Author Topic: Could be Trump?  (Read 25674 times)

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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #120 on: November 16, 2016, 01:06:20 PM »
So...the Last Days thing could become the self-fulfillng-prophesy to end all self -fulfilling prophesies? Literally.

Yes. The irony
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline odeon

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #121 on: November 16, 2016, 01:19:05 PM »
....Then i checked out Pence.  :zombiefuck:

Yep, he's scary.  :lol1:

He is an angel when compared to Donald.
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Offline Pyraxis

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #122 on: November 16, 2016, 09:01:07 PM »
How so? Trump is a scumbag con artist but at least he's not after gays and women with the same moral furor.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #123 on: November 17, 2016, 01:14:13 AM »
How so? Trump is a scumbag con artist but at least he's not after gays and women with the same moral furor.

It is my impression that Trump picks a group because of no actual conviction but because it suits his purposes. It's debatable if that's worse than doing it because of some misguided moral conviction, but I think so. It means that nobody is safe.

Both are deplorable human beings.
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Offline Walkie

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #124 on: November 17, 2016, 05:24:29 AM »
How so? Trump is a scumbag con artist but at least he's not after gays and women with the same moral furor.

It is my impression that Trump picks a group because of no actual conviction but because it suits his purposes. It's debatable if that's worse than doing it because of some misguided moral conviction, but I think so. It means that nobody is safe.

Both are deplorable human beings.

Ahh, I totally get you now.

 :plus: to Pyraxis for asking the right question.

This would also explain why you keep defending  Islam , I think.  You buy the "moral conviction" side of it.

But what if the moral fervour is all about ego-defence , at basis? For most  people, most of the time , that's sadly true, I believe. That's how come you can get savage ironies like pro-life campaigners gunning people down. The irony doesn't even  occur to a moral crusader.

I picked an extreme example, but if you keep your eyes open , you can see people hurting other people with their moral stances all the time,; and also underminuing the causes they purportly support. If the object of the game is to demonstrate one's  moral superiority, then there's zero incentive to think things through, or to develop  any actual empathy.

Personally, I don't think anybody's safe from a moral crusader.  At least the average self-motivated cynic is more honest,  not only with the rest of us, but -importantly- himself.

Not that Trump is an average anything. I'm not defending Trump here, just shooting you down...I hope.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 05:35:11 AM by Walkie »

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #125 on: November 17, 2016, 06:57:37 AM »
I think Odeon is right when he says implies that Trump is serious and convicted about the Presidency.

I do not think it is a con or a scam or mere ego stroking.

What that does not say is how well he will do. I am optimistic but I truly have no idea. I think that he is someone who now has a lot of power to make change. He has some quite reasonable concerns and some good ideas. BUT does he have the goods to formulate these things into any coherent plan, can he execute them properly and in areas requiring an amount of political maneuvering and delicacy, is he going to have the good (regardless of whether his intent is good or bad).

I honestly think that Pence is certainly more hardline. IF Trump were to be assassinated or to die mid term, then I would be a little more concerned with America.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Walkie

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #126 on: November 17, 2016, 07:49:58 AM »
I think Odeon is right when he says implies that Trump is serious and convicted about the Presidency.

I do not think it is a con or a scam or mere ego stroking.



just to be clarify (This has got so convoluted, I'm not sure who failed to follow whom) I read Odeon as saying that Pence's moral convvictions make Pence  a bertter (or at least less danfgerous) man than Trump. 

In any case, that's what I was disagreeing with. The harder people bang on "moral" drums, the less inclined I am to trust them in positions of power, , never mind how sincere they might believe themselves to be. It might be big of Odeon to resist discriminating against Pence on the basis  that it's the wrong moral drum (from Odeon's own POV) , but  that doesn't make Odeon right.

To rephrase my own point: there's a huge, very swampy grey area between moral conviction and egotism ; and all too easy for people to get sucked down into that area and lose sight of every perspective except for their own covicttion that they are persionally "doing the right thing". They can harm even their their own cause, because  it comes to be  all about Cause, not effect. That's what makes the moralists (such as Pence) dangerous.

Trump wouldn;'t be dangerous in that exact same way as Pence, because , inasmuch as Trump is serving his ego: well, Trump's  ego is big enough and in-you-face enough that not even Trump can avoid noticing the thing. I wouldn't necessarily conclude that Trump's less dangerous though, Just aruguing with Odeon's logic (or what I think to be Odeon's logic )

« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 07:51:32 AM by Walkie »

Offline odeon

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #127 on: November 17, 2016, 09:40:48 AM »
Pence's twisted morals do not make him a better person, they make him a bit more predictable one. I'm very much against what he stands for.

Trump, on the other hand, lacks that moral compass, however twisted, and is merely guided by populism and ignorance, making him a lot more dangerous.

And Walkie--I defend Islam because few others seem to. I believe in freedom of religion. I believe they have the same right to believe in whatever they want as do the rest of us. I believe the idea that blaming millions of people for the crimes of a group of fanatics is preposterous. A lot of bad things have been done in the name of religion, be it Christianity, Islam or something else, but I would blame the Muslims for ISIS as little as I would blame the medieval peasants for the Crusaders.

As for believing, I don't. I think this is it, it's what we get. When we are gone, we are gone for good.

/steps down from the soapbox
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Offline Icequeen

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #128 on: November 17, 2016, 11:11:20 AM »
Pence, even though twisted as fuck, still knows there are rules and limits, and how to conduct himself in "polite society".

Trump is a narcissist and doesn't give a damn...it's all about him.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #129 on: November 17, 2016, 02:02:11 PM »
I think Odeon is right when he says implies that Trump is serious and convicted about the Presidency.

I do not think it is a con or a scam or mere ego stroking.



just to be clarify (This has got so convoluted, I'm not sure who failed to follow whom) I read Odeon as saying that Pence's moral convvictions make Pence  a bertter (or at least less danfgerous) man than Trump. 

In any case, that's what I was disagreeing with. The harder people bang on "moral" drums, the less inclined I am to trust them in positions of power, , never mind how sincere they might believe themselves to be. It might be big of Odeon to resist discriminating against Pence on the basis  that it's the wrong moral drum (from Odeon's own POV) , but  that doesn't make Odeon right.

To rephrase my own point: there's a huge, very swampy grey area between moral conviction and egotism ; and all too easy for people to get sucked down into that area and lose sight of every perspective except for their own covicttion that they are persionally "doing the right thing". They can harm even their their own cause, because  it comes to be  all about Cause, not effect. That's what makes the moralists (such as Pence) dangerous.

Trump wouldn;'t be dangerous in that exact same way as Pence, because , inasmuch as Trump is serving his ego: well, Trump's  ego is big enough and in-you-face enough that not even Trump can avoid noticing the thing. I wouldn't necessarily conclude that Trump's less dangerous though, Just aruguing with Odeon's logic (or what I think to be Odeon's logic )

Yes my main reason for agreeing with Odeon on something is because it has been the only agreeable thought I have seen him post in about a year,  and I wanted to give credit where it was due.

The three questions around this are:

What are the things that Trump/Pence wants?
Iff he tries to get that policy through, What will that policy's end form look like in practical terms?
Wil it be good, bad or indifferent?
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Walkie

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #130 on: November 17, 2016, 02:28:04 PM »

And Walkie--I defend Islam because few others seem to. I believe in freedom of religion. I believe they have the same right to believe in whatever they want as do the rest of us. I believe the idea that blaming millions of people for the crimes of a group of fanatics is preposterous. A lot of bad things have been done in the name of religion, be it Christianity, Islam or something else, but I would blame the Muslims for ISIS as little as I would blame the medieval peasants for the Crusaders.


/steps down from the soapbox
coul;dn't resist re-inflaming the old debate. but it's walkie-be-good-day, so i've started a new thread for that :angel:

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #131 on: November 17, 2016, 04:08:33 PM »

And Walkie--I defend Islam because few others seem to. I believe in freedom of religion. I believe they have the same right to believe in whatever they want as do the rest of us. I believe the idea that blaming millions of people for the crimes of a group of fanatics is preposterous. A lot of bad things have been done in the name of religion, be it Christianity, Islam or something else, but I would blame the Muslims for ISIS as little as I would blame the medieval peasants for the Crusaders.


/steps down from the soapbox
coul;dn't resist re-inflaming the old debate. but it's walkie-be-good-day, so i've started a new thread for that :angel:

Oh I see the news thread
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 04:15:52 PM by Al Swearengen »
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Pyraxis

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #132 on: November 17, 2016, 10:17:19 PM »
What are the things that Trump/Pence wants?
Iff he tries to get that policy through, What will that policy's end form look like in practical terms?
Wil it be good, bad or indifferent?

IMO, Trump wants deregulation of the financial industry because it will allow him to become richer faster. He's not young and he's probably been chafing against regulations for decades. Now he's in a position to change that, and anyone who thinks it's going to benefit the working class are dreaming.
You'll never self-actualize the subconscious canopy of stardust with that attitude.

Offline odeon

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #133 on: November 18, 2016, 12:37:45 AM »

And Walkie--I defend Islam because few others seem to. I believe in freedom of religion. I believe they have the same right to believe in whatever they want as do the rest of us. I believe the idea that blaming millions of people for the crimes of a group of fanatics is preposterous. A lot of bad things have been done in the name of religion, be it Christianity, Islam or something else, but I would blame the Muslims for ISIS as little as I would blame the medieval peasants for the Crusaders.


/steps down from the soapbox
coul;dn't resist re-inflaming the old debate. but it's walkie-be-good-day, so i've started a new thread for that :angel:

I noticed. Don't worry, we'll derail this one with something else. :zoinks:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Could be Trump?
« Reply #134 on: November 18, 2016, 12:48:38 AM »
What are the things that Trump/Pence wants?
Iff he tries to get that policy through, What will that policy's end form look like in practical terms?
Wil it be good, bad or indifferent?

IMO, Trump wants deregulation of the financial industry because it will allow him to become richer faster. He's not young and he's probably been chafing against regulations for decades. Now he's in a position to change that, and anyone who thinks it's going to benefit the working class are dreaming.

Nope. He is taking a $1/year salary and his business will go to hos kids.. Many people are looking for secret agendas that do not exist.
Once you cut away those things and adhere to the understanding that what he is doing is not for his benefit nor for a Clintonesque graft, it will frame things better.

Wont mean end results will be necessarily better mind you. The road to Hell is paved.....
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap