The Mexican Table

[Al Swearegen]

Have you considered moving here? You might even find it all you ever dreamed it could be.

No. Way too many Americans. Hell, I would not even consider visiting America.

But that ansered, why ask that question in the first place?

You seem to have a deep interest in American politicians, it must be hard to be removed from the people they supposedly represent, hard to not have a say in the direction things are going, and hard to be so far away from ground zero. But now it seems you abhor Americans, so I don't know what to make of it. Now that I think about it, generally its the other way around- folks more likely to have compassion for, and interest in the people, and abhor the politicians.   

No, I don't hate Americans. that is just a joke us Aussie have.
But in seriousness I do not have any longing to be or visit America. I recognise good things and bad things about America. It is a place in the world.
One of the good things about America is that it gives one of the biggest cultural influences to the rest of the Western World. Here in Australia we have our own culture of course and our own national identity, BUT we DO take influence from culture mores from America and Europe (mainly British but also from Europe).
Europe was tied to the EU. The EU was Globalist and "Progressive". Obama was Globalist and "Progressive". Therefore Australia had two Western World cultural mores to emulate either Progressive Globalism European values or Progressive Globalism American values.
Some of us actually do not think that is a particularly good choice. I am all for Liberalism but not the extremist, toxic, authoritarianism of Progressivism or the national identity stripping Globalism. Certainly not them both together.
Then Trump. just when we thought Hillary would be the third term of Obama. Just when things were terrible with ISIS and North Korea.

What did he do? Well on one hand he bulldozes in and promotes himself and is braggadocios, crass, uncultured, boorish and rude. On the other he sorted the fuck out of ISIS and calmed down North Korea. But something so much more. He offered a viable alternative as an example. If ANY other President but him achieved what he has achieved (and under severe duress) they would have their praises sung from the roof tops. Yes he does a lot of things that are not status quo and is indelicate and knocks over sacred cows but a lot of things were being done because that was the way they were always done and for not particularly good reason. NATO countries not paying agree remunerations towards their NATO commitments is point in case. He had every right to say what he said and though he did it very indelicately, what was the delicate way of asking? There was none because it was always meant to be too much of an embarrassing question to ask to support them never having to be asked. Trump had a knack of asking the "Well why not"? about a lot of things.

I see change. Not all good but change away from something that I see as mainly harmful. I see a few countries in the EU try to get out of the grip of the EU and I see hope. I see countries starting to put quotas on how many people can come into their countries and rejecting the EU Globalist idea of free traffic by all comers. The same idea as the Democrats are trying to push in America with Mexico.

I see some pushback against "Progressivism" and I think that is great. It is a shame it has to come from Conservatives but it is what it is.

Trump is not the ultimate answer to everything of course. But he gives another path and Australia will derive some influence from America and some from Europe. I am more confident with America's ability to shake off the pervasive soul sucking Progressive powerbrokers. Australia I imagine will probably instead of walking steadily down the Progressive path. Will probably have more influence and more of a balance to absorb. I think that is good. Seeing one way and one approach is bad.

[sg1008]

Well, I wouldn't consider it a good thing that we are a "cultural" influence to the rest of the world because what is exported is not what isn't, if you catch my drift. We are a lot bigger than the dominant narratives...and though the tide of popular culture often railroads over what diversity and folk life we have- we still manage to have it. We also have a lot reconciliation to work out among ourselves, things weve done...such as terrible experiments...the removal of people...the lawful discrimination against others. things that still scar. and we have cultures to remember- songs to rediscover, a whole new interest in various folk scenes....history of towns and settlements.

Now, the one good thing about our national identity and official culture of democracy, is that we have a history of THE PEOPLE doing what needs to be done. Whether its breaking away from Britain, standing our ground against confederate demands, or raising an internationally recognised movement for civil rights, creating conditions to keep workers safe, we get 'er done. Thats what you guys ought to take, and stop waiting for us to do what you guys need. You shouldn't ever look to anyone else but yourselves for what you need to change for yourselves. Our politicians are elected by our people- not by you or the world, so we are not going to be representing you, thinking about you, or winking at you-- so why look at us for change?

Quite frankly, the way things are moving along, politics aside, we are all going to be repeatedly kicked in the shins by mother nature in the coming years, and then subsequently by the aftermath on human populations (climate refugees, conflicts over land, massive migration)... so looking to us will really land you nowhere as our country currently officially pretends this wont happen, and that people who do migrate are probably just criminals. All of them. The men, women, and those sketchy little kids.

