I quit

[Phoenix]

No worries. I texted my son tonight saying I wanted to bawl and instead I ended up typing I want to brawl. So he sent me the theme song to Super Mario Smash Bros brawl. 

[Walkie]

^

[DirtDawg]

Once it gets to that level, what you are seeing in Minneapolis, it's not protest.

It's people becoming so angry that social order breaks down.

There is an idea called "the social contract" and it's gotta work both ways.

Why are people so angry and what can we do about it? Tell people to be less angry?

Also I thought it was 3 cops who allowed the death. And one cop who did a lot more than just "allow" the death.

You are correct and I was not clear. As I understand the reports, four cops were fired for being involved (and they were all involved, if you ask me, but you did not, so I am going to tell you what I think in case you might) but only one cop was physically responsible for this singular brutality resulting in the death of the suspect. The other three cops did nothing to stop this travesty of civil rights.

I am pissed, too.

Not so much at the cop who had taken the suspect down and cuffed him and eventually killed him. I am mostly pissed at the other three who took little note of what was happening to "the suspect" while their partner killed someone, (accidentally, maybe - too late for any of that!). One guy losing his shit and going nuts can happen, but three other "brothers in arms" not even giving half a shit while your buddy over holds and kills a suspect is a bit too far.

I still do not think breaking into businesses and stealing everything they can promotes community awareness of police brutality.

The message is broken.

Oh, and back to the cops, Of what criminal behavior was this individual suspected? I have heard that George Floyd, their suspect, resisted arrest.
I have not seen that video.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

Forgery.

The cops claimed that he resisted arrest but there is new cctv  evidence showing the opposite. Body cam footage is being examined now, not yet made public.

Would the cops involved ever admit it if he was being compliant and they killed him anyway? That's a rhetorical question.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

(1) I am mostly pissed at the other three who took little note of what was happening to "the suspect" while their partner killed someone, (accidentally, maybe - too late for any of that!).



(2) I still do not think breaking into businesses and stealing everything they can promotes community awareness of police brutality.

First up, I agree strongly with your sentiment. Maybe we could dance around a bit in terms of the words we would use, that's about it.

(1) It depends on how you define "accidentally". He didn't "accidentally" kneel on his neck for 5 minutes. He didn't "accidentally" ignore the guy's pleas that he couldn't breathe and the members of the public who told him to stop, that he was killing the guy. Being extremely generous you could say that it was "reckless endangerment". It probably wasn't the cop's intention to kill the guy, but a reasonable person could have foreseen that death was a likely result of deliberately brutalising a suspect in the way that he did.

(2) Obviously they've gone past "maybe if we raise awareness the cops will stop killing us". And, as Walkie said, I've got no doubt that there are people who love chaos and violence and disorder who are drawn to the sort of breakdown in law and order that we are seeing now. The rioters aren't trying to make the world a better place. Rioters rarely are.

[odeon]

The cops should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

As should the "protesters" who use the opportunity for their own violent tendencies.

Humanity is overrated.

[Phoenix]

The vast majority of protesters were peaceful. I know people who were there. Remember that there's footage of a cop inciting violence himself because he damn well knows that it just takes one to start and more will follow and then it's far easier to point the finger all "all those angry looting protesters" than to keep a shining light on the PD.

Rioting is not the initial wanted act of a community. Rioting happens after all other courses of action have been tried and failed. It's anger in action because something has to change. At this point, after everything that has been thrown at the Black community, I don't blame them one bit.

[DirtDawg]

Humanity is overrated.

That is why I Quit!
I might even disavow Darwin and go back to being some kind of apedawg or something.
Quarantine has only shown patchy results.
 

[DirtDawg]

(1) I am mostly pissed at the other three who took little note of what was happening to "the suspect" while their partner killed someone, (accidentally, maybe - too late for any of that!).



(2) I still do not think breaking into businesses and stealing everything they can promotes community awareness of police brutality.

First up, I agree strongly with your sentiment. Maybe we could dance around a bit in terms of the words we would use, that's about it.

(1) It depends on how you define "accidentally". He didn't "accidentally" kneel on his neck for 5 minutes. He didn't "accidentally" ignore the guy's pleas that he couldn't breathe and the members of the public who told him to stop, that he was killing the guy. Being extremely generous you could say that it was "reckless endangerment". It probably wasn't the cop's intention to kill the guy, but a reasonable person could have foreseen that death was a likely result of deliberately brutalising a suspect in the way that he did.

I was thinking of the implications associated with a simple layman's understanding of the legal use of the word accidental (or involuntary) where there must be consideration, demonstration or proof of some element of "intent" or negligence while prosecuting the most serious crimes, such as homicide.

