Calandale's turn in the spotlight

[Tristeza]

Will you post a video of you talking about your haircut/lack of moustache/anything or perhaps do the dicky do that didn't work out before? 

There IS a working version of dicky do.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=26395150

[Calandale]

Yet, I DID repeatedly ask, in the admin forum,
and later in public, that there be a public notification.

I tend to skim through your posts, so I probably missed most of those.

There isn't a hell of a lot of my
posts, in the admin forum. And,
you weren't the only person with
access.

Kinda a dereliction of duty, IMO.

[odeon]

When compared to your posts elsewhere.

[purposefulinsanity]

Yet, I DID repeatedly ask, in the admin forum,
and later in public, that there be a public notification.

I tend to skim through your posts, so I probably missed most of those.

Did Cal spam the admin forum?
Wouldn't you think that one of the staff members would have thought it was important to read another admin's posts in the admin forum in case it was important? 

Before anyone starts groaning I'm not starting all this up again- I just really don't believe that it didn't occur to any of the staff members to announce the list so people could be put on it.  I don't believe that no-one saw Cal's posts about doing this.  Why wasn't it announced as soon as it was started?  I honestly believe that perhaps who ever decided to make this list secretly thought it would be wise to wait to keep it from the membership -perhaps only till the fuss about the public list had died down. Why it never occurred to anyone to announce it later isn't as important as why it was decided to keep it quiet for a while in the first place. But everyone who might know the answer to this one seems to be keeping it to themselves.

[odeon]

PI,

First of all, you know perfectly well that spam happens in the admin forum as well. With Calandale's history of repeatedly spamming about his favoured subjects, I'm surely not the only one to skim through his posts, in the admin forum and elsewhere. But if you want me to (and with Calandale's permission), I can see how many protests he actually made in that forum and publish them here?

And I can only answer for myself, but I did not consciously keep that list a secret. Nor am I aware of anyone else consciously keeping it a secret. AFAIK, it was just something that happened when there were lots of pranks to worry about, and then slipped, just as lots of other subjects in that forum.

If you don't want to start this up again, don't bring it up. Don't hint at a conspiracy of some kind. 

[Calandale]

Did Cal spam the admin forum?

Lightly. As did others.
Having Milla and I in there
at the same time wasn't conducive
to keeping extraneous chat down. 
Still, I'd guess less than 50 posts, in total.
And the spam was obvious, by being small
posts - one or two lines.

Wouldn't you think that one of the staff members would have thought it was important to read another admin's posts in the admin forum in case it was important? 

Most posts WERE responded to. As were
most points. At least by someone. These were
largely ignored (if not entirely - I can't really recall).

Why wasn't it announced as soon as it was started? 

It was started as a mere trial, with only one staff member's name
on it. And, in my prank (the only one which happened during that
period) that member did not get pranked, though otherwise eligible.
Sure got pissy about everyone else being so though. 
Another seemed to think that there was an implied inclusion
of their own name on the list.

Anyhow, since it wasn't even available to those outside the
staff, at that time, there would be no reason to announce it.
Later, when others started to appear on it, is when my objections
were raised. And ignored. But, I supported the list, in general. And
did not consider the points which you have brought up - that the
membership as a whole would oppose it. Or even that they should
have any say - given that we are now technically a dictatorship. This
was an idea which was started by our fearless leader himself, and thus
had particular power.

[Calandale]

PI,

First of all, you know perfectly well that spam happens in the admin forum as well. With Calandale's history of repeatedly spamming about his favoured subjects, I'm surely not the only one to skim through his posts, in the admin forum and elsewhere. But if you want me to (and with Calandale's permission), I can see how many protests he actually made in that forum and publish them here?

Feel free. I think that there were two or three, all in a single thread.
May have noted it in others, as well. As per my usual tactics of trying to
bring things which were put aside back into view.

You can also post my total # of posts in the admin forum.

And I can only answer for myself, but I did not consciously keep that list a secret. Nor am I aware of anyone else consciously keeping it a secret. AFAIK, it was just something that happened when there were lots of pranks to worry about, and then slipped, just as lots of other subjects in that forum.

The discussion came AFTER the pranks were cleaned up, upon my
reinstatement to the staff. Before that, there had only been one name
on the list.

If you don't want to start this up again, don't bring it up. Don't hint at a conspiracy of some kind. 

