Could be Trump?

[FourAceDeal]

So Trump saying that he gropes women isn't proof enough that he is a misogynist?  Being rich is not an excuse.  That acceptance of sexual violence to women only happens in your town, not mine.  Our jails are full of rich people who thought they could get away with it.   Why do you defend it?

So Trump saying that all Mexicans are rapists and all Syrians are Terrorists isn't racism?  Do you know what the word "racist" means?  How can you interpret that kind of speach in any other way?

[odeon]

They'll deny everything. They always do. It's how people like Trump get elected in the first place.

Who are you talking about? 

[Icequeen]

Trump just picked Steve Bannon as chief strategist and senior counselor.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/13/politics/donald-trump-reince-priebus-white-house-chief-of-staff/index.html

[benjimanbreeg]

Right, who the US elects doesn't affect the UK at all   

Does UK membership not affect other countries of the EU?

Haha, just stay out of our politics you cunt.  Go and sort your own country out.

Yes, but the EU controls us.  America controls us. 

[benjimanbreeg]

How come every time someone mentions Trumps talk of sexual violence to women or his overtly racist policies his supporters just want to talk about Clinton.

Let's talk about Donald.   Is using his power to get away with what is sexual assualt OK with you guys?

Do you not mind that his policies are against people based on the colour of their skin or their religion?

Let's hear your opinions on these two points, which in any other western naiton would have barred him from being on the ticket to begin with.

Why?  Because mass murder and treason is more serious than what he said on a bus 11 years ago.  You have no evidence that what he said on the bus was true. 

Anything you accuse Trump of with your identity politics horse shit, Clinton is guilty of the same and far worse. 

Probably would have, we prefer to put people up who just blow up people on color in their thousands or millions or starve people of color in their millions.   

[benjimanbreeg]

So Trump saying that he gropes women isn't proof enough that he is a misogynist?  Being rich is not an excuse.  That acceptance of sexual violence to women only happens in your town, not mine.  Our jails are full of rich people who thought they could get away with it.   Why do you defend it?

So Trump saying that all Mexicans are rapists and all Syrians are Terrorists isn't racism?  Do you know what the word "racist" means?  How can you interpret that kind of speach in any other way?

Look moron.  Stop spreading lies.  Trump didn't say all Mexicans are rapists and didn't say all Syrians are terrorists.  He said when you're letting "illegal" immigrants in from Mexico, some are rapists.  And with Syria, he said when the US has no idea who they are letting in, some could be terrorists.  Nothing wrong with wanting to stop illegal immigrants and unchecked 'refugees' who Clinton helped to create. 

Also with Mexican immigrants.  The Clintons enforced NAFTA, which has destroyed Mexico and lead to the flood of immigrants.  Please focus on causes and reality before you spew out your identity crap. 

[Al Swearegen]

So Trump saying that he gropes women isn't proof enough that he is a misogynist?  Being rich is not an excuse.  That acceptance of sexual violence to women only happens in your town, not mine.  Our jails are full of rich people who thought they could get away with it.   Why do you defend it?

So Trump saying that all Mexicans are rapists and all Syrians are Terrorists isn't racism?  Do you know what the word "racist" means?  How can you interpret that kind of speach in any other way?

Let's start with Mexicans.

Trump speaks elliptically. Now you can also say he speaks like a moron, and that perhaps would be almost as fair and accurate.

So did he say that all Mexicans are rapists. Only a moron would say he did (Hint, you said he did, moron).

"They're bringing drugs, They're bringing crime, They're are rapists and some I assume are good people"

Are rapists good people? No. Rapists are never good people. So obviously he is not saying all Mexicans nor even all illegal immigrants are bad people nor rapists.

So who ARE these people coming over the border that ARE rapists and not good people?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/central-america-migrants-rape_n_5806972

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_tree

Now we have the "Who are the criminals that he is talking about?" covered, who are the people sending these people over to rape and traffic gun, drugs and human beings? Who is the "they"? Mexican cartels.

So IS Trump saying all Mexicans are terrorists? No. Is it hard to figure that out? No. Are you a moron? Yes.

The thing is that Trump may or may not be racist. He has many examples on both sides of the ledger in which confirmation bias may enforce someone with biased views to think of him as very bigoted or completely not. That above effort of yours though is terrible. Your chance to show that and this example is the best example? It is almost as bad as Odeon's example of Trump supporters being horrible humans by robbing a Muslim girl only to be completely denounced by the proof she lied.