(for a better example, there are many African countries which have culturally dealt well with moving populations due to desertification, not all perfectly, but it would be instructive to look at those bordering and south of the Sahel)

Last thing- I am assuming you are an "ends justifies the means" kind of guy, because the president is so hurtful, vulgar, and offensive that there is really nothing to excuse that except a philosophy that if you get what you like (you- not anyone else), then its okay to incite hatred, violence, and feelings associated with oppression. Not to mention enacting policies and putting together committees with the specific agenda to target others rights. including my rights. this is probably the main reason why he doesn't get applause.

[Al Swearegen]

NO!

The scars, the scars. Enough. When does America become post-racial. What concrete thing do you think needs to happen?
You will never stop some people from being racist any more than you would stop people from being murderers. You will always have racist, thieves, murderers and rapists in society. We are not going to use the fact that there are racists in America as proof of your point because for all I have said it isn't.
Not worried about people's sensitivities or feelings, these are subjective, easily exploited and subject to misreading things.
Concrete SG. What concrete things?

Perhaps to free slaves?
Fight a civil War
Perhaps to stop segregation?
Perhaps to have equal rights?
Perhaps after legal protections have been given against discrimination?
Perhaps when everyone who has ever been a slave or slave owner has died?
Perhaps when a black person has become Senator?
Perhaps after the first black President?

No? What specifically more than when people do not "feel" oppressed, or discriminated, or subject to bias?
Because anyone can feel whatever. They could look at their life and say "The man keeps me down" rather than "I have every opportunity and I may have squandered some but I am able to succeed as millions have"

If Progressives breed an offence culture and a victimisation culture against everyone and run narratives based on an ideology of the Progressive Stack and contract every people as either victims or privileged. Then whether anyone feel this or that is irrelevant, isn't it. If it is encouraged then people will virtue signal their offences and force themselves to feel so.

America has done enough. It has done far more than other countries in this regard.

I can tell you my Ancestors from Ireland were bought to my country half way across the world, in disease infested hulls of ships in chains and with then once they were delivered to this sunburnt island, (with blistering heat and every reptile or insect or aquatic life designed to hurt them, were set to work to build the very infrastructure - in chains - without pay - with threat of whip and cane by their English overseers. Even after they served their sentence they were discriminated against by the British. This is why heroes such as Ned Kelly were so often given refuge and notice of impending arrest. Kelly and his Family were NOT convicts but his father was convict who served his time. Most of the free convicts were beset of by the Squattocracy and police, even once they were freed.

So with all that said, ought I cling onto the sense of outrage and talk of scars? Do I like every other descendant of convicts recognise that that was a Hell of a long time ago and those people are long dead. Australia is not what it was back then and I am not a convict nor am I part of that era?

Offence and outrage and a sense of disenfranchisement and fear and oppression are easy things to exploit and capitalise on. The Democrats do it constantly which is amazing to me. How many of them admit the Democratic Party's part in Jim Crow? Slave ownership? KKK foundation and resurgence? Any of it? Who DO they blame and is it history re-writing and projection?

So yeah, if people get themselves all outraged....so what?

I am terribly sorry but when the Left makes it a point of calling anyone who doe not agree with everything they say "Far right" or "Alt-Right" or a bigot of some strain, and seeks to deplatform them and makes calls to violence and dox, then yes the chance at a civil conversation has concluded. You will not have the kid of hands-off nice but ineffective Conservative politicians avoiding rocking the boat. You will eventually have someone who rocks shit out of the boat and who is immune from attempts to run away from smear attempts and who are not going to be shamed into "he should rise above pettiness" (aka "Why does he hit back when we try to destroy him").

The Progressive Left bought this on themselves. They made themselves unable to have civil disagreements. I HOPE Trump puts a BIG whole in the Progressive movement and destroys their ideology. I hope people get upset. I hope they all huddle in their safe spaces and I hope that they never get the amount of cultural and societal control they have over the years. They are not able to wield it reasonably.

I would have preferred the process to be more civil and not need a Trump or a Conservative. I wish someone on the Left could have been that person and it to be reached a lot more civilly. But it is what it is.

[sg1008]

[Edited to remove parts based on exasperation at being misunderstood, which I shouldn't have been surprised about anyways.]

The main point I mean to make is that looking at our politicians (relying on them even) to inspire change in your own country is ill advised (because the nature of our political system, our cultures and communities, and what our politicians represent) and can only lead to hardship as I perceive it. Praise Trump as much as you like, he his not your president, will never be (likely), and he is a problem our country created and has to deal with. You might see him as a godsend, which is fine, as long as you realise who he is ultimately answerable to.

[odeon]

Have you considered moving here? You might even find it all you ever dreamed it could be.

No. Way too many Americans. Hell, I would not even consider visiting America.

But that ansered, why ask that question in the first place?

You seem to have a deep interest in American politicians, it must be hard to be removed from the people they supposedly represent, hard to not have a say in the direction things are going, and hard to be so far away from ground zero. But now it seems you abhor Americans, so I don't know what to make of it. Now that I think about it, generally its the other way around- folks more likely to have compassion for, and interest in the people, and abhor the politicians.   

Al's basically a variant of the Trump voter but without the right to actually vote. He accepts what Trump does at face value and as gospel, and critical thinking is not really in his vocabulary.

[Al Swearegen]

Have you considered moving here? You might even find it all you ever dreamed it could be.

No. Way too many Americans. Hell, I would not even consider visiting America.

But that ansered, why ask that question in the first place?

You seem to have a deep interest in American politicians, it must be hard to be removed from the people they supposedly represent, hard to not have a say in the direction things are going, and hard to be so far away from ground zero. But now it seems you abhor Americans, so I don't know what to make of it. Now that I think about it, generally its the other way around- folks more likely to have compassion for, and interest in the people, and abhor the politicians.   

Al's basically a variant of the Trump voter but without the right to actually vote. He accepts what Trump does at face value and as gospel, and critical thinking is not really in his vocabulary.

This is actually untrue and only an idiot would say so.

Maybe instead of imagining i agree with him on everything, you could....i could let you know what things i don't agree with him on?

Spouting bullshit is more your sped and spreading lie and smear is far easier than trying to avail yourself of facts. Less critical thinking needed when you have all the answers to every question and they become fact because you say they are, right?

[Al Swearegen]

[Edited to remove parts based on exasperation at being misunderstood, which I shouldn't have been surprised about anyways.]

The main point I mean to make is that looking at our politicians (relying on them even) to inspire change in your own country is ill advised (because the nature of our political system, our cultures and communities, and what our politicians represent) and can only lead to hardship as I perceive it. Praise Trump as much as you like, he his not your president, will never be (likely), and he is a problem our country created and has to deal with. You might see him as a godsend, which is fine, as long as you realise who he is ultimately answerable to.

Hardly a Godsend but just the right person at the right time for the right reasons.

I look at who in the American system could have been the kind of person to really stand up to the establishment and Globalists and Progressives.

The closest over the years that came close was Ron Paul. Paul (like Sanders) was populist rather than establishment, seasoned and reasonably popular. The truth is that neither had strength of will, animal cunning or ability to run over the of the other candidates and to give as good as they gor, and dismiss the slings and arrows coming their way.

Paul could not do it when he was running and as railroaded as Bernie was, the same would have happened to Paul if he was running and we would have got Hillary or Jeb two status quo establishment stooges both feeding from the same trough.

It HAD to be an impossible candidate. The type of person that was a fighter and could view things differently and was beholden to no one. Right person in this time of history. Right for now.

If he was calm, diplomatic, civil and always polite, he would not have been elected. In essence if you do not want things to run same same then you need a change you can't have another Bush or Clinton or their ilk. I do not agree with everything out of Trump mourh nor Paul's mouth. I do want change and the talking heads getting the angriest are the ones i dislike the most.

[odeon]

Have you considered moving here? You might even find it all you ever dreamed it could be.

No. Way too many Americans. Hell, I would not even consider visiting America.

But that ansered, why ask that question in the first place?

You seem to have a deep interest in American politicians, it must be hard to be removed from the people they supposedly represent, hard to not have a say in the direction things are going, and hard to be so far away from ground zero. But now it seems you abhor Americans, so I don't know what to make of it. Now that I think about it, generally its the other way around- folks more likely to have compassion for, and interest in the people, and abhor the politicians.   

Al's basically a variant of the Trump voter but without the right to actually vote. He accepts what Trump does at face value and as gospel, and critical thinking is not really in his vocabulary.

This is actually untrue and only an idiot would say so.

Maybe instead of imagining i agree with him on everything, you could....i could let you know what things i don't agree with him on?

Spouting bullshit is more your sped and spreading lie and smear is far easier than trying to avail yourself of facts. Less critical thinking needed when you have all the answers to every question and they become fact because you say they are, right?

Only someone utterly blind to the facts readily available to him would disagree with what I said. But then, this particular moron has been known to do just that. I'd feel slightly sorry for him if I didn't know the extent of his stupidity.

Poor Al. Go on now, make it look like someone actually agrees with you.