Brexit omelette with ham and cheese.

[Al Swearegen]

That creepy message you forwarded from him was proof enough, Al. Should I say sorry to *him* after he posted that shit on Youtube and I had the police pay him a visit to make him stop?

The police certainly didn't think I was overreacting. They never suggested I should apologise, either.

Is it your opinion in general that the victim should apologise if somebody you know from the internet said that the perpetrator really has changed?

I do not know why you are seeking out my opinion on the matter. Certainly you dismiss everything I say and can't imagine why you'd humour me.

 I think that many years ago Pea was upset with you and your treatment of a friend of his.
His reaction was something I understand but do not agree with. (though from what I understand, he did not call you a paedophile but rather some other guy Chris Gillon did...apparently.  Not a big point of contention in the scheme of things, but I understand it).

As for who the victim in this is, there is a rather large elephant in the room if we are to talk about victims. Two of them intimately involved with you. Neither are you.

This is kind of my point with things. Yes Pea behaved badly and sure I have never said police turning up was not warranted. But don't for a moment say you were a victim or that this situation came out of nowhere.

There was a good reason Pea was angry  What was that reason?
Who was that friend of Pea's that was upset, that prompted this situation with you and he?
What did YOU do to make that friend of his upset?
Who are the ACTUAL victims I refer to?

Take some fucking responsibility Odeon. Have a bit of decency and accountability for your poor choices and how that affects things and people around you..

I have, and you are wrong. The video was posted in 2012 and quite some time after Pea sought me out to reconcile our differences. At that point, I thought what was past was past because that was what *he* said. Then came the videos.

So don't you try to tell me who is guilty of what here. I know what happened, Pea knows what happened, and he readily admitted it when confronted by the police. You, on the other hand, do not. You don't have the faintest idea. You, as the simple troll you are, just want to fuel the flames.

Bullshit Odeon.
 
You saying you are the victim is evidence of this. As I say there WERE at least two victims and neither of them are You. Neither are Pea either.

I am not going to name names but I am going to say that when shit happens you never acknowledge your part in things. It becomes "you were behaving fine" and were the "good guy" in the situation or the innocent bystander and then boom! bad stuff happened.

Life is not that easy. You believe things were reconciled? In your mind maybe. You believe you "dealt" with things appropriately in all situations? You believe past was past and should be moved on?

Your wants do not dictate other people's wants. Their experience of something is not your experience. Injuries that YOU caused to the victims in this situation were not something that you felt and thus YOUR ability to say "Its all better" is not something that extenuates outside of yourself.

Theory of mind stuff and YES I battle with it too. You HAVE to take accountability when you do and say stuff there is a consequence and it can permeate the knock on effect may even be a shitty video sent by an angry member or  the ruination of a friendship or a heartbreak or a long lasting feud. As long as you are always ready to deny your accountability and consequence (direct or not ) in the effects of your actions, bad shit will happen. I mean lying, misrepresentation and showing hypocrisy will not help either, but taking no responsibility is a problem.

Reconciling and resolving things is never a perfect washing of hands but it may leave a scar rather than a perpetually festering wound.

[odeon]

That creepy message you forwarded from him was proof enough, Al. Should I say sorry to *him* after he posted that shit on Youtube and I had the police pay him a visit to make him stop?

The police certainly didn't think I was overreacting. They never suggested I should apologise, either.

Is it your opinion in general that the victim should apologise if somebody you know from the internet said that the perpetrator really has changed?

I do not know why you are seeking out my opinion on the matter. Certainly you dismiss everything I say and can't imagine why you'd humour me.

 I think that many years ago Pea was upset with you and your treatment of a friend of his.
His reaction was something I understand but do not agree with. (though from what I understand, he did not call you a paedophile but rather some other guy Chris Gillon did...apparently.  Not a big point of contention in the scheme of things, but I understand it).

As for who the victim in this is, there is a rather large elephant in the room if we are to talk about victims. Two of them intimately involved with you. Neither are you.

This is kind of my point with things. Yes Pea behaved badly and sure I have never said police turning up was not warranted. But don't for a moment say you were a victim or that this situation came out of nowhere.

There was a good reason Pea was angry  What was that reason?
Who was that friend of Pea's that was upset, that prompted this situation with you and he?
What did YOU do to make that friend of his upset?
Who are the ACTUAL victims I refer to?

Take some fucking responsibility Odeon. Have a bit of decency and accountability for your poor choices and how that affects things and people around you..

