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Author Topic: Intellectual Dark Web  (Read 11348 times)

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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2018, 09:25:48 AM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right

Thanks Pappy, that was an interesting history lesson. But since English is one of them things called a language and words change meaning all the time.... I'll still go with the broadly accepted current meaning rather than the original meaning. I hope that doesn't make your head explode.

And, once again, where did I say that Harris or anyone else was aligning themselves with the far right of the alt right or whatever? Not interested in more etymology lessons.

C'mon now, we all know exactly what you do mean and you do not  mean.
Alt-Right is who you mean when you speak of Anti-Semitic/racist/White Supremacists. The Neo-Nazi and Daily Stormer Fringe element. Far Right and alt-Right are used interchangeably for these people and it is estimated that they represent a population of somewhere between 15000-25000.
Now you can make different judgements as to how vast up to 25000 people is. Put 25000 radical fringe arseholes together being arseholes and this will be huge. But look at it another way and say even amoung the Conservatives that voted last election for Trump and you will likely be looking at about 50 million people (given some voting will be Independents or Liberals). Given that 25 000 from 50 000 000 we are looking at a drop in the ocean and they are after all a fringe element and an element that is not condoned, supported or encouraged by the mainstream Right.
Both are reasonable positions.
What is not a reasonable position is to play loose with definitions to broaden your tent to include people who clearly are NOT alt-right nor are not appealing to or encouraging the alt-right and pretending they are or that the alt-right is loosely defined as something else to smear people on the Right or who are Liberatarian or perhaps Centrist or non-progressive liberals.
We know what you are doing. It is dishonest.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2018, 04:37:30 PM »
Broadening definitions? Like where you conflate "bridge" with "align"?
“When men oppress their fellow men, the oppressor ever finds, in the character of the oppressed, a full justification for his oppression.” Frederick Douglass

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2018, 10:06:15 PM »
Broadening definitions? Like where you conflate "bridge" with "align"?

No more like "I want to associate a Classical Liberal soft-spoken intellectual who is against religion and feel the biggest threat facing the world today is in Islam and the fundamentalist terrorism and cultural clashes coming out of this. How can I do it? I know, I will pretend that alt-Right is a group a little left of Far Right extremists associated with that word. If I can stretch the meaning some I can include people right of centre. Now that I have shifted close to him and I am speaking about people who may be interested in what he is saying and who are closer in political alignment than the every more radical Far Left Progressives, now I will say he is catering to these people who are right of Centre (now deemed "alt-right") and all the nasty connotations that come with the extremism that comes with these racist, White Supremacists is all on these people who likely hold none of the alt-rights views, and now imply that he encourages alt-right and is supported by alt-right". Two-fer.

Except of course, it is dishonest as fuck.

It is the same trick as when you take the crime of rape and all the disgust and reprehension associated with that act and loosely define other things under the same umbrella. Doing the same with Harassment (remember Donglegate).

I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2018, 11:18:46 PM »
I read most of it.

Seems like they are holding up that 3rd rate intellectual Sam Harris, famous only for his great achievement of not believing in God, as some kind of hero. That's where they lost me. I actually agree that he is a bridge to the alt right, that's the best bit in the whole article even though the article didn't agree.

Who do you mean by alt-right? None of these guys are aligned or aligning themselves with Far Right Fundamentalists, so who exactly do you mean?

Your claim, bolded. Where did I say that these guys were aligned or aligning themselves with Far Right Fundamentalists.
“When men oppress their fellow men, the oppressor ever finds, in the character of the oppressed, a full justification for his oppression.” Frederick Douglass

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2018, 04:08:51 AM »
I read most of it.

Seems like they are holding up that 3rd rate intellectual Sam Harris, famous only for his great achievement of not believing in God, as some kind of hero. That's where they lost me. I actually agree that he is a bridge to the alt right, that's the best bit in the whole article even though the article didn't agree.

Who do you mean by alt-right? None of these guys are aligned or aligning themselves with Far Right Fundamentalists, so who exactly do you mean?

Your claim, bolded. Where did I say that these guys were aligned or aligning themselves with Far Right Fundamentalists.

Alt-Right is a synonym for Far Right and alt-right is a term used to smear ALL Conservative talking heads. Milo Alt-right. Jordan Peterson alt-Right. Tucker Carlson alt-right. Candace Owen alt-right.

So you could choose to be honest or you could push a narrative that when you same alt-right, you do not mean far Right and you do not use alt-right to mean Far right Fundamentalist racist, white Supremacists. You could try that. You could pretend that the term that has been used for decades to be describe these people.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2018, 04:26:30 AM »
**crickets chirping**
“When men oppress their fellow men, the oppressor ever finds, in the character of the oppressed, a full justification for his oppression.” Frederick Douglass

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2018, 06:32:35 PM »
Getting back on topic, I think Larry Elder, Tommy Sotomayor and Janice Fiamengo should be added.

