I quit

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

Oh I know. I was aware but they're usually doing it in the hype of the protest when adrenaline is coursing. To be this covert and sneaky and intentional in a different way, it will escalate things because it changes the dynamic of the "relationship" for lack of a better word. They've gone from intentionally hurting people to also intentionally damaging property belonging to the people they intend to abuse.

That's true, the cops can't exactly claim that they "accidentally" slashed their tyres. But rubber bullets in the head are difficult to prove as intentional. Of course, rubber bullets are supposed to be fired at the ground so if they are being fired at head height there is clear intent to do harm. Although, of course, being able to pin that intent on an individual cop is another thing.

Either way the cops have made their open hostility and violence towards the media very clear, and if you look at the way the media is reporting positively on calls to defund police departments, it seems like they are copping the backlash already.

[odeon]

Accidentally slashing the tyres of every car in a parking lot? Well, no less believable than that the old man slipped and fell rather than being pushed.

[DirtDawg]

Accidentally slashing the tyres of every car in a parking lot? Well, no less believable than that the old man slipped and fell rather than being pushed.

The only time I ever "Accidentally" cut someones tires down, we were in a demolition derby and I was winning, but I did not want to win that way.

I can think of many ways to "secure" a parking lot full of cars without cutting tires.
Honestly, I can not believe this, but I have to. We are all witnesses.
FUCK!

They want to disband and defund this police force, I say, fine, start at the top.

[odeon]

Yup, they need to rethink the police. What they have doesn't work.

[Pyraxis]

I think disbanding it and defunding it is a dumb idea unless it's going to be replaced with a whole new better trained force. The police system may be corrupt but not third world corrupt, and anarchistic gangs would be worse.

[odeon]

I'm assuming they'd not be closing down the entire force without having a think about what to replace it with.

[Phoenix]

The reality is that police can’t continue on as they are and changing the funding would support what they’re actually trained to do (basic policing) while also funding other organizations who can support the things they’re not trained to do. Especially mental health calls. No matter how much training you give the PD, it won’t be enough because it’s not their specialty and it shouldn’t be. They escalate situations that could be safely de-escalated with appropriate measures.

You strip them down to basic policing and it's basically about investing and divesting. Divest money from local and state/provincial police budgets and reinvesting it into communities, mental health services, and social service programs.

The model as it stands right now isn't working. Police are being sent for wellness checks instead of wellness social workers being sent and if you're dealing with someone with intense mental health issues (which happens a lot in the group home, shelter and homeless calls that they receive) they have a tendency to use excessive force or arrest when it's not needed.

[DirtDawg]

I think disbanding it and defunding it is a dumb idea unless it's going to be replaced with a whole new better trained force. The police system may be corrupt but not third world corrupt, and anarchistic gangs would be worse.

While I agree with you fully, the insurmountable task of training for every possibility is not do-able.
BUT, some broad level of all training should include reminders to respect and protect every person's civil rights.

Allowing a suspect to breathe while being taken into custody should come well before constitutionally provided civil rights, however.

I do not believe all cops set their day to see who much harm they can do. Even that despicable lowlife, Chauvin most likely did not chuckle over coffee that morning saying shit like, "I gonna kill me a nigger today." And yet it happened.

(forgive the slur, apologies to the memory of Mr. Floyd) But I think just not caring (maybe it's just today for this cop, but every other cop and every other American is responsible for his behavior if it is wrong) is something that HAS to be constantly peer monitored, by each officer,  of each officer by every other officer always.

[Pyraxis]

I think reevaluating the protocol for wellness checks, like Phoenix said, is one important piece of fixing the system. A cop without psych intervention training shouldn't be put in a position of dealing with a potentially suicidal or unstable person. Nor should a social worker or crisis intervention worker be put in a position where they risk being shot at. Maybe the answer is cop/psych teams, maybe it's specialized training for certain cops who go out on those calls, but it's sickening to see a basic wellness check on a vulnerable person end in brutality because the cops involved viewed every behaviour through the lens of criminal violence.

[Phoenix]

I wish they put more on the force but there's not many of those teams at all. In a region near me that has over 1.2 million people there are only 2 teams. Just the other day the police were called for a wellness check for a young man with schziophrenia (his parents called because he was trying to start a fire) and he was shot and killed. The SIU was called in but they're not releasing any details to the media other than the officer had very minor injuries.

My issue with the cop/psych combo is that I've seen them in action and they weren't good. I have someone close to me who lives in a group home and they responded to a call regarding her (she's 16 biologically but at a grade 2 level developmentally) and it was made clear they were only there to be used as backup. The Psych was successful de-escalating and the cop got impatient and said it was taking too long and she either had to stop her behaviour immediately or go to jail. Obviously she freaked out because she was terrified and she started crying and hitting herself and he hauled her off to jail.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

Many people always seem to think that more training or better training will "fix" these problems with police forces?

Training only works if cops are held accountable by the law and by their colleagues. Would better training have stopped those cops from slashing tyres? Training doesn't fix a toxic culture. The cop that killed George Floyd may not have woken up that day planning to kill a black person, but he did wake up with a sense of entitlement to use whatever level of force he wanted to and get away with it. He did wake up with a sense of entitlement to brutalise suspects, inflict suffering on them for whatever justification he had inside his own mind. He did wake up with a sense of entitlement that his colleagues would back him up while he used whatever level of force he wanted to, and the toxic culture meant that a man with a long list of complaints against him for excessive use of force was put in charge of a couple of new recruits. Is there a likelihood that the situation was deliberately escalated and the level of restraint used was excessive and prolonged in order for the new recruits to be shown "how these things are handled?".

Think about rubber bullets. Cops are trained or at least instructed to shoot them at the ground, and never to use them at close range and never to fire them at people's heads, as they can cause harm. All the training in the world doesn't fix the issue where cops actually want to harm protesters or journalists, and I don't for a second believe that cops are "accidentally" shooting rubber bullets at people's heads and chests at close range.

This is not a new problem. The new problem is that almost everyone is walking around with a high resolution video camera in their pocket and cops can't lie their way out of it. Although, of course, they still try.

[Phoenix]

Exactly. And when it comes to Chauvin and Floyd? Chauvin knew Floyd from a local bar and Floyd's co-workers say he had a beef with him so this really comes down to payback and not anything accidental. He figured he could get away with it and in most ways he did. Sure he's arrested but Floyd is dead and that's what he wanted.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

https://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/arrest-of-woman-caught-on-video-during-indianapolis-protests-under-internal-investigation

This is a good one. Cop gropes a woman's breasts, woman pulls away from him, woman is savagely beaten by other cops. How does training fix this?

"Under investigation" is code for "we're trying to figure out how to make up a story that justifies cops' behaviour".

[Phoenix]

Exactly.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

Exactly. And when it comes to Chauvin and Floyd? Chauvin knew Floyd from a local bar and Floyd's co-workers say he had a beef with him so this really comes down to payback and not anything accidental. He figured he could get away with it and in most ways he did. Sure he's arrested but Floyd is dead and that's what he wanted.

Was the intent to kill Floyd or was the intent to use his training in order to brutalise and inflict suffering on Floyd with no concern for his welfare or life?

He is arrested, but will he even be convicted? There is a good chance that he won't, the neck restraint used was legal and the question will be whether he can be held legally accountable for using the restraint for too long.

People act like this was a one-off, but the reality is that the killings are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to excessive use of sub-lethal force.