Trump pulls out of Syria, forces "Mad Dog" Mattis to resign.

[Calandale]

This makes me think of something recently said, about the possible future path of the US taking a more passive role in world leadership, and how that makes some countries nervous because they might have to take on more responsibility instead of privately supporting the US while publicly sneering about how the US should mind its own business. Trump didn't make this decision on his own, and it's hopefully the direction the US will be taking with or without him.

I have mixed views on this. Selfishly, yes. I wish the US could get off the world center stage. Ideologically too.
Unfortunately, reality creeps in. When the US (or leading power) has withdrawn, things get much much worse
historically. This was the great lesson of two world wars. Superpowers are likely to do terrible things - but that price
might be necessary.

[Al Swearegen]

If we weren't injecting ourselves into the Near East, there wouldn't be an Islamic terror threat in the West.

True, but one can say that if you stir up a hornets nest, then you have some responsibility for the consequences.  Stirring up the nest then running away is more like the action of some malevolent little kid.  What;s more  (and again from a British perspective) we have enough home-grown Islamists over here  that extricating ourselves from the problem just by running away from it is pretty much impossible.

(By the way, note that  I'm using the term  "Islamist" not "Islamic" . I do think it's  important to respect that distinction. Not all Muslims are Islamists, thank goodness) )

This makes me think of something recently said, about the possible future path of the US taking a more passive role in world leadership, and how that makes some countries nervous because they might have to take on more responsibility instead of privately supporting the US while publicly sneering about how the US should mind its own business. Trump didn't make this decision on his own, and it's hopefully the direction the US will be taking with or without him.

Yes I think this is pretty fair. The US should NOT be the world police. It does not mean that the US cannot pick the fights that it should be involved in BUT there ought not be that EXPECTATION nor should it be US's responsibility.
The "privately supporting the US while publicly sneering about how the US should mind its own business" is bullshit and there is no reason ANYONE should put up with the ingratitude.

[odeon]

Early Christmas present for Putin.

Money well spent.

Enough of the 'Russiagate' conspiracy theory.  If you think that Russia affected the result via $4700 of Google ads then just    There's zero evidence that Putin gave Trump money. 

But just prepare to look very silly

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/19/mueller-investigation-findings-914754

Benji dear, you still have reading comprehension issues. I didn't say Putin gave Trump money.

No, Benji is right.
Russiagate is bullshit and was from the get go. Trump was not influenced by nor conspired with Putin and those still throw this around for consideration are disingenuous at best.

There were many reasons Trump won but Russian interference was hardly one of them. Russians did interfere no more than and no more severely than they have any other election since the cold war. This Russia colluded with Trump to steal the election or Trump is Putin's puppet or Hillary would have won if not for Putin, is misinformed at best.

They should have appointed you or Benji instead of that disingenuous Mueller fellow. 

[odeon]

This makes me think of something recently said, about the possible future path of the US taking a more passive role in world leadership, and how that makes some countries nervous because they might have to take on more responsibility instead of privately supporting the US while publicly sneering about how the US should mind its own business. Trump didn't make this decision on his own, and it's hopefully the direction the US will be taking with or without him.

I have mixed views on this. Selfishly, yes. I wish the US could get off the world center stage. Ideologically too.
Unfortunately, reality creeps in. When the US (or leading power) has withdrawn, things get much much worse
historically. This was the great lesson of two world wars. Superpowers are likely to do terrible things - but that price
might be necessary.

Also, in the case of both Syria and Afghanistan, the US were part of creating, or at least enabling, the mess to begin with and shouldn't expect someone else to clean it up for them. But I guess Trump realises there are no Trump Tower prospects to be had in either place.

[Al Swearegen]

This could have been written for Mueller

[Al Swearegen]

This makes me think of something recently said, about the possible future path of the US taking a more passive role in world leadership, and how that makes some countries nervous because they might have to take on more responsibility instead of privately supporting the US while publicly sneering about how the US should mind its own business. Trump didn't make this decision on his own, and it's hopefully the direction the US will be taking with or without him.

I have mixed views on this. Selfishly, yes. I wish the US could get off the world center stage. Ideologically too.
Unfortunately, reality creeps in. When the US (or leading power) has withdrawn, things get much much worse
historically. This was the great lesson of two world wars. Superpowers are likely to do terrible things - but that price
might be necessary.

Also, in the case of both Syria and Afghanistan, the US were part of creating, or at least enabling, the mess to begin with and shouldn't expect someone else to clean it up for them. But I guess Trump realises there are no Trump Tower prospects to be had in either place.

Depends who "they" is and what constitutes "cleaning it up"?

How many years of cleaning things up in Afghanistan? How many more years and casualties and billions of dollars ought America put into the "clean up operation"?
If you are not really firm on this and your moral, a Presidency decades ago started it so therefore every Presidency from that point on is intrinsically tied to that position good or bad and those reasons good or bad and is responsible to stay there until a somewhat vaguely defined standard of conditions are met and maintained, then they can never leave, I think you are dead wrong.

[Calandale]

This makes me think of something recently said, about the possible future path of the US taking a more passive role in world leadership, and how that makes some countries nervous because they might have to take on more responsibility instead of privately supporting the US while publicly sneering about how the US should mind its own business. Trump didn't make this decision on his own, and it's hopefully the direction the US will be taking with or without him.

I have mixed views on this. Selfishly, yes. I wish the US could get off the world center stage. Ideologically too.
Unfortunately, reality creeps in. When the US (or leading power) has withdrawn, things get much much worse
historically. This was the great lesson of two world wars. Superpowers are likely to do terrible things - but that price
might be necessary.

Also, in the case of both Syria and Afghanistan, the US were part of creating, or at least enabling, the mess to begin with and shouldn't expect someone else to clean it up for them. But I guess Trump realises there are no Trump Tower prospects to be had in either place.

Meh. No one cares much about culpability. It does't come into realpolitik.

[Jack]

This makes me think of something recently said, about the possible future path of the US taking a more passive role in world leadership, and how that makes some countries nervous because they might have to take on more responsibility instead of privately supporting the US while publicly sneering about how the US should mind its own business. Trump didn't make this decision on his own, and it's hopefully the direction the US will be taking with or without him.

I have mixed views on this. Selfishly, yes. I wish the US could get off the world center stage. Ideologically too.
Unfortunately, reality creeps in. When the US (or leading power) has withdrawn, things get much much worse
historically. This was the great lesson of two world wars. Superpowers are likely to do terrible things - but that price
might be necessary.

Like you said, there's no good way out. Will settle for a bad way out.

[Jack]

If we weren't injecting ourselves into the Near East, there wouldn't be an Islamic terror threat in the West.

True, but one can say that if you stir up a hornets nest, then you have some responsibility for the consequences.  Stirring up the nest then running away is more like the action of some malevolent little kid.  What;s more  (and again from a British perspective) we have enough home-grown Islamists over here  that extricating ourselves from the problem just by running away from it is pretty much impossible.

(By the way, note that  I'm using the term  "Islamist" not "Islamic" . I do think it's  important to respect that distinction. Not all Muslims are Islamists, thank goodness) )

This makes me think of something recently said, about the possible future path of the US taking a more passive role in world leadership, and how that makes some countries nervous because they might have to take on more responsibility instead of privately supporting the US while publicly sneering about how the US should mind its own business. Trump didn't make this decision on his own, and it's hopefully the direction the US will be taking with or without him.

Yes I think this is pretty fair. The US should NOT be the world police. It does not mean that the US cannot pick the fights that it should be involved in BUT there ought not be that EXPECTATION nor should it be US's responsibility.
The "privately supporting the US while publicly sneering about how the US should mind its own business" is bullshit and there is no reason ANYONE should put up with the ingratitude.

This crap has been circling my entire lifetime. If the Trump admistration takes the opportunity to take a big step back from it all, am in support of that.

[Jack]

This makes me think of something recently said, about the possible future path of the US taking a more passive role in world leadership, and how that makes some countries nervous because they might have to take on more responsibility instead of privately supporting the US while publicly sneering about how the US should mind its own business. Trump didn't make this decision on his own, and it's hopefully the direction the US will be taking with or without him.

I have mixed views on this. Selfishly, yes. I wish the US could get off the world center stage. Ideologically too.
Unfortunately, reality creeps in. When the US (or leading power) has withdrawn, things get much much worse
historically. This was the great lesson of two world wars. Superpowers are likely to do terrible things - but that price
might be necessary.

Also, in the case of both Syria and Afghanistan, the US were part of creating, or at least enabling, the mess to begin with and shouldn't expect someone else to clean it up for them. But I guess Trump realises there are no Trump Tower prospects to be had in either place.

The US doesn't have to bow out completely. It can be a silent financial backer in the cleanup, while someone else stands up front for a change, taking the blame or credit or whatever people want to call it. Recall saying here years ago, European countries will eventually have to step up to the plate. Only I expected that would be orchestrated around a catastrophe like 9/11, to make it appear justified to the general public. If the US's final play as the badguy is to step back, then it seems so much better than what was anticipated.

[Calandale]

This makes me think of something recently said, about the possible future path of the US taking a more passive role in world leadership, and how that makes some countries nervous because they might have to take on more responsibility instead of privately supporting the US while publicly sneering about how the US should mind its own business. Trump didn't make this decision on his own, and it's hopefully the direction the US will be taking with or without him.

I have mixed views on this. Selfishly, yes. I wish the US could get off the world center stage. Ideologically too.
Unfortunately, reality creeps in. When the US (or leading power) has withdrawn, things get much much worse
historically. This was the great lesson of two world wars. Superpowers are likely to do terrible things - but that price
might be necessary.

Like you said, there's no good way out. Will settle for a bad way out.

Yeah? Let's hope it's no worse than Vietnam. We haven't dared leave Europe or Korea.
I suspect the Near East is more important than any of these except Europe.

The withdrawal from Afghanistan (as did the cost of being there) helped take the USSR down.
Collapse of the US wouldn't be the worst case scenario here. But hey, at least we know we have
the 'best people ' and a 'very very large brain' working on this, so I'm sure it will work out well.

[Calandale]

The US doesn't have to bow out completely. It can be a silent financial backer in the cleanup, while someone else stands up front for a change, taking the blame or credit or whatever people want to call it.

Really? Who? Russia? Iran? They're not going to work as our proxies, I think.

Recall saying here years ago, European countries will eventually have to step up to the plate.

They ain't stupid enough to fix our problem here. It means way less to them than to us.

If the US's final play as the badguy is to step back, then it seems so much better than what was anticipated.

Let's see if we're willing to fade into the background like Spain and Portugal - or if there will be death
throes as there were with the disintegration of the British Empire.

[Al Swearegen]

No, Russiagate was bullshit and cooked up by Hillary

[Icequeen]

Meanwhile....Melania has decorated the White House in preparation for the upcoming Christmas holiday...

[Al Swearegen]

Meanwhile....Melania has decorated the White House in preparation for the upcoming Christmas holiday...

Nice European look