There's others that should be added too, just can't think of them off the top of my head.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2018, 12:34:08 AM »
Getting back on topic, I think Larry Elder, Tommy Sotomayor and Janice Fiamengo should be added.

There's others that should be added too, just can't think of them off the top of my head.

Agreed. Karen Straughan?
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2018, 06:27:55 AM »
https://forward.com/opinion/400698/no-dark-web-intellectuals-like-sam-harris-and-jordan-peterson-are-not/

Quote
Reading the New York Times’ op-ed page, you’d be forgiven for thinking that the most dangerous threat to free speech is leftist totalitarians who criticize or protest against the right. Bret Stephens chastises leftists for criticizing right wing commentator Kevin Williamson; David Brooks bemoans leftist campus protests, and Bari Weiss often does the same. The Times seems obsessed with finding victims of so called silencing.

The latest foray into this redefinition of free speech can be found in Weiss’ most recent piece in the New York Times Magazine, about a self-styled group of pseudo-intellectuals dubbed the “Intellectual Dark Web.”

The I.D.W., as it is referred to throughout the piece, is a loose affiliation of very successful left-hating pundits who strenuously claim to be oppressed. Among those Weiss cites as members are the conservative writer and speaker Ben Shapiro, whose podcast gets 15 million downloads a month; the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson, whose self-help book is a bestseller and whose youtube videos get millions of views; New Atheist Sam Harris, who also has a very successful podcast; and critic of feminism, Christina Hoff Sommers, who has a sinecure at AEI.

These are people with large platforms, successful careers, and scads of cash. They are also people who, Weiss claims, are frequently and harshly criticized. For expressing beliefs such as “the existence of fundamental biological differences between men and women” or believing that “identity politics is a toxic ideology that is tearing American society apart,” these authors “have met with outrage and derision — even, or perhaps especially, from people who pride themselves on openness.”

Weiss presents the criticism of this counter-cultural vanguard as unfair, stifling, and obviously hysterical.

And yet, there’s an internal paradox in her criticism. Surely if you believe in free speech, then you should believe in the right of people to freely deride viewpoints they disagree with and find harmful, even when the derision is misguided.

I'd say this is a more intelligent and balanced article about the IDW. But then again, you'd expect me to say that.
“When men oppress their fellow men, the oppressor ever finds, in the character of the oppressed, a full justification for his oppression.” Frederick Douglass

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2018, 07:22:24 AM »
https://forward.com/opinion/400698/no-dark-web-intellectuals-like-sam-harris-and-jordan-peterson-are-not/

Quote
Reading the New York Times’ op-ed page, you’d be forgiven for thinking that the most dangerous threat to free speech is leftist totalitarians who criticize or protest against the right. Bret Stephens chastises leftists for criticizing right wing commentator Kevin Williamson; David Brooks bemoans leftist campus protests, and Bari Weiss often does the same. The Times seems obsessed with finding victims of so called silencing.

The latest foray into this redefinition of free speech can be found in Weiss’ most recent piece in the New York Times Magazine, about a self-styled group of pseudo-intellectuals dubbed the “Intellectual Dark Web.”

The I.D.W., as it is referred to throughout the piece, is a loose affiliation of very successful left-hating pundits who strenuously claim to be oppressed. Among those Weiss cites as members are the conservative writer and speaker Ben Shapiro, whose podcast gets 15 million downloads a month; the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson, whose self-help book is a bestseller and whose youtube videos get millions of views; New Atheist Sam Harris, who also has a very successful podcast; and critic of feminism, Christina Hoff Sommers, who has a sinecure at AEI.

These are people with large platforms, successful careers, and scads of cash. They are also people who, Weiss claims, are frequently and harshly criticized. For expressing beliefs such as “the existence of fundamental biological differences between men and women” or believing that “identity politics is a toxic ideology that is tearing American society apart,” these authors “have met with outrage and derision — even, or perhaps especially, from people who pride themselves on openness.”

Weiss presents the criticism of this counter-cultural vanguard as unfair, stifling, and obviously hysterical.

And yet, there’s an internal paradox in her criticism. Surely if you believe in free speech, then you should believe in the right of people to freely deride viewpoints they disagree with and find harmful, even when the derision is misguided.

I'd say this is a more intelligent and balanced article about the IDW. But then again, you'd expect me to say that.

You are right that I would expect you to say that.
None of these people say THEY are oppressed or victimsed but they say that the Conservatives collectively are and that male centric groups such as the MRAs are. This is hardly without basis and has NOTHING to do with simply deriding points. It is hardly the strawman paradox of their confused imaginations.
To pretend this kind of equivalency is not ridiculous it is outright dishonesty.
Balanced? That was a good one.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2018, 12:28:46 PM »
Getting back on topic, I think Larry Elder, Tommy Sotomayor and Janice Fiamengo should be added.

