Let's Have Another Argument about Islam

[benjimanbreeg]

Walkie- Yes, we let the wars in the Middle East happen, only the people can stop this all.  And the establishment have played tricks on the people.  It is true though that people ought to wise up and see through the propaganda. 

Muslims have it the worst at the moment.  Millions of people across the Middle East and Africa have been killed because of our war on Islam.  Disabled people have been the most persecuted people throughout history, they were being persecuted long before Judaism was established.  Jews are generally disliked because of their actions, well as a whole because of the actions of some or many of them.  Disabled people were put in death camps by the Nazis and there's evidence that there was an extermination policy against the disabled under Nazi rule.

Proof?

Not really something that can be proved off hand.  But you know it's going to be true.  Unless people were more tolerant and accepting of disabled people 3000 years ago, and if so it means we have dramatically regressed.

Nope, I disagree. 3,000 years ago, the likelihood of the disabled surviving for long enough to be actively persecuted was a lot lower than today, but people had plenty of competing tribes, foreigners and all kinds of strangers who all fit the bill better. Think about it.

Sure, the likelihood is that they didn't survive as long, but if they did, it's likely that they encountered persecution, and that would just be for being different.  Where as Jews have pretty much always suffered it because of their actions. 

[Gopher Gary]

I assume that when Al or Benji call me names, that's different?

Yeah, I think that's right. 

[benjimanbreeg]

In a bigot's world, it's never about attacking, is it? So yeah, it's obvious that you don't see it.

It could well be being that I am not a bigot and presumably neither are any of the people here talking about radical Muslim extremism or Muslims in general, you have really failed to make a point. Who amoung us have been critical of Islam? Who has said that Muslims are all rasdicalised and dangerous? For God's sake, what position do you think you are actually defending and from whom?

See, this is why I don't respect your opinion. This is why you are a bigot, and you don't even see it.

At least Al is taking on views he disagrees with and will argue till the cows come home with people he disagrees with, that's not bigotry.  Your complete dismissal of views you disagree with makes you a complete bigot in the true sense of the word.

Redefining words now, Benji?

1.
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

That's you.  The word has been redefined to mean someone who dares to complain about immigration or the effects of it. 

[benjimanbreeg]

In a bigot's world, it's never about attacking, is it? So yeah, it's obvious that you don't see it.

It could well be being that I am not a bigot and presumably neither are any of the people here talking about radical Muslim extremism or Muslims in general, you have really failed to make a point. Who amoung us have been critical of Islam? Who has said that Muslims are all rasdicalised and dangerous? For God's sake, what position do you think you are actually defending and from whom?

See, this is why I don't respect your opinion. This is why you are a bigot, and you don't even see it.

At least Al is taking on views he disagrees with and will argue till the cows come home with people he disagrees with, that's not bigotry.  Your complete dismissal of views you disagree with makes you a complete bigot in the true sense of the word.

i think you just fingered the real problem there  . And Our Glorious Leader will snark til the cows come home.  And we are all idioits and bigots. ofc.  And Even Walkie is tiring of this same old. Can't we talk about Islam, instead , FFS?

I'm happy to talk to you about Islam etc.  I can see that you are mislead though.  You seem like you are getting your information from people like Sam Harris, who just blames everything on Islam.  If there are suicide bombings, it's Islam or religion in general.  I guess he must forget that the Japanese and Vietnamese carried out suicide bombings.  I like to get to the route causes of the problem instead. 

[odeon]

Walkie- Yes, we let the wars in the Middle East happen, only the people can stop this all.  And the establishment have played tricks on the people.  It is true though that people ought to wise up and see through the propaganda. 

Muslims have it the worst at the moment.  Millions of people across the Middle East and Africa have been killed because of our war on Islam.  Disabled people have been the most persecuted people throughout history, they were being persecuted long before Judaism was established.  Jews are generally disliked because of their actions, well as a whole because of the actions of some or many of them.  Disabled people were put in death camps by the Nazis and there's evidence that there was an extermination policy against the disabled under Nazi rule.

Proof?

Not really something that can be proved off hand.  But you know it's going to be true.  Unless people were more tolerant and accepting of disabled people 3000 years ago, and if so it means we have dramatically regressed.

Nope, I disagree. 3,000 years ago, the likelihood of the disabled surviving for long enough to be actively persecuted was a lot lower than today, but people had plenty of competing tribes, foreigners and all kinds of strangers who all fit the bill better. Think about it.

Sure, the likelihood is that they didn't survive as long, but if they did, it's likely that they encountered persecution, and that would just be for being different.  Where as Jews have pretty much always suffered it because of their actions.

I don't buy it. The numbers don't add up.

[odeon]

In a bigot's world, it's never about attacking, is it? So yeah, it's obvious that you don't see it.

