Could be Trump?

[Icequeen]

There are questions that need to be answered truthfully and people that deserve to hear those answers...so until then...waiting game.

Watergate occurred in the summer of 1972, although some reports of shady events leading up to it occurred much earlier. Boiling point wasn't reached until mid 1973 when an independent prosecutor was brought in Nixon had just been inaugurated for his second term in Jan of that same year.

November 17, 1973...Nixon declares..."I am NOT a crook."

Nixon resigns on August 9, 1974.

Gov. protocol.
Actually if you compare the two...things are moving along just about right..or faster.

 

[Al Swearegen]

There are questions that need to be answered truthfully and people that deserve to hear those answers...so until then...waiting game.

Watergate occurred in the summer of 1972, although some reports of shady events leading up to it occurred much earlier. Boiling point wasn't reached until mid 1973 when an independent prosecutor was brought in Nixon had just been inaugurated for his second term in Jan of that same year.

November 17, 1973...Nixon declares..."I am NOT a crook."

Nixon resigns on August 9, 1974.

Gov. protocol.
Actually if you compare the two...things are moving along just about right..or faster.

But I am not seeing the collusion.
Hillary and the Democrats were responsible for the collusion against Sanders and the private server and all manner of ill deeds that came out in the leaked Podesta emails.
It could have been Russian hackers and maybe sponsored even by the Kremlin. But this was stuff they did that was wrong and tge American public ought to have been able to factor into their decision making regardless of whether it was bought to light in a legal or illegal senee.
The hacking of polling machines was said to be from Russia but ultimately failed.
Did Trump set Hillary up to have a private server or did he manipulate Donna brazile to give questions to the DNC or perhaps he manipulated the DNC to work against Bernie all while colluding with Russia to steal emails off John Podesta after they do?

It sounds a bit far fetched. It may be some other collusion though. What is the charge? I know hebis supposedly colluding but what are the actual specifics of tge allegations?

[Icequeen]

Like I said, we wait.

Guccifer 2 was traced back to Russia, despite his claims to the contrary. Trump tweeting away on his little unsecured android phone is no more a hacker than I am a rocket scientist.

Key players in the drama:
Sessions.
Page.
Flynn.
Stone.
Manafort.

What's the charge? What's it about? Probably what it's always about... $$ and power.

Maybe there isn't a charge, maybe he will be **gasp** proven "innocent"...but it bears looking at...way too many ties/too many lies.

I actually "hope" they find nothing.

I do not like Trump, admitted...but the thought of something like treason or someone selling out our democracy in this country to further pad their pockets and doing it so brazenly would be far more sickening to me.

[Al Swearegen]

Like I said, we wait.

Guccifer 2 was traced back to Russia, despite his claims to the contrary. Trump tweeting away on his little unsecured android phone is no more a hacker than I am a rocket scientist.

Key players in the drama:
Sessions.
Page.
Flynn.
Stone.
Manafort.

What's the charge? What's it about? Probably what it's always about... $$ and power.

Maybe there isn't a charge, maybe he will be **gasp** proven "innocent"...but it bears looking at...way too many ties/too many lies.

I actually "hope" they find nothing.

I do not like Trump, admitted...but the thought of something like treason or someone selling out our democracy in this country to further pad their pockets and doing it so brazenly would be far more sickening to me.

No that is not a charge, you are ascribing a motivation.

Here is what I mean. If some burly detectives took you into an interrogation room and told you that you had motivation to steal and rob because you use money and would likely be happier with more money,  they would not have made a charge. All they have done is made vague smears on your character and inferred you had motive and therefore were suspicious.

If you then asked for what robbery or theft and they shrugged and stated that people rob and steal all the time, you'd probably think the interrogation a bit unusual.

I am not saying Trump is not whatever it is that he is supposed to be. But all of this "Trump colluded with the russians to win the election" narrative, how?

Did he get russians to trick Hillary into setting up a private server?

Did he crack John podesta's email and give that to the Russians?

Were the teenage girls sexting Weiner Russian spies set up by Trump?

Was Trump paying off Donna Brazile with Russian money  to leak questions for Hillary?

This is what I am saying.

I do getthat he won and she lost. I do get that whoever the hacker or leaker was, is said to be Russian. I get the ill feeling. I dont get the accusation. what did he specifically do to collude with Russian that won him the election?

[Icequeen]

Right now it is an "investigation".

I don't know what they have.

I do know that you can trace the ties, people are lying, and being caught in those lies...and a lot of those so called "fake" facts in the dossier can be verified by an kid under the age of 12 with search skills.

[Al Swearegen]

Right now it is an "investigation".

I don't know what they have.

I do know that you can trace the ties, people are lying, and being caught in those lies...and a lot of those so called "fake" facts in the dossier can be verified by an kid under the age of 12 with search skills.