I have, and you are wrong. The video was posted in 2012 and quite some time after Pea sought me out to reconcile our differences. At that point, I thought what was past was past because that was what *he* said. Then came the videos.

So don't you try to tell me who is guilty of what here. I know what happened, Pea knows what happened, and he readily admitted it when confronted by the police. You, on the other hand, do not. You don't have the faintest idea. You, as the simple troll you are, just want to fuel the flames.

Bullshit Odeon.
 
You saying you are the victim is evidence of this. As I say there WERE at least two victims and neither of them are You. Neither are Pea either.

I am not going to name names but I am going to say that when shit happens you never acknowledge your part in things. It becomes "you were behaving fine" and were the "good guy" in the situation or the innocent bystander and then boom! bad stuff happened.

Life is not that easy. You believe things were reconciled? In your mind maybe. You believe you "dealt" with things appropriately in all situations? You believe past was past and should be moved on?

Your wants do not dictate other people's wants. Their experience of something is not your experience. Injuries that YOU caused to the victims in this situation were not something that you felt and thus YOUR ability to say "Its all better" is not something that extenuates outside of yourself.

Theory of mind stuff and YES I battle with it too. You HAVE to take accountability when you do and say stuff there is a consequence and it can permeate the knock on effect may even be a shitty video sent by an angry member or  the ruination of a friendship or a heartbreak or a long lasting feud. As long as you are always ready to deny your accountability and consequence (direct or not ) in the effects of your actions, bad shit will happen. I mean lying, misrepresentation and showing hypocrisy will not help either, but taking no responsibility is a problem.

Reconciling and resolving things is never a perfect washing of hands but it may leave a scar rather than a perpetually festering wound.

So in your world, Pea posting the videos after stating that things were OK between him and me is just as it should be? It explains a lot about both him and you. It also explains why he will never be a member here again.

[rock hound]

The comfort level has been restored...get over it!   Jesus FUCKING Christ.  just get over it already!   

[Al Swearegen]

That creepy message you forwarded from him was proof enough, Al. Should I say sorry to *him* after he posted that shit on Youtube and I had the police pay him a visit to make him stop?

The police certainly didn't think I was overreacting. They never suggested I should apologise, either.

Is it your opinion in general that the victim should apologise if somebody you know from the internet said that the perpetrator really has changed?

I do not know why you are seeking out my opinion on the matter. Certainly you dismiss everything I say and can't imagine why you'd humour me.

 I think that many years ago Pea was upset with you and your treatment of a friend of his.
His reaction was something I understand but do not agree with. (though from what I understand, he did not call you a paedophile but rather some other guy Chris Gillon did...apparently.  Not a big point of contention in the scheme of things, but I understand it).

As for who the victim in this is, there is a rather large elephant in the room if we are to talk about victims. Two of them intimately involved with you. Neither are you.

This is kind of my point with things. Yes Pea behaved badly and sure I have never said police turning up was not warranted. But don't for a moment say you were a victim or that this situation came out of nowhere.

There was a good reason Pea was angry  What was that reason?
Who was that friend of Pea's that was upset, that prompted this situation with you and he?
What did YOU do to make that friend of his upset?
Who are the ACTUAL victims I refer to?

Take some fucking responsibility Odeon. Have a bit of decency and accountability for your poor choices and how that affects things and people around you..

I have, and you are wrong. The video was posted in 2012 and quite some time after Pea sought me out to reconcile our differences. At that point, I thought what was past was past because that was what *he* said. Then came the videos.

So don't you try to tell me who is guilty of what here. I know what happened, Pea knows what happened, and he readily admitted it when confronted by the police. You, on the other hand, do not. You don't have the faintest idea. You, as the simple troll you are, just want to fuel the flames.

Bullshit Odeon.
 
You saying you are the victim is evidence of this. As I say there WERE at least two victims and neither of them are You. Neither are Pea either.

I am not going to name names but I am going to say that when shit happens you never acknowledge your part in things. It becomes "you were behaving fine" and were the "good guy" in the situation or the innocent bystander and then boom! bad stuff happened.

Life is not that easy. You believe things were reconciled? In your mind maybe. You believe you "dealt" with things appropriately in all situations? You believe past was past and should be moved on?

Your wants do not dictate other people's wants. Their experience of something is not your experience. Injuries that YOU caused to the victims in this situation were not something that you felt and thus YOUR ability to say "Its all better" is not something that extenuates outside of yourself.

Theory of mind stuff and YES I battle with it too. You HAVE to take accountability when you do and say stuff there is a consequence and it can permeate the knock on effect may even be a shitty video sent by an angry member or  the ruination of a friendship or a heartbreak or a long lasting feud. As long as you are always ready to deny your accountability and consequence (direct or not ) in the effects of your actions, bad shit will happen. I mean lying, misrepresentation and showing hypocrisy will not help either, but taking no responsibility is a problem.

Reconciling and resolving things is never a perfect washing of hands but it may leave a scar rather than a perpetually festering wound.

So in your world, Pea posting the videos after stating that things were OK between him and me is just as it should be? It explains a lot about both him and you. It also explains why he will never be a member here again.

Only an idiot would HONESTLY say that was what I was saying. Is that what you are Odeon? It is pretty clear what I was saying.

If you move on it does not mean others do. If you have caused an issue but are prepared to wash your hands of it, it does not follow that everyone is involved should too. You do not set the appropriate response here.

Again I NEVER and I will repeat this because your comprehension is off NEVER defended Pea for sending the video. I think it was bad form. I understand why he did and understand what was in his heart. I do not see him as a black-hearted villain in the piece but it was ill-advised and making a bad situation worse. But the key here is it was a bad situation. The originator of the situation was YOU.

When crap like the video or the fallout on the forum happens, you are not unrelated to the outcomes or consequence on the basis that you mentally absolve yourself from any responsibility or accountability to it. Do you get that? At all?

In fact the fact that these happen is indicative that YOU have NOT resolved things and that your irresponsibility is key to these things happening. Now you can after the fact claim to be a victim and you can censor me or send police on Pea and deal with the next inconvenience the same way but what you ought to do is address these things. Things do not happen out of a vacuum. Learn to deal with problems of your own making and join the human race.

[rock hound]

That creepy message you forwarded from him was proof enough, Al. Should I say sorry to *him* after he posted that shit on Youtube and I had the police pay him a visit to make him stop?

The police certainly didn't think I was overreacting. They never suggested I should apologise, either.

Is it your opinion in general that the victim should apologise if somebody you know from the internet said that the perpetrator really has changed?

I do not know why you are seeking out my opinion on the matter. Certainly you dismiss everything I say and can't imagine why you'd humour me.

 I think that many years ago Pea was upset with you and your treatment of a friend of his.
His reaction was something I understand but do not agree with. (though from what I understand, he did not call you a paedophile but rather some other guy Chris Gillon did...apparently.  Not a big point of contention in the scheme of things, but I understand it).

As for who the victim in this is, there is a rather large elephant in the room if we are to talk about victims. Two of them intimately involved with you. Neither are you.

This is kind of my point with things. Yes Pea behaved badly and sure I have never said police turning up was not warranted. But don't for a moment say you were a victim or that this situation came out of nowhere.

There was a good reason Pea was angry  What was that reason?
Who was that friend of Pea's that was upset, that prompted this situation with you and he?
What did YOU do to make that friend of his upset?
Who are the ACTUAL victims I refer to?

Take some fucking responsibility Odeon. Have a bit of decency and accountability for your poor choices and how that affects things and people around you..

I have, and you are wrong. The video was posted in 2012 and quite some time after Pea sought me out to reconcile our differences. At that point, I thought what was past was past because that was what *he* said. Then came the videos.

So don't you try to tell me who is guilty of what here. I know what happened, Pea knows what happened, and he readily admitted it when confronted by the police. You, on the other hand, do not. You don't have the faintest idea. You, as the simple troll you are, just want to fuel the flames.

Bullshit Odeon.
 
You saying you are the victim is evidence of this. As I say there WERE at least two victims and neither of them are You. Neither are Pea either.

I am not going to name names but I am going to say that when shit happens you never acknowledge your part in things. It becomes "you were behaving fine" and were the "good guy" in the situation or the innocent bystander and then boom! bad stuff happened.

Life is not that easy. You believe things were reconciled? In your mind maybe. You believe you "dealt" with things appropriately in all situations? You believe past was past and should be moved on?

Your wants do not dictate other people's wants. Their experience of something is not your experience. Injuries that YOU caused to the victims in this situation were not something that you felt and thus YOUR ability to say "Its all better" is not something that extenuates outside of yourself.

Theory of mind stuff and YES I battle with it too. You HAVE to take accountability when you do and say stuff there is a consequence and it can permeate the knock on effect may even be a shitty video sent by an angry member or  the ruination of a friendship or a heartbreak or a long lasting feud. As long as you are always ready to deny your accountability and consequence (direct or not ) in the effects of your actions, bad shit will happen. I mean lying, misrepresentation and showing hypocrisy will not help either, but taking no responsibility is a problem.

Reconciling and resolving things is never a perfect washing of hands but it may leave a scar rather than a perpetually festering wound.

So in your world, Pea posting the videos after stating that things were OK between him and me is just as it should be? It explains a lot about both him and you. It also explains why he will never be a member here again.

Only an idiot would HONESTLY say that was what I was saying. Is that what you are Odeon? It is pretty clear what I was saying.

If you move on it does not mean others do. If you have caused an issue but are prepared to wash your hands of it, it does not follow that everyone is involved should too. You do not set the appropriate response here.

Again I NEVER and I will repeat this because your comprehension is off NEVER defended Pea for sending the video. I think it was bad form. I understand why he did and understand what was in his heart. I do not see him as a black-hearted villain in the piece but it was ill-advised and making a bad situation worse. But the key here is it was a bad situation. The originator of the situation was YOU.

When crap like the video or the fallout on the forum happens, you are not unrelated to the outcomes or consequence on the basis that you mentally absolve yourself from any responsibility or accountability to it. Do you get that? At all?

In fact the fact that these happen is indicative that YOU have NOT resolved things and that your irresponsibility is key to these things happening. Now you can after the fact claim to be a victim and you can censor me or send police on Pea and deal with the next inconvenience the same way but what you ought to do is address these things. Things do not happen out of a vacuum. Learn to deal with problems of your own making and join the human race.

 

[odeon]

Only an idiot would HONESTLY say that was what I was saying. Is that what you are Odeon? It is pretty clear what I was saying.

If you move on it does not mean others do. If you have caused an issue but are prepared to wash your hands of it, it does not follow that everyone is involved should too. You do not set the appropriate response here.

Again I NEVER and I will repeat this because your comprehension is off NEVER defended Pea for sending the video. I think it was bad form. I understand why he did and understand what was in his heart. I do not see him as a black-hearted villain in the piece but it was ill-advised and making a bad situation worse. But the key here is it was a bad situation. The originator of the situation was YOU.

When crap like the video or the fallout on the forum happens, you are not unrelated to the outcomes or consequence on the basis that you mentally absolve yourself from any responsibility or accountability to it. Do you get that? At all?

In fact the fact that these happen is indicative that YOU have NOT resolved things and that your irresponsibility is key to these things happening. Now you can after the fact claim to be a victim and you can censor me or send police on Pea and deal with the next inconvenience the same way but what you ought to do is address these things. Things do not happen out of a vacuum. Learn to deal with problems of your own making and join the human race.

You don't know what I have or have not done to resolve things. You have no idea. You were not involved then and you are not involved now. You don't know any of the facts. You are simply acting from butthurt and because you are pissed off at me, and so anything that will cast a shadow over me is what you will do.

But it ends now.

[Al Swearegen]

Only an idiot would HONESTLY say that was what I was saying. Is that what you are Odeon? It is pretty clear what I was saying.

If you move on it does not mean others do. If you have caused an issue but are prepared to wash your hands of it, it does not follow that everyone is involved should too. You do not set the appropriate response here.

Again I NEVER and I will repeat this because your comprehension is off NEVER defended Pea for sending the video. I think it was bad form. I understand why he did and understand what was in his heart. I do not see him as a black-hearted villain in the piece but it was ill-advised and making a bad situation worse. But the key here is it was a bad situation. The originator of the situation was YOU.

When crap like the video or the fallout on the forum happens, you are not unrelated to the outcomes or consequence on the basis that you mentally absolve yourself from any responsibility or accountability to it. Do you get that? At all?

In fact the fact that these happen is indicative that YOU have NOT resolved things and that your irresponsibility is key to these things happening. Now you can after the fact claim to be a victim and you can censor me or send police on Pea and deal with the next inconvenience the same way but what you ought to do is address these things. Things do not happen out of a vacuum. Learn to deal with problems of your own making and join the human race.

You don't know what I have or have not done to resolve things. You have no idea. You were not involved then and you are not involved now. You don't know any of the facts. You are simply acting from butthurt and because you are pissed off at me, and so anything that will cast a shadow over me is what you will do.

But it ends now.

More control and censorship.

I am not butthurt but I am on your case and have been a while.

Here is one small thing to consider. You said you had resolved things with Pea and then suddenly this video, right. Here is the small; takeaway. You did not resolve it with him, you resolved it with you. YOU felt things were resolved. He didn't. There is a difference. Like I said before, theory of mind.

[rock hound]

 

[benjimanbreeg]

Still need to work out why both these guys wanted us to stay in the EU.  But this is a must see to understand who controls the EU and how it's controlled and how politicians of countries cannot do anything to change economic policies and it's pretty much irrelevant who's elected in any country in the EU. 

Do they have a cliff-notes version of that??

I don't know.

It's great to just listen to that Greek guy though.  A politician with principles.  I listened to it in 2 sections while doing work.  Easier like that.

[Pyraxis]

You said you had resolved things with Pea and then suddenly this video, right. Here is the small; takeaway. You did not resolve it with him, you resolved it with you. YOU felt things were resolved. He didn't. There is a difference. Like I said before, theory of mind.

What do you make of Pea saying it was resolved, then? To me it looks like Pea didn't know his own mind. Or he had an opinion and changed it later, like what happened here.

[Al Swearegen]

You said you had resolved things with Pea and then suddenly this video, right. Here is the small; takeaway. You did not resolve it with him, you resolved it with you. YOU felt things were resolved. He didn't. There is a difference. Like I said before, theory of mind.

What do you make of Pea saying it was resolved, then? To me it looks like Pea didn't know his own mind. Or he had an opinion and changed it later, like what happened here.

When did he say it was resolved? Odeon took that understanding but Pea did not think it was. As I wasn't there, I cannot really vouch either way. I feel that his video points to the fact it was NOT resolved and that there was still some bad blood. Would you agree?

As for "like what happened here"? What has happened here? Someone gave him access to the sockpuppet account and his posts were alright. Then it was discovered it was Pea and he was blocked from the account due to a password change. He has posted text or videos for the community which seemed fine. His last post which had Odeon going off the Richter seemed to be a bit of a wind-up. Did it wind Odeon up? Yes it did.

So I do not understand the question and if there was any connections you are making between what caused Pea to get mad, the video, the use of the sockpuppet or the video and texts that Rockhound and occasionally I posted, I don't see it.

[odeon]

He contacted me and said as much. Let bygones be bygones or something to that effect. We had a friendly exchange of messages over some time. At the time he also said that he had no interest in returning to I2.

Now, obviously you will again interpret it in your own way, without any facts whatsoever, but quite some time after the last exchange, he posted those three videos on Youtube.

Let this rest now.

[Walkie]

hey guys! (yes i'm back-ish again)

Dammit, i note this has turned into the "rake over the Peaguy affair" thread . I was really curious about Brexit opinions.

However,many  thanks to Benjaminbreeg for posting the Chomsky vid. I shall check that out. I'm pretty damned sure Chomsky's opiinion about itt will worth listening to, unlike most.

For the record, I voted  Exit myself . There are some very rational  ( mostly left wing) reasons for leaving the EU, but they got totally buried under all the emotive crap from both sides. Luckily I'm old enough, and near enough the bottom of the social heap,  to have seen exactly what the EU has done for Britain.

Sample argument: we badly need to turn the tide re. the unending  privatisation of our industry.  EU won't let us. Neither will the Tories, come to that.    But now we're out of the EU, there might be some point in electing a socialist government, at last.   We might even find left wing acting as if they'tre left wing, . That would  an eye-opener  for all those  under-fifty kids.   They've been brought up  to believe that socialists are just  tories who wear red ties.

-walkie

[Al Swearegen]

He contacted me and said as much. Let bygones be bygones or something to that effect. We had a friendly exchange of messages over some time. At the time he also said that he had no interest in returning to I2.

Now, obviously you will again interpret it in your own way, without any facts whatsoever, but quite some time after the last exchange, he posted those three videos on Youtube.

Let this rest now.

I know that regardless of what he said, he chose to post an angry video with someone else in the video calling you a paedo. Now it does not need spindoctoring to know IF he was posting angry videos at you THEN he is not resolved as you took him to be. I do not much care how he communicated his resolution, the fact he posted the video was proof that things were not now OK with him. You were resolved and he was not.

It is fallout from your actions. A knock on effect. Bad outcomes. Both of you were in the wrong. Bad deeds from the both of you leading to bad ends. Neither of you were innocent victims in this.

[Walkie]

Sidenote on  the Peaguy thing: IIRC, he had this thing about making offensive rants against members of I2, then posting the video on YouTube. He did one about me, once.    He seemed to think we should all post offensive videos back to prove we're not a bunch of wussess.

Now , you can choose between  a whole range of more-or-less equally valid opinions about that behaviour.  My opinion is around the "not surprised he got banned" mark, but analysing what members did or didn't do to provoke Peaguy? meh.