Yes. Because free discussion of issues can only shake our
faith.

[purposefulinsanity]

If you don't want to start this up again, don't bring it up. Don't hint at a conspiracy of some kind.

I'm not hinting at a conspiracy- I saying what I suspected happened- judging by the fact that the person who seemed to have the biggest bee in their bonnet about people leaving because of the pranks hasn't answered any of the questions about why it was kept secret. 

The reason I said anything at all was because I not happy with the way Cal is being painted as a lying, shit stirrer who is the only one who's keeping this drama going.  I'm also frustrated by the fact it took me asking several times before anyone would offer any reason why the list was kept secret in the first place.

As well as Cal's posts about this it would be interesting to read what, if any response these got.

[Calandale]

Hell, maybe a copy of the whole thread (including spam) could
be moved here, with the sensitive information redacted.

[odeon]

Your reply on November 3, BEFORE you were deadminned, BEFORE the pranks that got you deadminned:

I don't think the current group is likely to
be a problem. I have no objections, but
think that we ought to formalize this, through
the WC, if we can. The only problem that I see
is that if someone like Pea gets elected, he may
honor the list, but give terrible shit to someone
for being on it.

Opt out can cause bullying.

On Nov 5, after several staff members had agreed to honour the list:

So, are we publicizing the availability of
such a list?

Also on November 5, while the discussion was still going on, BEFORE your pranks:

I think that we should just let people know
that there is such a list, and to PM an admin
if you wish to be added. I guess we could
drop people on ourselves, if we felt 'twas
necessary, but I'm hoping that this is merely
a temporary solution. I don't think that there's
a single one of us who is likely to pull such a
prank against someone who would mind -
with or without this list.

But, since this is voluntary, and some don't see
the idea of 'no pranks' as really being I2 any
longer, there may well be those who simply
won't agree.

We need to get some sort of direction from
the WC here, to either make such a list mandatory,
or simply add the kind of pranking that it prevents
to the impeachable offenses.

In one sense, this is actually an attempt to supplant
the power of the WC, as what happens if they were
to order us to make pranks against Callaway? Given
that I unthinkingly agreed to this list, I'd feel forced
to resign. Sure, this isn't going to happen, but it's
the type of thinking that we should put into things.
Finding one such possible problem probably means that
there are others.

You made another two posts in that thread before being deadminned, without suggesting to make the list public. You wished to add another member to it, and discussed the unfairness of admins pranking vs ordinary members being unable to.

Then, AFTER your pranks, AFTER you were reinstated, you made another nine posts in the thread, without another suggestion. Your posts were mostly about your pranks and how a possible new one would be different. I see no reason to publish any of those here.

Note that after you were deadminned, the thread was mostly about cleaning up after your mess. Also note that several admins, including Callaway, thought that of course the list should be made public, BEFORE you were deadminned. One reasoned that "we are not mind readers".

I'm not interested in your total # of posts in the admin forum.

Regarding this:

If you don't want to start this up again, don't bring it up. Don't hint at a conspiracy of some kind. 

Yes. Because free discussion of issues can only shake our
faith.

It was merely a comment to PI, meaning that if she doesn't want to reopen the issue (not that I realised it had been closed), why devote a post to suggesting something that to my knowledge never happened? Of course *you* just HAVE TO put a slant to it, to suck us in again.


-------
And PI--sorry about the harsh response but I do feel that Cal deserves the bad rep. Of course he isn't the only one to keep the drama going; I'm as guilty as anyone else posting about it. However, I felt obliged to answer, because I know what took place and what didn't, and my opinion remains the same--he is shit-stirring. Furthermore, Cal's been making less than flattering remarks about me for some time now, as well, to which I also feel I need to respond. Call me weak.

[purposefulinsanity]

So now we know that Cal did suggest that something needed to be done about the list.  Still don't know what response this got- although I can understand you can't repost those without permission.

[Calandale]

My memory is completely off base on this one then.
I don't remember arguing that the WC should have dealt
with it, BUT I am certain that I've put a number of complaints
up about it being private - I presumed that they were in that
thread. Certainly, once the WC was dissolved, there was no
need to deal with the mere membership - as things were
fully in the hands of Dunc and his Jolly crew.