All the above example is proof of is that he speaks like an idiot sometimes and needs to stick with a teleprompter.

"So Trump saying that he gropes women isn't proof enough that he is a misogynist? "

No, it is not enough. This is locker room talk. If we were to have all our diaries or words we have said in confidence to our friends recorded and exposed to our relatives and the public at large, we would ALL be mortified and humiliated. Because time to time in confidence we will say really really dumb shit.

Acting like we are somehow above this is pathetic. Yes he was crass. No, I do not think he goes up and grabs women on the pussy. Even on a surface level he is saying that he can get away with this because he is a celebrity and famous. He is talking about the culture of fame and what famous people can get away with. Horny star struck women who are so besotted by famous men that they will let this objects of their affection do anything including grabbing them on the pussy.

Now "They let you do anything. Grab them on the pussy" does not magically translate to "They let you do anything. They let me do anything and this includes me grabbing them on the pussy. I grab as many women on the pussy as I can. My tally for this week is 19 but I am thinking I can top that by the end of the week."

So on a surface reading, as crass as he was, no foul. Celebrity culture is pretty known. The same could be said for rock stars and groupies. You think women throwing knickers on stage are hoping the rockstars are going to do their laundry....c'mon, get real.

I find the deeper reading much more interesting. Donald Trump is clearly richer, more famous, taller, and more powerful than the young Billy Bush. So what does he try to grandstand on? His sexual viability and attractiveness with women. THAT should tell you something. It probably will not because you are not the sharpest tool in the shed. It should tell you that he is threatened by Billy Bush in this one aspect of his character. He has nothing to prove in the other areas so he tries selling himself up. I do not think he believes anything he said, nor did Billy Bush. It was all shit talking of a 59 year old trying to tell this young man who was better looking and younger and more virile that he was a huge stud.

No it was not misogynistic nor outrageous. It was pure unadulterated cringe. It was embarrassing in the same way that someone wetting themselves after getting too drunk may be embarrassing to observers. It was middle life crisis exposed.

Jails are full of rich people that thought they could get away with saying dumb shit are there? Is this truth or lie? I may not question you too much more closely as you seem happy enough with your delusions.

[Al Swearegen]

How come every time someone mentions Trumps talk of sexual violence to women or his overtly racist policies his supporters just want to talk about Clinton.

Let's talk about Donald.   Is using his power to get away with what is sexual assualt OK with you guys?

Do you not mind that his policies are against people based on the colour of their skin or their religion?

Let's hear your opinions on these two points, which in any other western naiton would have barred him from being on the ticket to begin with.

There are no policies based on colour of skin and saying this is an outright lie and you know this. You are a liar FourAceDeal.

Tell me the sexual violence against women (not that he has been accused of - lots of people are wrongly accused) that he has been proven to have been a part of.

You ARE going to do that right? You are not going to talk of facts you do not have at your disposal and simply throw around false allegations.

Sexual violence. Take the stage with your proof (beyond allegations).

No?

As for religion? Yes he has no way of disassociating Muslims from Muslim radical extremists. Not all Muslims are Muslim radical Extremists BUT all Muslim radical Extremists are Muslims. He wants to stop Muslim radical extremists. Difficult position as many people from that area of the world, due to failed states and infrastructure failing, are not able to be vetted.

At least THAT was not a lie. That is something

Breath of fresh air here. Thanks, Al.

I'd be seriously stunned to find that Trump isn't a racist , etc,  but the kind of drums his detractors are banging on to"prove"  their point  are only unconvincing me, TBH.

The kind of view you stated above really needs to be stated explicitly. To suppress a whole side of that argument would only have the effect of inflaming prejudice , not putting it to bed. And leaving everybody feeling uneasy.  So, kudos to Trump for having the balls to state it, and kudos to America for letting him.

I find Trump bloody scarey, nonetheless. He talks one heckova lot of crap, but in some areas, he's also cutting through the crap.  Heck , we  (the world , that is) might even end up having  an intelligent discussion  re.  Islam, not the usual, absurdly polarised,  childish  slanging match .