It could well be being that I am not a bigot and presumably neither are any of the people here talking about radical Muslim extremism or Muslims in general, you have really failed to make a point. Who amoung us have been critical of Islam? Who has said that Muslims are all rasdicalised and dangerous? For God's sake, what position do you think you are actually defending and from whom?

See, this is why I don't respect your opinion. This is why you are a bigot, and you don't even see it.

At least Al is taking on views he disagrees with and will argue till the cows come home with people he disagrees with, that's not bigotry.  Your complete dismissal of views you disagree with makes you a complete bigot in the true sense of the word.

Redefining words now, Benji?

1.
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

That's you.  The word has been redefined to mean someone who dares to complain about immigration or the effects of it.

So if I dare to react against bigotry, I'm bigoted?

[benjimanbreeg]

You think the UN has much power?

Indeed, they're completely shaping and unifying society and government on a global scale.

Yet they cannot stop the US and Israel from destroying the Middle East or stealing Palestine.

UN membership countries simply don't engage in war without UN approval. Granted, members of the security council have a higher level of control in decision making with veto power and supporting votes of allies, but the notion of not stopping one or two countries from doing something to me is a narrow view of how it works, who else is of benefit, and who is in support. If any other single superpower really wanted to stop what the US is doing, yes, they could in fact do it.

So when the US attacked Nicaragua in the 80's without the UN's backing and then Nicaragua went to the UN and the World Court and won and then the US just continued with even worse attacks, that's because of the UN?

Am talking about the big picture here. Global affairs have changed since the 80s, but that doesn't mean the US doesn't still step on the UN's toes, and has in fact done that in more recent years. However will still gladly argue that gaining control of the middle east is of long term benefit and fully supported by the majority of the world's government. Every superpower has their role in getting a piece of the pie; the US has to be the bad guy, the EU has to assimilate them, and China has to pay the bill. The only stand alone thus far has been Russia, and am thinking that's soon going to change.

Didn't mean to kill the conversation, if that's what I did. Did I get too tinfoiley? Don't you want to know what role Russia is going to play to get their piece of the middle eastern control pie? Russia couldn't stand back and maintain an impartial stance forever without it being viewed as passive complicity, especially not recently when faced with the direct needs of an ally. Russia's tokens of support for Syria has strengthened Russia's relationships with other countries in the middle east, and that includes countries which in the past have been US partners who more recently are inclined to gain favor with Russsia than with the US. Trump's election also signals improved future relations on the horizon for Russia and the US. Russia has to play the role of the good guy, the diplomatic negotiator working for both sides. Russia will walk away from this as the hero; Russia is going to save the world.

The US has always stepped on the UN's toes and always will.  Israel bombed 7 UN shelters in Gaza in 2014, and Obomber just came out each day and said "Israel has the right to defend itself".  Sure, things are starting to become a little more complex with Russia and China. 

Russia haven't really tried much to control the Middle East before, apart from Afghanistan.  Sure, this will strengthen Russia's relationship with Iran and Lebanon.  Good.  Hopefully Trump will stop the US's plan for the Middle East, but that will mean stopping Israel's.  So things will get interesting if he lives.

[benjimanbreeg]

In a bigot's world, it's never about attacking, is it? So yeah, it's obvious that you don't see it.

It could well be being that I am not a bigot and presumably neither are any of the people here talking about radical Muslim extremism or Muslims in general, you have really failed to make a point. Who amoung us have been critical of Islam? Who has said that Muslims are all rasdicalised and dangerous? For God's sake, what position do you think you are actually defending and from whom?

See, this is why I don't respect your opinion. This is why you are a bigot, and you don't even see it.

At least Al is taking on views he disagrees with and will argue till the cows come home with people he disagrees with, that's not bigotry.  Your complete dismissal of views you disagree with makes you a complete bigot in the true sense of the word.

Redefining words now, Benji?

1.
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

That's you.  The word has been redefined to mean someone who dares to complain about immigration or the effects of it.

So if I dare to react against bigotry, I'm bigoted?

OK, you still don't understand.  Questioning and arguing against people isn't bigotry.  Shutting people down or off and just hoping your name calling makes it go away definitely is bigotry.  It's difficult for me to convince a bigot that he is one, so I understand your confusion. 

[odeon]

You really, really, really need to reread that definition. And then have someone explain it to you.

[Gopher Gary]

Here's a picture of my butt. 

[Fun With Matches]

Here's a picture of my butt. 

Look how cleverly he added that into the discussion!

[Walkie]

In a bigot's world, it's never about attacking, is it? So yeah, it's obvious that you don't see it.

It could well be being that I am not a bigot and presumably neither are any of the people here talking about radical Muslim extremism or Muslims in general, you have really failed to make a point. Who amoung us have been critical of Islam? Who has said that Muslims are all rasdicalised and dangerous? For God's sake, what position do you think you are actually defending and from whom?

See, this is why I don't respect your opinion. This is why you are a bigot, and you don't even see it.

At least Al is taking on views he disagrees with and will argue till the cows come home with people he disagrees with, that's not bigotry.  Your complete dismissal of views you disagree with makes you a complete bigot in the true sense of the word.

i think you just fingered the real problem there  . And Our Glorious Leader will snark til the cows come home.  And we are all idioits and bigots. ofc.  And Even Walkie is tiring of this same old. Can't we talk about Islam, instead , FFS?

I'm happy to talk to you about Islam etc.  I can see that you are mislead though.  You seem like you are getting your information from people like Sam Harris, who just blames everything on Islam.  If there are suicide bombings, it's Islam or religion in general.  I guess he must forget that the Japanese and Vietnamese carried out suicide bombings.  I like to get to the route causes of the problem instead.

I don't regard   Islam , Christianity, Bufddhism etc as significantly different from other ideologies, such as Capitalism, Communism, Rationalism  etc. and further, I do  believe that ideologies can be influential. Maybe you , or somebody , could explain what's wrong with that  POV?

Incidentally, America doesn't  have a good record for tolerating different ideologies, does it? For all that banging on about the "Land of the Free" . i'm not especially inclined to blame the American people for that, I hasten to add, but some of them do become pretty damned  radicalised.

I can probably say the above , about America, wthout provoking a shitstorm...I think (but then again, I'm not in America)   

Well, i've got various responses queing up in my head, but right now I need to do other things, and also give my brain a rest, cos I'm heartily sick of clicking wrong buttons etc.  I hope that won't become an issue in my absence . I'm pleased to see that this thread has got to be less about personalities and more about other issues, since I last checked.   I don't wanna ruin all  that  by letting myself get accused of deliberately snubbing  people *wince*

[Walkie]

oops ! I took too long to post again, and made myself look like a prat

  

Hey guys! look at the cows, chilling out at home.

[benjimanbreeg]

You really, really, really need to reread that definition. And then have someone explain it to you.

1.
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Look again.  Sure, Al and Walkie are arguing against certain beliefs, but they haven't dismissed those beliefs completely or tried to block them out. 

Where as you have shown complete intolerance to opinion's that you disagree with, making you a true bigot.  I bet you wish you'd looked up the meaning before you kept throwing the word around.   

[benjimanbreeg]

In a bigot's world, it's never about attacking, is it? So yeah, it's obvious that you don't see it.

It could well be being that I am not a bigot and presumably neither are any of the people here talking about radical Muslim extremism or Muslims in general, you have really failed to make a point. Who amoung us have been critical of Islam? Who has said that Muslims are all rasdicalised and dangerous? For God's sake, what position do you think you are actually defending and from whom?

See, this is why I don't respect your opinion. This is why you are a bigot, and you don't even see it.

At least Al is taking on views he disagrees with and will argue till the cows come home with people he disagrees with, that's not bigotry.  Your complete dismissal of views you disagree with makes you a complete bigot in the true sense of the word.

i think you just fingered the real problem there  . And Our Glorious Leader will snark til the cows come home.  And we are all idioits and bigots. ofc.  And Even Walkie is tiring of this same old. Can't we talk about Islam, instead , FFS?

I'm happy to talk to you about Islam etc.  I can see that you are mislead though.  You seem like you are getting your information from people like Sam Harris, who just blames everything on Islam.  If there are suicide bombings, it's Islam or religion in general.  I guess he must forget that the Japanese and Vietnamese carried out suicide bombings.  I like to get to the route causes of the problem instead.

I don't regard   Islam , Christianity, Bufddhism etc as significantly different from other ideologies, such as Capitalism, Communism, Rationalism  etc. and further, I do  believe that ideologies can be influential. Maybe you , or somebody , could explain what's wrong with that  POV?

Incidentally, America doesn't  have a good record for tolerating different ideologies, does it? For all that banging on about the "Land of the Free" . i'm not especially inclined to blame the American people for that, I hasten to add, but some of them do become pretty damned  radicalised.

I can probably say the above , about America, wthout provoking a shitstorm...I think (but then again, I'm not in America)   

Well, i've got various responses queing up in my head, but right now I need to do other things, and also give my brain a rest, cos I'm heartily sick of clicking wrong buttons etc.  I hope that won't become an issue in my absence . I'm pleased to see that this thread has got to be less about personalities and more about other issues, since I last checked.   I don't wanna ruin all  that  by letting myself get accused of deliberately snubbing  people *wince*

Yeah, people are the problem.  Check out a guy called Chris Hedges.  Have you heard of him?

Americans are mostly brainwashed by the media, on both sides.  It suits the interests of those in power to have 2 different kinds of media, as to divide people. 

Just write responses on wordpad if you mean you keep losing your responses?