I was also wrong about none of us pulling a prank on someone
who would mind.  But, I didn't think that my prank was
at all abusive. I really thought everyone would take it in very
good humor.

As to a 'slant' I don't see it. IF discussion is going to be squelched
through ridicule, it seems just as fair to use hyperbole. My arguments
were ridiculed before I was upset enough at what I saw - indeed, that
was a good part of what has caused my stance. Arguing points calmly
didn't work, and wasn't much fun, when all I'd get was a big yawn. At
least this isn't so one sided.

[Callaway]

If you don't want to start this up again, don't bring it up. Don't hint at a conspiracy of some kind.

I'm not hinting at a conspiracy- I saying what I suspected happened- judging by the fact that the person who seemed to have the biggest bee in their bonnet about people leaving because of the pranks hasn't answered any of the questions about why it was kept secret. 

The reason I said anything at all was because I not happy with the way Cal is being painted as a lying, shit stirrer who is the only one who's keeping this drama going.  I'm also frustrated by the fact it took me asking several times before anyone would offer any reason why the list was kept secret in the first place.

As well as Cal's posts about this it would be interesting to read what, if any response these got.

If you are referring to me as being the person with a bee in her bonnet, I answered several days ago. but maybe you missed seeing my post, Purposeful Insanity.

I wasn't suggesting that the list should have been made public, but it seems off that its very exsistence was kept secret- I do believe there was no malicious thinking behind keeping it a secret, but the fact that it didn't occur to staff to anounce it to the membership is worrying.  Not least because, as cal points out, how could anyone who didn't happen to be friendly with an admin get their name on the list, but also because it makes you wonder what else it isn't occuring to staff members to mention.  Obviously this isn't much of an issue, being married to a staff member I trust 100%  , but you must see that it may cause concern for other members. Perhaps it was just overlooked because people were tired of all the drama

The list's existence was not kept secret for very long at all, Purposeful Insanity, maybe for a week or two while we were discussing it and figuring out what would happen with people who were on it.  Its existence is public now.  It was started at Dunc's suggestion and it was just meant for staff to honor as a gentleman's agreement, I think.  Although Calandale suggested that there be some sort of official sanctions against admins who prank someone on the list, I don't think anyone else supported that idea.  As you said, it was pointed out that anyone who put their names on the public Don't Prank Me list were pasting a giant Kick Me sign on their backs to be pranked by other members.  If someone expressed their desire not to be pranked by staff either publicly, like on the public Don't Prank Me list, or in private, they were added to the list, as far as I know.  There were some people who were upset enough by the admin pranks that they were ready to leave, so all the staff at the time pretty much agreed to honor the list.  Renaeden's correct that it has not been posted in for quite some time.  I have no intention of pranking anyone who is on it, though.  

Calandale is suggesting that there was some sort of conspiracy to keep the list a secret, but there wasn't.  Nobody was deliberately keeping the list a secret until Calandale's prank happened.  Everyone who posted agreed that the availability of the list should be made public.  We were discussing it and trying to figure out what would happen with people who were on it, given that there were concerns that the people on the public one were on a sort of kick-me list.  At first, nobody was on it at all, but then I put myself on it as a sort of lab rat.  I think that I was concerned about adding anyone else to it without knowing what would happen to them, so I added myself and waited to hear more opinions.  There was a lot of drama going on all over the board at the time, and I think that everyone was very preoccupied with this drama.  For example, Dunc started his "Is this working out" poll on November 6 and there was also a lot of drama going on just before then which led to him making this poll.

The availability of the list is public and has been for months and now there is a poll about it.

[Calandale]

Calandale is suggesting that there was some sort of conspiracy to keep the list a secret, but there wasn't.

WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU GET THIS?

This is just you, once again, painting EVERY SINGLE THING that I
say in the blackest terms possible. Which you have done, ever sense
my prank somehow made you declare war on me. You and I used
to maintain a conflict which was mostly civil. I've remained mainly so.
You've resorted to lies.

  Everyone who posted agreed that the availability of the list should be made public.

I'd like to see your posts for making it public.

The availability of the list is public and has been for months and now there is a poll about it.

Doesn't compare to making a sticky, so that new members can be aware of how to
be added. All that I've been arguing for.

[Rabbit From Hell]

Did you recently rape a penguin?  Are you trying to win an award for who can rape the most different species of animals on the planet?