There's others that should be added too, just can't think of them off the top of my head.

Agreed. Karen Straughan?

Absolutely!   :thumbup:  I'd also add Thunderf00t.

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2018, 12:53:06 PM »

I'd say this is a more intelligent and balanced article about the IDW. But then again, you'd expect me to say that.

In other words, it's a leftist hit-piece. Let's go through the things it gets wrong, shall we??

https://forward.com/opinion/400698/no-dark-web-intellectuals-like-sam-harris-and-jordan-peterson-are-not/

Quote
Reading the New York Times’ op-ed page, you’d be forgiven for thinking that the most dangerous threat to free speech is leftist totalitarians who criticize or protest against the right. Bret Stephens chastises leftists for criticizing right wing commentator Kevin Williamson; David Brooks bemoans leftist campus protests, and Bari Weiss often does the same. The Times seems obsessed with finding victims of so called silencing.

The latest foray into this redefinition of free speech can be found in Weiss’ most recent piece in the New York Times Magazine, about a self-styled group of pseudo-intellectuals dubbed the “Intellectual Dark Web.”

The I.D.W., as it is referred to throughout the piece, is a loose affiliation of very successful left-hating pundits who strenuously claim to be oppressed. Among those Weiss cites as members are the conservative writer and speaker Ben Shapiro, whose podcast gets 15 million downloads a month; the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson, whose self-help book is a bestseller and whose youtube videos get millions of views; New Atheist Sam Harris, who also has a very successful podcast; and critic of feminism, Christina Hoff Sommers, who has a sinecure at AEI.

These are people with large platforms, successful careers, and scads of cash. They are also people who, Weiss claims, are frequently and harshly criticized. For expressing beliefs such as “the existence of fundamental biological differences between men and women” or believing that “identity politics is a toxic ideology that is tearing American society apart,” these authors “have met with outrage and derision — even, or perhaps especially, from people who pride themselves on openness.”

Weiss presents the criticism of this counter-cultural vanguard as unfair, stifling, and obviously hysterical.

And yet, there’s an internal paradox in her criticism. Surely if you believe in free speech, then you should believe in the right of people to freely deride viewpoints they disagree with and find harmful, even when the derision is misguided.

Quote
The I.D.W., as it is referred to throughout the piece, is a loose affiliation of very successful left-hating pundits

Bret Weinstein, his wife Heather Heying, his brother Eric Weinstein and Lindsay Shepard are all self professed liberals and only Eric is particularly wealthy. This line is a lie.

Quote
These are people with large platforms, successful careers, and scads of cash.

Again this only applies to some of them. The problem comes when these people attempt to speak on college campuses when they are invited by student groups. ANTIFA and their dipshit acolytes consistently try to shut these events down so no one can hear an alternative viewpoint.

Quote
For expressing beliefs such as “the existence of fundamental biological differences between men and women”

This isn't a belief, it's scientific consensus. Heather Heying pointed this out at a speech at Portland State University and the snowflakes in the audience went balistic. They called her a Nazi then wrecked the sound equipment. So tolerant, so open minded.  :tard:

Quote
believing that “identity politics is a toxic ideology that is tearing American society apart,”

Another fundamentaly true statement.

Quote
these authors “have met with outrage and derision — even, or perhaps especially, from people who pride themselves on openness.”

Yeah, we've all seen their definition of "openness". Physically attacking people they disagree with, shouting down speakers they don't like. So tolerant, so open minded.   :tard:


Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2018, 01:01:51 PM »
Video evidence of said snowflake dumbfuckery.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=116&v=n5D_ltpw7CI

Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2018, 06:20:33 PM »
The IDW are primarily a bunch of pseudo-intellectual man-babies who get butthurt if people disagree with them.

I see it elsewhere on the web all the time, stupid regressives who feel "educated" because they managed to sit through a couple of hours of Jordan Peterson or Sam Harris or some other tosser on YouTube. And now they're gonna school the lefties with their superior knowledge.

But, of course, the IDW-inspired arguments that they regurgitate don't stand up to actual scrutiny and they resort to insults when presented with facts and solid rational arguments to the contrary. But the one thing they've learned very, very well from the IDW is that when someone disagrees with you and makes you look stupid... they're violating your free speech. WAAAAAAH!!!

Showing them up as idiots and making their heads explode isn't much sport. I like to play "what IDW pseudo-intellectual does is this particular manbaby going to invoke as proof that they are right". You can tell from which particular dumb-arse arguments they present. And, sure enough, once you've poked a few holes in their arguments and pseudo-facts, they start posting Jordan Peterson or Sam Harris videos as "proof" that they are right.
“When men oppress their fellow men, the oppressor ever finds, in the character of the oppressed, a full justification for his oppression.” Frederick Douglass

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2018, 08:21:14 PM »
^^^ Posting in the mirror again...    :wanker: