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Author Topic: Tulsa Shooting ~ Justified or Unjustified?  (Read 444 times)

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Offline Graelwyn

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Tulsa Shooting ~ Justified or Unjustified?
« on: September 21, 2016, 06:38:33 PM »
I have been following this story since it first emerged, and have read all that I can find on it.
No matter what spin is given, I find it very hard to find any justification for the cop having shot this guy, given he had broken down in the middle of the road, and approached the cops first, when they were on their way to an unrelated incident.
I don't get why a guy, who has broken down, would immediately be treated as a suspect and told to put his hands in the air  ???
I also find it difficult to believe anyone is using PCP still in this day and age, and even so, having one vial of that, which was unknown at the time of the shooting, hardly justified a man's death.
It is true, he had previous convictions, but similarly, these were not known of at the time of the shooting.
It is claimed he was reaching into his pockets, but given cops usually ask for ID, who is to say he was not trying to get that out?
A guy in a police copter, is heard saying he looks like a bad dude... well, I mean, seriously? He must be bad because he is black and big built?
I think some of these cops are getting too trigger happy, personally, and are reaching for their weapon as a first option, rather than a last resort.

Not really looking for a big debate, but I am curious what the rest of you think of this, what your views are and why?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/20/us/oklahoma-tulsa-police-shooting/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/terence-crutcher-shooting-death-us-policewoman-claims-unarmed-black-man-putting-hands-in-car-a7320316.html

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Tulsa Shooting ~ Justified or Unjustified?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2016, 07:13:09 PM »
I also find it difficult to believe anyone is using PCP still in this day and age, and even so, having one vial of that, which was unknown at the time of the shooting, hardly justified a man's death.

The responding cops noticed odd behavior and suspected he might be on PCP even before they found it.

 
Quote
It is true, he had previous convictions, but similarly, these were not known of at the time of the shooting.


Actually they were known because the cops ran his license plate number and the criminal past of the registered owner came up. That's what caused the cops to handle him with extra caution.


Quote
It is claimed he was reaching into his pockets, but given cops usually ask for ID, who is to say he was not trying to get that out?
A guy in a police copter, is heard saying he looks like a bad dude... well, I mean, seriously? He must be bad because he is black and big built?
I think some of these cops are getting too trigger happy, personally, and are reaching for their weapon as a first option, rather than a last resort.

Not really looking for a big debate, but I am curious what the rest of you think of this, what your views are and why?

I don't have much of an opinion at this point. I want to see the rest of the facts come out.


Offline Graelwyn

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Re: Tulsa Shooting ~ Justified or Unjustified?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2016, 07:36:52 PM »
I also find it difficult to believe anyone is using PCP still in this day and age, and even so, having one vial of that, which was unknown at the time of the shooting, hardly justified a man's death.

The responding cops noticed odd behavior and suspected he might be on PCP even before they found it.

 
Quote
It is true, he had previous convictions, but similarly, these were not known of at the time of the shooting.


Actually they were known because the cops ran his license plate number and the criminal past of the registered owner came up. That's what caused the cops to handle him with extra caution.


Quote
It is claimed he was reaching into his pockets, but given cops usually ask for ID, who is to say he was not trying to get that out?
A guy in a police copter, is heard saying he looks like a bad dude... well, I mean, seriously? He must be bad because he is black and big built?
I think some of these cops are getting too trigger happy, personally, and are reaching for their weapon as a first option, rather than a last resort.

Not really looking for a big debate, but I am curious what the rest of you think of this, what your views are and why?

I don't have much of an opinion at this point. I want to see the rest of the facts come out.

Interesting. One of the sites I looked on said the cops didn't know his criminal history at the time of the shooting, though logically, I suppose, the first thing they probably do is run a license plate check. I still think even if he was under the influence of PCP (and we only have the cops' word on this and to be honest, I don't have a lot of trust in their word as there have been many examples of police corruption documented in the past, if memory serves me right), shooting him was unjustified, when the other cop reached for his Taser. As you said, not all the facts are out... I presume they will test for drugs in his system as part of the post mortem.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Tulsa Shooting ~ Justified or Unjustified?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2016, 04:40:51 AM »
I have a very poo opinion of police generally and my understanding is that they are even worse in the US than here. The crisis of 9/11 created a fear state. They did things like the freedom limiting Patriot Act and try to push through other Authoritarian legislation. They also put police on heightened alert because of the attacks and to treat everyone as a potential threat. They also create an environment by which police making mistakes in the line of duty because of this fear factor are given more freedom and less accountability for mistakes made.

