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Author Topic: Theories on Autistic Savants?  (Read 886 times)

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Graelwyn

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Theories on Autistic Savants?
« on: January 12, 2007, 08:22:37 PM »
I am watching a programme on DVD that I got off ebay called 'the boy with the incredible brain', about a young man who can do the most incredible sums in his head, and who has mastered 9 languages... I am curious about peoples' theories on what enables such amazing savant abilities?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 08:26:40 PM by Graelwyn »

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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2007, 09:16:17 PM »
special interests, single minded focus, outside the box thinking and honesty.
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Graelwyn

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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2007, 09:21:46 PM »
Can that really account for being able to do sums quicker than a computer can, and extremely complicated sums at that?

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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2007, 09:55:02 PM »
Can that really account for being able to do sums quicker than a computer can, and extremely complicated sums at that?
this cannot happen overnight.  it happened after incredibly intense focus, for years, i assume.
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Graelwyn

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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2007, 10:02:28 PM »
No, as he was doing these sums from the age of 4. He sees patterns everywhere, numbers in everything and they just sort of flow in front of him as a mental image.. he doesnt even have to think as such, he sees it all in his mind. 

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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2007, 10:04:14 PM »
sometimes, when i get into a zone, i can do incredible things.
not to that degree, though.

have you ever watched spongebob squarepants?
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Graelwyn

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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2007, 10:28:46 PM »
Nope, something about the name always somewhat repelled me lol as it sounds so silly...why do you ask?

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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2007, 10:32:03 PM »
Nope, something about the name always somewhat repelled me lol as it sounds so silly...why do you ask?

there was an episode where he was asked to empty his mind of everything but fine dining.  he couldn't even remember his name but he became the best waiter/chef ever.

singleminded focused.
intense consentration.

whether he has to think about it or not makes no difference.  that's what he was.  that is what he knew.
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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2007, 02:23:55 PM »
I study thinking, but this is all personal armchair theorizing on my part.

I think with autistic savants, or savantism of any kind, the person's brain is naturally inclined to involve more, or unusual parts of the brain in the pattern formation and recognition process.  Autistic savants probably have deficiencies in being able to recognize and process social behavior, and those parts of the brain that recognize and interpret social behavior are reassigned(or more accurately naturally designed) to recognizing and interpreting sounds, and numbers, and patterns that aren't used normally in socializing.

I don't think savants necessarily make lightning fast calculations, I mean some do, and some people who arent savants can think pretty quickly, but I think what allows savants to do such amazing things is that they have pattern recognition abilities that are better or better suited to a particular task.  When you were first learning math, you probably did multiplication tables, and perhaps counted to make sure you were correct, but eventually you learned that 9X9 equals 81, and you didn't have to think about it, and 900 X 900 probably has an answer related to the previous.  And when you look at 9X9 you just intuitively know it equals 81, you don't need to check.  And when you aren't sure about an answer, say, what is 9X6?, you might be able to say it is 54 because 9X5 equals 45.

I think savants who excel at math know dozens of these small patterns intuitively, and consider larger combinations of these small patterns with ease.  For instance you know 9X9 is 81, and 90X90 is 8,100, but what about 99X99?  The answer to each individual computation is 81, and will be no matter how many digits the number is, the question is, what digits is it placed in.  Now most people cannot consider large numbers with ease, their short term memory does not allow them to hold on to too many individual calculations at once.  Some people have such short term memory that even if they can't see that 99X99 is just a series of 81's being added at specific digit markers, they can still work out the calculation just the way you'd do it by hand.  Which ones savants do, I am not sure.  I think it is more likely that savants learn intuitively that double number combinations like 99 come out with predictable and similiar answers.

9X9 = 81, 99X99 = 9801, 999X999 = 998001, 9999X9999 = 99980001

So essentially I think what produces savantism or genius or whatever is better pattern formation and recognition, or better suited.  Sometimes one pattern recognition skill is incompatible with another.  And if you want my guess on how that really works then I will have to start getting into biology and my suspicions on the nature of intelligence which I am using to formulate ideas on how to build true artificial intelligence.
And as always, these are simply my worthless opinions.
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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2007, 02:52:21 PM »
so you are suggesting a greater ability to recognise patterns.
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thepeaguy

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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2007, 02:54:01 PM »
so you are suggesting a greater ability to recognise patterns.

Pretty much from my end. Was a boring read, though.

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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2007, 02:58:48 PM »
Yes, but also a natural tendancy to form some patterns.  Autistics often believe that the socializing that NT's find so easy makes no sense, and even if they can be persuaded to see there is sense to it, they tend to think it is doing it the hard way.

In a broader issue I think that part of what attracts certain people to certain kinds of interests is how they naturally tend to form patterns, form their ideas.  People who are math inclined seem to naturally be able to see the patterns in math, and can easily learn new patterns related to math.

I am differentiating pattern recognition from pattern forming because I see pattern forming as a way of assimilating new information into your paradigm, and pattern recognition as referencing a given piece of information to a pattern you already know.  However in the brain they're probably the same mechanism.
And as always, these are simply my worthless opinions.
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We're all fucked, it helps to remember that.

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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2007, 05:12:05 PM »
Quote
Yes, but also a natural tendancy to form some patterns.  Autistics often believe that the socializing that NT's find so easy makes no sense, and even if they can be persuaded to see there is sense to it, they tend to think it is doing it the hard way.

to us, NT's are savants at socializing?
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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2007, 10:02:31 PM »
Well I'd say to low functioning autistics NT's are savants.  To aspies they are just well above average.
And as always, these are simply my worthless opinions.
Reverence is fine, Sanctity is silly.
We're all fucked, it helps to remember that.

thepeaguy

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Re: Theories on Autistic Savants?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2007, 05:40:25 AM »
Well I'd say to low functioning autistics NT's are savants.  To aspies they are just well above average.

Wrong, because there are autistics who are indifferent to those things.

And your low-functioning remark is insulting, btw. You don't really know fuck-all about a over-complexed condition that shouldn't really be categorised into different labels to begin with.

The spectrum is a load of bullshit.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 06:16:47 AM by thepeaguy »