Student with AS Fatally Stabs Another Student

[Nomaken]

If ozy has any evidence(I would even accept "some guy told me") that the kid didn't know his attacker, I'd like to see hear about it.  I'll change my attitude entirely.  Because even with those articles included I don't see any reason to assume the kid DEFINITELY didn't provoke the attack in any way.  Or that he definitely didn't know him.  They always make out kids who die as wonderful people.

I don't really give a fuck about the dead kid one way or another.  If he did provoke the attack, it makes me feel good that he retailiated, but I don't care if that was or was not the case.  But I do care about people dehumanizing people who end up on the news.

[McGiver]

what happens when we assume?

[Nomaken]

But me feeling good about it was such a minor point.  It was almost not worth mentioning.  It was just a small side feeling I decided to mention because I couldn't think of anything intelligent to say about it, but I wanted to get back on topic.

"I think stabbing people can be used for good."

"And I don't like that the fact that they felt AS needed to come into play on it, since AS doesn't directly cause homicidal tendancies."

"But still, some part of me feels satisfaction that at least someone in some situation actually struck out against the assholes that plagued them in school, I think to make me feel better about all the times I couldn't strike back at the assholes in school."

Were all insignificant side feelings which I decided to mention.  Which is why they don't connect together well in the same paragraph.

Pay attention to what I said about dehumanizing people, that I actually intended to be significant.

[ozymandias]

I went back and re read some stuff about this and apparently the victim did know about his attacker, BUT, hardly at all.  As for dehumanizing the attacker........well, it seems he did that to himself, all to well.  As for the victim, the articles say he did not allow himself to be bullied, but, he was not a bully.  Look at what is in the articles, closely, is the attacker the victim, or is the victim the victim.  Either way a life was taken senselessly and now the attackers life is in shambles......except he's alive. 

[Nomaken]

I am not trying to justify this kids murder by calling the kid who died a bully.  I am feeling good about that theoretical situation because I am just plain evil.

But I am not going to believe a bunch of articles about a kid who recently died.  When kids die, everyone considers it like the highest tradegy possible, and anybody publishing an article that says, "Kid dies, he was mostly normal but sometimes a jerk," would get crucified.

If nothing else I can say good came from this due to this:



But the kid was still relatively normal.  Until you show me an article strongly suggesting he had some kind of disorder that incurs delusions or hallucinations, that means that even if this kid was very depressed, or very angry, he was still sane.

[Callaway]

http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2007/01/22/police_counselors_to_greet_students/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+Education

Police, counselors to greet students
Lincoln-Sudbury to address slaying
By April Simpson and Scott Allen, Globe Staff  |  January 22, 2007

SUDBURY -- Students returning to Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School for the first time since the fatal stabbing of a freshman on Friday will be greeted by uniformed police officers, grief counselors, and a school assembly to discuss the tragedy before classes resume, town officials said yesterday.

The state medical examiner's office yesterday officially ruled the death of 15-year-old James Alenson a homicide, saying the boy died of multiple stab wounds suffered in the boys' bathroom just before classes were to begin. John Odgren , a 16-year-old sophomore, has been arraigned on charges of first-degree murder and weapons offenses. Police have said he told school authorities, "I did it, I did it." Police said they have also recovered a bloody knife apparently used in the attack.

During the weekend, more than 300 students and parents came to the high school for grief counseling sessions with teachers and counselors, but the chairman of the Sudbury Board of Selectmen said town and school officials wanted to do more to make students feel safe. As a result, police officers will be on duty in the halls today, opening will be delayed until 9:45, and students will immediately report for an assembly, where John M. Ritchie , the school principal and superintendent of the school district, will address the tragedy.

"Unfortunately, it's a big day for us, and we want to reassure students that the school is safe," said William J. Keller Jr. , chairman of the Sudbury selectmen.

Keller said all the evidence that he knows of suggests Alenson's slaying was an isolated act and the other 1,600 students face no risk in returning to Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School. Odgren, a special-needs student who suffers from a mild form of autism, is being held without bail pending his next court appearance, scheduled for Feb. 2.