The problem is two fold Liberals are keen to make base assumptions. If it is against Muslims it is xenophobic, islamophobic, racist and whatever. THAT is the narrative. They are not up for listening as we have seen with Odeon. Nothing I said was ever bigoted but he threw that label my way.

When zealous ideology hits facts, facts do not stand a chance.

See I can and have proven exactly what I wrote there and without saying for one moment that I dislike Muslims or that I would not like Muslim people who are NOT Muslim radical extremists to find a place to make their home and grow up to lead good lives. Of course I want that BUT like the Australian solution to unvetted people coming to our shores

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/boat-people-banned-from-australia-for-life/news-story/6b38998db0fed43e6d4fcecba3b166c4

Unvetted is dangerous and it is a national security and border security issue.

If we take refugees it has to be on our terms knowing who they are, where they are from, and how many to take. You do not just rock up and say "Now take me". That is not safe for Australia.

Same applies to America.

Liberals like Odeon and likely this Four Square guy cannot compute this concept without seeing racism/islamophobia, xenophobia and the like. It just does not compute for them.

[FourAceDeal]

"So Trump saying that he gropes women isn't proof enough that he is a misogynist? "

No, it is not enough. This is locker room talk.

Now we get to the point I've made at least three times here already.  Try and keep up.  I'll not use any long words to make it easy for you...

Your society seems to be tolerant of talk of sexual violence.  A lot more tolerant than European culture.  Over here this is not locker room talk.  Talking about groping and grabbing women is by it's very nature misogynistic.  Look at it's definition in the dictionary.

As we both speak the same language I can only assume that it is our attitudes that are different.  I am intollerant of people glorifying sexual violence towards women, you must be tolerant of it. 

So if you think it's OK to physically assualt women then just say so.  Stand by your convictions.

Personally I think it's wrong.   But that's just fucking me, ain't it?

[FourAceDeal]

How come every time someone mentions Trumps talk of sexual violence to women or his overtly racist policies his supporters just want to talk about Clinton.

Let's talk about Donald.   Is using his power to get away with what is sexual assualt OK with you guys?

Do you not mind that his policies are against people based on the colour of their skin or their religion?

Let's hear your opinions on these two points, which in any other western naiton would have barred him from being on the ticket to begin with.

Why?  Because mass murder and treason is more serious than what he said on a bus 11 years ago.  You have no evidence that what he said on the bus was true. 

Anything you accuse Trump of with your identity politics horse shit, Clinton is guilty of the same and far worse. 

Probably would have, we prefer to put people up who just blow up people on color in their thousands or millions or starve people of color in their millions.   

Benji...

Not once one this forum have I said I prefer Clinton.  i've said it often enough that I thought the problem was that you being fed two equally distasteful things to vote for.  If you think I support Clinton then this is something that has occured in your own head with no help from me.

I appear to have been enrtolled into an arguement with the Breitbart "intelligencia".  And to be honest, it's like being savaged by a Cocker Spaniel.

[benjimanbreeg]

How come every time someone mentions Trumps talk of sexual violence to women or his overtly racist policies his supporters just want to talk about Clinton.

Let's talk about Donald.   Is using his power to get away with what is sexual assualt OK with you guys?

Do you not mind that his policies are against people based on the colour of their skin or their religion?

Let's hear your opinions on these two points, which in any other western naiton would have barred him from being on the ticket to begin with.

Why?  Because mass murder and treason is more serious than what he said on a bus 11 years ago.  You have no evidence that what he said on the bus was true. 

Anything you accuse Trump of with your identity politics horse shit, Clinton is guilty of the same and far worse. 

Probably would have, we prefer to put people up who just blow up people on color in their thousands or millions or starve people of color in their millions.   

Benji...

Not once one this forum have I said I prefer Clinton.  i've said it often enough that I thought the problem was that you being fed two equally distasteful things to vote for.  If you think I support Clinton then this is something that has occured in your own head with no help from me.

I appear to have been enrtolled into an arguement with the Breitbart "intelligencia".  And to be honest, it's like being savaged by a Cocker Spaniel.

I've only seen you attack Trump, and with lies and distortions pushed out by the Clinton team and the media. 

Like I've said to others, educate yourself on the subject and it might help you put things in perspective. 

[FourAceDeal]

Jails are full of rich people that thought they could get away with saying dumb shit are there? Is this truth or lie? I may not question you too much more closely as you seem happy enough with your delusions.

Al.  You've obviously not followed UK news too closely over the last 4 years.  There's been several massive investigations into sexual assaults by the rich and famous.  I am not exagerating.  Rich?  On TV?  Like to grab women?  Get the fuck inside for 5 years.  That's how it rolls over here.  Ask any of the UK poster here or look up Operation Yew Tree (one of several investigations) and see where it leads you.

People do not talk like Trump in our society.  I shit you not.  In this country that is only banter if the locker room is inside a jail for sex offenders.

The fact that you are so dismissive of it speaks volumes about how you live compared to the UK.

[FourAceDeal]

How come every time someone mentions Trumps talk of sexual violence to women or his overtly racist policies his supporters just want to talk about Clinton.

Let's talk about Donald.   Is using his power to get away with what is sexual assualt OK with you guys?

Do you not mind that his policies are against people based on the colour of their skin or their religion?

Let's hear your opinions on these two points, which in any other western naiton would have barred him from being on the ticket to begin with.

Why?  Because mass murder and treason is more serious than what he said on a bus 11 years ago.  You have no evidence that what he said on the bus was true. 

Anything you accuse Trump of with your identity politics horse shit, Clinton is guilty of the same and far worse. 

Probably would have, we prefer to put people up who just blow up people on color in their thousands or millions or starve people of color in their millions.   

Benji...

Not once one this forum have I said I prefer Clinton.  i've said it often enough that I thought the problem was that you being fed two equally distasteful things to vote for.  If you think I support Clinton then this is something that has occured in your own head with no help from me.

I appear to have been enrtolled into an arguement with the Breitbart "intelligencia".  And to be honest, it's like being savaged by a Cocker Spaniel.

I've only seen you attack Trump, and with lies and distortions pushed out by the Clinton team and the media. 

Like I've said to others, educate yourself on the subject and it might help you put things in perspective.

You see what you want to see.  I don't think you like to be challenged too much.

[Jack]

Right, who the US elects doesn't affect the UK at all   

Does UK membership not affect other countries of the EU?

Haha, just stay out of our politics you cunt.  Go and sort your own country out.

Yes, but the EU controls us.  America controls us.

There's a lot of symbiosis in the world which can be misrepresented as control, and this isn't the first time thinking the UK's powerful voice as a world leader and policy maker is being downplayed.

[Al Swearegen]

"So Trump saying that he gropes women isn't proof enough that he is a misogynist? "

No, it is not enough. This is locker room talk.

Now we get to the point I've made at least three times here already.  Try and keep up.  I'll not use any long words to make it easy for you...

Your society seems to be tolerant of talk of sexual violence.  A lot more tolerant than European culture.  Over here this is not locker room talk.  Talking about groping and grabbing women is by it's very nature misogynistic.  Look at it's definition in the dictionary.

As we both speak the same language I can only assume that it is our attitudes that are different.  I am intollerant of people glorifying sexual violence towards women, you must be tolerant of it. 

So if you think it's OK to physically assualt women then just say so.  Stand by your convictions.

Personally I think it's wrong.   But that's just fucking me, ain't it?

When you make love to your wife that is rape, when you engage in foreplay that is sexual violence.

You think this is an abhorrent and disingenuous thing to say? Me too. Here is why. Both of these two instances, there is consent. You let each other engage in sexual activities with each other.

Are you with me so far? I am writing English and I hope I am breaking it down enough for you to follow.

Now if Trump says "they will let you do anything....grab them by the pussy." If you grab your wife by the pussy, this would not be sexual violence because she let's you. I feel terrible having to spell this out for you. If THEY let him and SHE lets you, its NOT sexual violence for exactly the same reason and only a fool cannot grasp this. One does NOT have to agree with violence towards women to not read sexual violence into what Trump said.

Furthermore as I have posted elsewhere, it was a bullshit narrative anyhow. It was a case of a middle aged man being a little threatened by a younger man and trying to stroke his ego and overcompensate for very obvious insecurities.

So now YOU back your claims as "So if you think it's OK to physically assault women then just say so.  Stand by your convictions." And I expect no being slimy or trying to wheedle out of hard the claims. No, What I said was NOT hard to interpret.

As to whether I am personally offended by what Trump said or that he may say the word pussy to another man in confidence and in private is a big NO. I think it is cringeworthy. Misogynistic, no. Crass? Sure.