wasn't willing
to allow distorted answers to remain. Just as I am partly to
blame for the discussions continuation, as I KNOW that odeon
cannot walk away from a fight - even when he has absolutely
nothing to offer, those who brought up the issue there are at
least as much to blame as I: they should KNOW just as well that
I'm not going to let some half-truth to remain on an issue I care
about.

As to dunc being useful, IMO that usefulness went out the
window, with his stonewalling tactics. Yeah, he may know more
than anyone about how to run such a site, but such power is
too dangerous in the hands of someone unwilling to be accountable.

[Pyraxis]

Why not? Does it hurt your cause that badly if there is one thread where you're not talking about it?

There are PLENTY. In that thread, the issue came up.
And yes, any squelching of discussion of an issue is THAT
bad.

Did I squelch it by moving it here?

As I see it, it's a question of nothing more than organization.

That ALMOST sounds like a statement in favor of moderation.

I hope not. I admit I'm not sure on this one. Part of what it's about is me trying to understand why anyone would possibly want a thread like Dunc's. And yet there seem to be a whole lot of members who enjoy it. I don't get it, but there's enough evidence that I don't want to just write it off and ignore it.

Comes across as hypocritical, to me.
But, maybe I'm missing some nuance.

No, it's just me being unsure.

As to dunc being useful, IMO that usefulness went out the
window, with his stonewalling tactics. Yeah, he may know more
than anyone about how to run such a site, but such power is
too dangerous in the hands of someone unwilling to be accountable.

I would agree, except that I am willing to play someone else's game long enough to get information from them, and I got exactly the information I was looking for, when I did so. Therefore I see less danger than I think you do.

[Calandale]

Why not? Does it hurt your cause that badly if there is one thread where you're not talking about it?

There are PLENTY. In that thread, the issue came up.
And yes, any squelching of discussion of an issue is THAT
bad.

Did I squelch it by moving it here?

I don't think so. Splitting a new topic off would have been
squelching somewhat, but even that would be defensible,
if done correctly.

Worse comes to worse, I could always answer you in THAT
thread. 

As it stands, you leave my post there unanswered - which appears
to be a weakness, on your side, to someone who doesn't look in
both threads.

I hope not. I admit I'm not sure on this one. Part of what it's about is me trying to understand why anyone would possibly want a thread like Dunc's. And yet there seem to be a whole lot of members who enjoy it. I don't get it, but there's enough evidence that I don't want to just write it off and ignore it.

Hell, there are plenty of threads here that I barely visit, and that there's
little drama in. I suppose that's why so many hide out in the games section,
so much.

I would agree, except that I am willing to play someone else's game long enough to get information from them, and I got exactly the information I was looking for, when I did so. Therefore I see less danger than I think you do.

Doesn't really matter what one person sees. The real danger
lies in the fact that so many were willing to allow something
which they didn't understand to be blown past them. Without
clear public disclosure, just about anything can be shoved under
the rug. Probably even with, here.

[Pyraxis]

As it stands, you leave my post there unanswered - which appears
to be a weakness, on your side, to someone who doesn't look in
both threads.

True. But I don't care. It's only the superficial appearance of weakness. It would look far more weak to keep going on about it in an attempt to defend my supposed honor. The betrayal of too much passion amongst those who don't share it leads to exploitation of it. You know, that very thing you've accused Callaway of using.    If anybody really wanted to challenge me on my points, they know exactly where to find me, and I'd answer.

Doesn't really matter what one person sees. The real danger
lies in the fact that so many were willing to allow something
which they didn't understand to be blown past them. Without
clear public disclosure, just about anything can be shoved under
the rug. Probably even with, here.

True. But there, you're fighting the ignorance of the masses. If you really want to wake up the masses, bludgeoning them into apathy isn't the way to do it.

[Calandale]

True. But I don't care. It's only the superficial appearance of weakness. It would look far more weak to keep going on about it in an attempt to defend my supposed honor... If anybody really wanted to challenge me on my points, they know exactly where to find me, and I'd answer.
 

Heh. BUT, the point is that they see my response, and that you've
stopped. There's no 'honor' at stake here, for you. Though, it would
have looked a bit hypocritical to continue it there, after what you said.
So, in a sense, we both win. 

The betrayal of too much passion amongst those who don't share it leads to exploitation of it. You know, that very thing you've accused Callaway of using. 

I don't remember doing this. I've accused her of fighting dirtier than I would,
being addicted to remaining in power, placating others in hopes of the prior goal,
and being turned by exceedingly trivial matters. The latter is the closest, because
she then would use every opportunity and weapon in order to fight, but I don't
see any exploitation of the passion itself. Just a blindness to other factors in other
contexts.

True. But there, you're fighting the ignorance of the masses. If you really want to wake up the masses, bludgeoning them into apathy isn't the way to do it.

And, if I knew what I really desired, maybe I'd act differently.
But, THIS made me feel better. Superior. That was enough.

[Pyraxis]

The betrayal of too much passion amongst those who don't share it leads to exploitation of it. You know, that very thing you've accused Callaway of using. 

I don't remember doing this. (...) I don't
see any exploitation of the passion itself.

There was a point a while back where you were going after her for not showing any of herself on here, while attacking you for having shown yourself. I tried a few searches but there seems to be a problem with the site search function and I'm not about to go track them down by hand.

Was it for some reason other than thinking she was exploiting passion?

And, if I knew what I really desired, maybe I'd act differently.
But, THIS made me feel better. Superior. That was enough.

 

[Calandale]

There was a point a while back where you were going after her for not showing any of herself on here, while attacking you for having shown yourself. I tried a few searches but there seems to be a problem with the site search function and I'm not about to go track them down by hand.

Was it for some reason other than thinking she was exploiting passion?

Ah yes. I don't see exploiting passion as part of that. I included that
in not fighting fairly. She was attacking me (and others) with personal
things which we revealed, without having revealed much herself. But, given
that scrap had done the same to her, in the one instance that I found most
egregious, I've let that go largely.

I think I 'exploit' my passion in any fight I'm in.
I couldn't be bothered otherwise.

And, if I knew what I really desired, maybe I'd act differently.
But, THIS made me feel better. Superior. That was enough.

 

Don't stick it out, 'lessin' you're plannin' on usin' it.

What's the point that we post here? Personal enjoyment.
There's nothing seriously going to be learned from this.
Don't kid yourself. It's too easy to use as an excuse, making
things seem more noble (pitm).

[Pyraxis]

What's the point that we post here? Personal enjoyment.
There's nothing seriously going to be learned from this.
Don't kid yourself. It's too easy to use as an excuse, making
things seem more noble (pitm).

I'm learning things. I've been frustrated by politics for a long time - it's always seemed like such a complex system that I could never understand enough of, one detail at a time, to have any hope of sorting through even a simple issue like which presidential candidate to vote for.

But there seem to be enough bridges between the functioning of individual psychology and the operation of a small group that I'm wondering if it's a workable model for coming closer to understanding of larger groups. Not perfect of course, but I see the whole universe as a fractal anyway, so it helps.

[Calandale]

I'm learning things. I've been frustrated by politics for a long time - it's always seemed like such a complex system that I could never understand enough of, one detail at a time, to have any hope of sorting through even a simple issue like which presidential candidate to vote for.

But there seem to be enough bridges between the functioning of individual psychology and the operation of a small group that I'm wondering if it's a workable model for coming closer to understanding of larger groups. Not perfect of course, but I see the whole universe as a fractal anyway, so it helps.

Ah, I forget how young you are. Hell, there are probably moments
where I believe that I'm trying to change things here. Or that I have
some goal to discover. Chaos, there really was one - which only really
applied to online sites: there are different rules. But, I can't see getting
too much about the intricate functionings of political machinery through
some small group. Yes, key decisions ARE made for very personal reasons,
but the machinery itself has it's own life, which can't be understood by
JUST understanding the people involved. Nor can people be understood
from afar. One has to taste them, to really get a measure.

[Pyraxis]

What, because all old people are depressed and cynical about their ability to change anything? I hope I never get that kind of old, and I see no reason my mind would get burned out so long as I can keep up the momentum of discovery.

I'm not sure what's the best way to figure out the machinery. We don't see much of that here precisely because of what you discovered - it's too small a system, people don't want the kind of mechanics you tried to get implemented. Would have been top heavy.

I suppose I'll have to watch the business world.

I'm not too worried about being able to taste people though - my taste buds do operate from afar.

[Calandale]

What, because all old people are depressed and cynical about their ability to change anything? I hope I never get that kind of old, and I see no reason my mind would get burned out so long as I can keep up the momentum of discovery.

No. Because you don't have much experience about how small groups work.

I'm not sure what's the best way to figure out the machinery. We don't see much of that here precisely because of what you discovered - it's too small a system, people don't want the kind of mechanics you tried to get implemented. Would have been top heavy.

Defining the machinery was the thing which riled them.
Things work just fine for those who hold the current
reigns, and they wouldn't want that shaken up. Again
though, this isn't conscious, but the fear of restrictions on
how staff could operate was too much for some. Newer staff
tend to be very tentative (except say hadron), and unwilling
to make moves which will piss anyone off. The established people
have a good feel about how those who voted them in/might
complain will react to things, so they don't fuck with shit which
will cause possible problems. Of course, it's ok to fuck with an
outsider's shit.

I suppose I'll have to watch the business world.

Among other things. Remember that not all of the
'business world' is apparent though. There's big money
and power which is essentially invisible - stuff that doesn't
show up in fortune 500.

I'm not too worried about being able to taste people though - my taste buds do operate from afar.

Same, to some extent. But, not to understand their full motivations.
That almost takes being them, which is tough without contact.

[Eclair]

What do you think of this music?