School officials are wrestling with whether they may have missed warning signs that Odgren was at risk of becoming violent. Though school officials have said that the boy had no record of violence and he was in a program that monitors special-needs students, numerous fellow students say Odgren boasted of violence. One student said Odgren had recently told him that he had a gun at home and "once tried to kill someone."

Yesterday, Keller said the slaying is especially mystifying since there is so little evidence of a connection between the victim and the suspect. Alenson's family had moved to the district from Natick in September, while Odgren's family lives in Princeton, about 30 miles away. He was sent to the Lincoln-Sudbury school district to take advantage of the special-education program.

"We don't even know that they knew one another at all," Keller said....

Until now, officials at Lincoln-Sudbury -- an affluent suburban school district where violence is rare -- have prided themselves on offering a high school without police or metal detectors in the halls. The federal report said beefed-up security usually does not stop students who are bent on killing. Though investigators have said little about the suspect's possible motives, they say he probably planned some sort of attack since he apparently brought a knife to school and the stabbing occurred before classes had begun....

Please follow link for full article.

I also read somewhere else last night that James Alenson was a special education student too, but I can't find it right now.

[Nomaken]

That doesn't say whether or not they knew each other.

[Callaway]

That doesn't say whether or not they knew each other.

If you believe that they knew one another, why don't you look for the evidence yourself?

[Nomaken]

I don't believe they knew each other.  I guess that they do based mostly on the premise that he doesnt seem insane.  And sane people generally don't randomly stab passing strangers.  But it isn't a very strong guess.  I am not putting a lot of conviction in that guess.  My thoughts that this might be good if he was striking out, given all the situations I, and others like myself couldn't or wouldn't was backed by practically NO conviction.  It was about as important as if I said Arby's is the king of beef based food products if they use cows with no hormones that increase growth since all the other fast food chains settle for cheaper meat.

[ozymandias]

If ozy has any evidence(I would even accept "some guy told me") that the kid didn't know his attacker, I'd like to see hear about it.  I'll change my attitude entirely.  Because even with those articles included I don't see any reason to assume the kid DEFINITELY didn't provoke the attack in any way.  Or that he definitely didn't know him.  They always make out kids who die as wonderful people.

I don't really give a fuck about the dead kid one way or another.  If he did provoke the attack, it makes me feel good that he retailiated, but I don't care if that was or was not the case.  But I do care about people dehumanizing people who end up on the news.

Ok, first you want proof from me that they didn't know each other.  I looked back and found that yes, they knew each other, in a passing sense.  They didn't have any kind of acquaintance.   Now you don't believe that they knew each other.  And where was it said that this attacker with AS was sane, as far as I'm concerned, this scumbag was a psycho who just happens to have AS.  That is my opinion, so I will agree that no sane person would randomly stab another person.  AS usual, the rest of your last post makes no sense.  And thank you, you have just turned I2 into another AFF where it's acceptable thinking to kill Bullies wherever they are.  Or that if someone has AS, they are immediately Noble for killing people just on the suspicion that the victim was a bully.  I'm sure that any curebies out there that read this stuff here and on other forums are pointing and saying, "See we told you so, we should put these people away for the safety of society."

I don't understand you and I'm tired of even trying!

[McGiver]

i doubt the kid had an AS dx.  they are hard to get in america.
he was probably just a member of WP.  so they infered that he had AS.

[odeon]

McJ+

[McGiver]

McJ+

thanks O-master.  but we won't know for sure until alex starts to milk it for all it is worth.

[odeon]

McJ+

thanks O-master.  but we won't know for sure until alex starts to milk it for all it is worth.

It's the idea that counts. Alex is what Alex does.

[ozymandias]

OK, the fact is the murderer had an official dx of Asperger's.  Hello, is there anyone out there!  I'm from the same region as this incident, I read the Boston Globe Newspaper the day after it happened.  Cynical bastard that I am, the evidence was overwhelming that BOTH the murderer and victim had AS.  The murderer, obviously had a few more issues brewing in his sick little brain, or had very large CO-MORBID ISSUES than AS.


AS advocacy what a fucking cosmic joke.  I know, lets all get knives and guns and kill all the Bullies that have, are and will bully us past present and future!

God, I think it's time for me to take a break!