Of course there is an investigation. Every Democrat jumped up and down to Schumer's drumbeat and I think even Donald said "Whatever"

People are lying? The only person I saw lie was Flynn. He claims he forgot. Probably not. I don't know. I do not care really. I do know that this was his crime and that it was not deemed collusion but rather lying about contact or whatever. Bad optics.Donna Brazile lied and was exposed doing so about the DNC leaked questions. Hillary lied on the stand about her emails. But who committed lies in this instance?
Fake facts in the dossier? You mean the #pissgate dossier which was soundly debunked and all the Liberal media scurried from leaving (I think) Buzzfeed holding the can? Or is there another dossier floating about?
I do not know whether I am either seeing what you see or have the knowledge of things that you seem to but I personally would find it interesting if there was a bit more to it. Trump as a double or triple agent working deep undercover somehow. I just don't see it.
I do not see the connections and how he influenced things for the Russians or how they helped him.

[DirtDawg]

 

Personally preferred the first response. It was an excellent point and would be willing to discuss if that point were made again.

I just asked if anyone but me has ever wondered whether or not the federal government actually has the power to force an American citizen to purchase a particular product. An example might be if "TeH G'vment"  made everyone buy McDonald's three times per week or face a penalty.

Conceding that something MUST be done for the lower to middle classes, I mentioned one of the many overreaches the current law takes such as the fact that a young male must pay for maternity coverage, despite the fact that he will be unlikely to become pregnant.
Continuing my previous example, I likened this to being forced to buy more McDonald's than one  can possibly use just to make this McDonald's overage available for others to use.

The current system is broken, but we need something in place. I believe we need some fix available that is driven by the open marketplace, something with an a la carte menu, to continue with my junk food simile.

I also wanted to remind each of us that what is in place currently took about fifteen years to establish, pass and take root and it will NOT be corrected, fixed and made fair for everyone in The First Hundred Days of a brand new administration.



After reading a few previous pages, I realized that the points had already been made and I felt stupid and removed the redundant text, leaving only the obvious, since it can not be mentioned enough.

 

the mandate is the worst part of the aca. I'm with you on that.

Way back before I joined here, well before O'care, I was a father with no job, a working wife with a shit job, living off our investments for our retirement. I was not quite ready to retire completely yet.

In order to safeguard my family I was "forced"  (forced due to life circumstances, that is)  to buy a form of health care insurance on the open market which was not at all active, since those who need it could not afford it and those who could afford it did not need it due to having great employer provided coverage or generous family wealth.

Either way there was no "competitive" open market for healthcare insurance and many restrictions to those who tried to provide such products to those who might NEED some.

I was suddenly "downsized" at work, lost my job (get rid of the old full time guy with the high pay and commissions, all those expensive benefits he has worked for years to earn and hire three or four young part-timers who could not give two shit about their future benefits, just want quick money today, and save half of what we are paying that old guy) and ended up with losing our healthcare plan. We could have continued to pay for it on our own but due to the sixteen hundred dollar per month price tag to continue on my own with no support from a large company I had worked for for fourteen years, loyal and faithful to that company we had to give iy up.

I went to the marketplace and there was only one option available to me, forget day to day care of a family (too expensive - over two thousand per month-  way more than almost anyone spends at the doctor's office per month.) and buy healthcare insurance that would only cover ME in case of massive injury or devastating disease and pay for a death benefit as well in case of my demise and we were spending over eight hundred per month.  Still way more than we spend getting the kids shots and so forth.

We are fine now. My wife has a great job and I do work some as well, but her company (UPS) provides all allowable coverage for her entire family.  Most do not have anything as decent to fall back upon in case of injury or disease.

I have lived through "NEEDING" and having to provide my own healthcare insurance  through the "closed marketplace."  I was lucky to have many resources at our disposal to get through this time, but most can not do as well as we managed during that lean time for us.


This country needs to have something in this area, but fixing the broken parts of the existing system is going to be better than a repeal and replace plan, IMHO

[Icequeen]

Flynn lied, Sessions lied, Nunes lied, Trump and the rest have lied about Manafort...etc.

Ivanka's bff is rumored to be Putin's squeeze.

Manafort (who they are trying to deny they even know anymore) played in Russia a lot, he helped work their campaign, he lived in Trump tower.

All that "buy American, hire American" and Trump signing the okay for the XL pipeline with the stipulation that the steel be American made?
Guess where the steel is coming from? 

10 points if you said Russia.

...and the list goes on.

Does anyone know why the Viktor Leonov loiters around the coast of Conn. close to DC now and then vacations closer to Mar A Lago on weekends? Better fuel prices?

The main question at this point though is:
Did they collude with Russia to undermine the election?
Did they enlist Russia's help to sway it to their favor interfering with our democracy as a nation?


The dossier is more than Pissgate, no one cares about pissgate...there are events, meetings between certain key players, and payments that are mentioned that correlate to actual events, that's what people are looking at.

It has not been swept under the rug and discounted...not yet.

[Al Swearegen]

Flynn lied, Sessions lied, Nunes lied, Trump and the rest have lied about Manafort...etc.

Ivanka's bff is rumored to be Putin's squeeze.

Manafort (who they are trying to deny they even know anymore) played in Russia a lot, he helped work their campaign, he lived in Trump tower.

All that "buy American, hire American" and Trump signing the okay for the XL pipeline with the stipulation that the steel be American made?
Guess where the steel is coming from? 

10 points if you said Russia.

...and the list goes on.

Does anyone know why the Viktor Leonov loiters around the coast of Conn. close to DC now and then vacations closer to Mar A Lago on weekends? Better fuel prices?

The main question at this point though is:
Did they collude with Russia to undermine the election?
Did they enlist Russia's help to sway it to their favor interfering with our democracy as a nation?


The dossier is more than Pissgate, no one cares about pissgate...there are events, meetings between certain key players, and payments that are mentioned that correlate to actual events, that's what people are looking at.

It has not been swept under the rug and discounted...not yet.

Sessions lied? Nunes lied? What did they lie about? Who was Nunes in the Trump campaign?

[DirtDawg]

 

Personally preferred the first response. It was an excellent point and would be willing to discuss if that point were made again.

I just asked if anyone but me has ever wondered whether or not the federal government actually has the power to force an American citizen to purchase a particular product. An example might be if "TeH G'vment"  made everyone buy McDonald's three times per week or face a penalty.

Conceding that something MUST be done for the lower to middle classes, I mentioned one of the many overreaches the current law takes such as the fact that a young male must pay for maternity coverage, despite the fact that he will be unlikely to become pregnant.
Continuing my previous example, I likened this to being forced to buy more McDonald's than one  can possibly use just to make this McDonald's overage available for others to use.

The current system is broken, but we need something in place. I believe we need some fix available that is driven by the open marketplace, something with an a la carte menu, to continue with my junk food simile.

I also wanted to remind each of us that what is in place currently took about fifteen years to establish, pass and take root and it will NOT be corrected, fixed and made fair for everyone in The First Hundred Days of a brand new administration.



After reading a few previous pages, I realized that the points had already been made and I felt stupid and removed the redundant text, leaving only the obvious, since it can not be mentioned enough.

 

the mandate is the worst part of the aca. I'm with you on that.

See, I make that as a relevant point to reel in some who have found the need for these products in their lives, but the real "kicker"  here is all the federal regulations that prevent interstate competition between the most capable of providers.

Clear the way for any number of companies in New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, Seattle, Los Angeles to compete for each others' business and suddenly, you have solved the "Group Insurance"  scam that has been allowed to create just legally short of a monopoly in the insurance business.

Yes, I am an American. I believe that business and the simplest form of capitalism - competition  - will rule the day.  Insurance may not be the ultimate answer, but I sure as Hell want to see those big companies cross swords with each other to earn my dollars!

At least give the free market a try before Uncle Sam has to do it all by himself.

[odeon]

You think he lost? How?

This was the first time he tried to achieve something without a presidential decree. He marketed himself as the dealmaker but couldn't close the deal in spite of having a Republican majority. Yeah, I'd say he lost.

But you know this.

[odeon]

It's interesting to note that you seem to live in some sort of denial over what Trump is and what he does, Al. I don't know why, exactly, considering that you say you don't care.

[Icequeen]

Yep, I'm done here.

Google is your friend...or your source of "fake news"...or can probably support whatever your reality wants to believe...somewhere.

I've got things to do and clothes to fold.

[Al Swearegen]

You think he lost? How?

This was the first time he tried to achieve something without a presidential decree. He marketed himself as the dealmaker but couldn't close the deal in spite of having a Republican majority. Yeah, I'd say he lost.

But you know this.

I know this was Paul Ryan's baby. Paul Ryan had it written and kept in secret in the weeks leading up to it's release. Paul Ryan not only refuse to let other Senators like Paul Rand see it BUT he refused to allow any other competing proposals be heard.

It failed.

You already know all of this.

Next bill will gwt more support and Trump will know where everyone stands. He will not have quite the pushback from Ryan's faction

[Al Swearegen]

It's interesting to note that you seem to live in some sort of denial over what Trump is and what he does, Al. I don't know why, exactly, considering that you say you don't care.

Interesting is the word. All of this American politics at the moment is interesting. Everyday 3 or 4 things are on the go.

What is happening in Australian politics? Does anyone know or care? Is it interesting?

I could not tell you the Swedish prime minister's name.

So is interested the same as caring about something? Not by the definition you care to associate my interest.

As to being in denial about what or whom Trump is, that is an interesting assertion.

By what metric do you gauge objectively my understanding or your undrrstanding or as to which of us has the better understanding of this person we know from tv?

You don't have one? It was your belief/feeling/subjective opinion? Okay, thanks for sharing