The pushback was inevitable. It cannot be ratcheted up to 10/10 threat level for years on end without something giving.
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Offline Lestat

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Re: Tulsa Shooting ~ Justified or Unjustified?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2016, 03:58:24 PM »
PCP and the relatives of the family do NOT make anybody superhuman. They do however anaesthetize and render the subject rather insensible to pain, thus they may struggle harder if assaulted, but they would in no sense be superhuman and the mythology about the drug is a bunch of utter claptrap of the most inane and profligate degree.

Whilst PCP itself has thus far not been an experience I have had, I have had various extremely close mimics of it. 4-methoxy-PCP (methoxy on the phenyl ring, substitution on cyclohexyl kills activity dramatically.) substitution position of a methoxy group moved to the 3-position (more stimulating, lowers seizure threshold, overdoses can induce one, and sufficient doses to produce desirable effects without overreaching the bounds of its safety margin are in my opinion perhaps less favourable than the 4-MeO isomer.)

3-hydroxyl is outstanding. As is the 2-oxo-3-methoxy-eticyclidone analog (methoxetamine, in the parlance of the street, and for short), being the analog replacing the piperidine ring with a methyl and adding a that oxygen in the 2-position makes it a kind of hybrid, of the shorter acting (due to the greater polarity to an extent, and acting as a kind of metabolic handle I believe should occur, a site of metabolic attack facilitating more rapid excretion and thus less residence time in the bladder than ketamine (the metabolite of K, norketamine can cause a severe ulcerative cystitis in those who engage in severe habits. Having it attacked on the ring will decrease the quantity converted to norketamine, or rather, the corresponding metabolite, presumably either changed to the hydroxyl and conjugated with sulfate, glutathione et cetera.)

Deschloroketamine being somewhat weaker. But of similar qualities.

They incoordinate, although ketamine, methoxetamine, deschloroketamine inebriate in a similar way to the phencyclidine (PCP) resembling them also are often possessed of a greater or lesser degree of potency, in addition to antagonist effects at NMDA glutamate receptors, which is the primary mechanism responsible for the sedative, anaesthetic, anxiolytic, anti-addiction (in many respects but its own, and I doubt to alcohol, although this is possible to likely, although I have never given myself an ethanol physical dependency in order to test it, it would be too dangerous and utterly unpleasant, both in the aquisition of the dependency, its temporary maintainance and its removal, but NMDA antagonists dramatically lessen and help block further aquisition of tolerance and physical dependency in response to opioid withdrawal from Mu-opioid receptor agonists, such as heroin, morphine, oxy, hydrocodone, codeine, et cetera. they also alleviate physical withdrawal from the drug class, and they help block aquisition of tolerance to psychostimulants. Not sure about dopamine reuptake inhibitor stimulants such as methylphenidate/ritalin or triple reuptake inhibitors. Never done a serious controlle study and took numbers.  And I am not entirely sure I could provoke a psychological stimulant addiction if I tried. There are some quite powerful dopamine transporter blockers in the family though, making them primarily stimulant. Which is why those arylcyclohexylamine dissociatives closest to PCP (the benzothiophene ring structure in place of the phenyl ring (there doesn't seem much steric tolerance in the NMDA receptor PCP binding site for this class of drug, wherever in the NMDA receptor ion channel (its a ligand and partially voltage gated receptor type, at resting potential its blocked weakly by the magnesium cation that occupies it at resting potential, when activate at need by glutamate or aspartate (aspartate binds at the orthosteric, glutamate binding site, although appears to function as a partial competitive agonist)


Whether or not he WAS on the stuff it doesn't make a fucking bit of difference. If the guy was a dick, he'd be a dick if he got pissed on lager. All it would take is for him to get stressed or over the top enough to unleash his inner dick, with or without additional help. Hell an average two legged meatsack can do that to another if they so decide if they possess the vestiges of both will to do so an the intellect to realize how the deed were to be performed in the material sense.
Beyond the pale. Way, way beyond the pale.

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