Other factors determine guilt, in this case a distinct video of the crime contributes to that determination. Intent, as I understand, is used mainly to "establish" just how terribly heinous the particular crime is and intent is often reflected during sentencing of a guilty person.
These four cops share responsibility for this crime. Use of the word, "accidental" in my previous post was not meant to mitigate any of their culpability.

George Floyd did not have a chance to answer many of the questions surrounding the crime he was suspected of committing.

Someone must "pay" for this. At least four someones.

(2) Obviously they've gone past "maybe if we raise awareness the cops will stop killing us". And, as Walkie said, I've got no doubt that there are people who love chaos and violence and disorder who are drawn to the sort of breakdown in law and order that we are seeing now. The rioters aren't trying to make the world a better place. Rioters rarely are.

I would absopositutively agree. I think that there was a large gathering of people genuinely protesting peacefully, hugging, crying, shouting, probably pushing the limits what could be called peaceable assembly when some few decide to escalate by vandalizing a police car.
Many of the bystanders thought that was a good idea and off we go for a three day riot.

Kind of difficult to prosecute a mob, but I think we should try like HELL!

[Walkie]

Seems we're all in broad agreement on this topic and basically picking nits. But then some of those nits are pretty damned important

 I think that there was a large gathering of people genuinely protesting peacefully, hugging, crying, shouting, probably pushing the limits what could be called peaceable assembly when some few decide to escalate by vandalizing a police car.
Many of the bystanders thought that was a good idea and off we go for a three day riot.

would like to remind you of the pssibilty that people who were pushing the limits might well have been there for the aggro in the first place, just like that college "friend"of mine who would join demos  in "support"' of any issue you like ,  with that express purpose in mind.  Nobody wants them, but there's nothing you can do to stop them turning up.

Also Phoenix;s point might be relevant here:
 

There's video out that that one of the "looters" at an Auto Zone in MN is actually a cop. That happens a lot in situations like this. At the G20 summit in Toronto, they found out that it was people protesting who had burnt out the cop cars, it was the cops who had done it to make the public more sympathetic to their cause by blaming the people protesting.

Given that this was an anti-police demo, the cops would, once again, have been strongly motivated to make the protestors look like the bad guys. Can we be sure that they didn't sneakily  light the torch, so to speak?

Oh! looks like they did, according to Phoenix's other post (unless her third sentence referred to a dfferent demo? )

The vast majority of protesters were peaceful. I know people who were there. Remember that there's footage of a cop inciting violence himself because he damn well knows that it just takes one to start and more will follow and then it's far easier to point the finger all "all those angry looting protesters" than to keep a shining light on the PD.

Kind of difficult to prosecute a mob, but I think we should try like HELL!

Don't worry,  that already happens all over the world (Tianenmen Square? and the present day riots in Hong kong? Ofc,  I could pick examples closer to home, from the so-called democratic world, but so could you.  You're surely more familiar with American history  and current affairs than I am)

In my country it's not at all uncommon for protestors to be be arrested and prosecuted . The problem is that whenever video evidence has emerged (and /or witness accounts given credence) it's all-too-often become clear that the cops were not only using excessive force (not dissiimilar to  the arrest of George floyd)  but picking out peaceful protesors to arrest more often than not.  And, ofc, it's often  that spectacle of innocent people being brutally mistreated that sparks off the angry  backlash from nearby protestors . So the cops' behaviour  becomes self-justifying, retrospectively, just so long as their version is accepted.   I find no reason to suppose that's a purely British phenomenon.

In short, they really are trying like HELL to prosecute a mob, as you put it.  Already.  And I think that we actually need less of that.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

The cop who killed Floyd has been charged with murder.

That won't stick. The prosecutors know that. It's for show.

Best outcome would be a conviction for manslaughter, and throw the prick into the general prison population.

[rock hound]

The cop who killed Floyd has been charged with murder.

That won't stick. The prosecutors know that. It's for show.

Best outcome would be a conviction for manslaughter, and throw the prick into the general prison population.

Yeah, thats exactly what I expect to happen to this slime ball.  And he has a proven track record of brutality and being a trump supporter.  I hope he is shower raped and shanked.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

He will get protective custody. Prick wouldn't last a week in general population.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

A riot is the language of the unheard

How true is that now?

[DirtDawg]

My son was the first to clue me about the street clothed cop on camera looting.
That happened very early on while most of the state sanctioned spy cameras were still working, seen as possibly the spark plug that started the worst of it.
I'll bet he had help.
While none of that surprises me, it is just so damn wrong!

After last night's happenings nationwide, it seems that quite a few people agree with our view.