“He who searches for evil, must first look at his own reflection.” - Confucious
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Quote from: FourAceDeal on June 22, 2016, 02:51:38 PMQuote from: odeon on June 19, 2016, 04:08:42 AMBrexit, in my mind, is mostly an emotional argument by people with misguided notions of "independence". I have yet to see a rational argument for Brexit but quite a few against it that highlight the risks involved.The Remain campaign is painting the Brexit campaign as an emotional and racist thing, but there are logical arguements which are not being addressed.Sovereignty.Further integration.The proposed EU Army which will undermine NATO.The undemocratic nature of the EU lawmakers.The culture of secret negotiations, particularly TTIP.Immigration/population explosion which has seen rents for the bottom part of society double in real terms in the last decade.None of the above are being addressed by the Remain campaign, who just point there finger at anyone who argues with them and call them idiots and racists. Hence the middle ground is left to the right wing.The reality is that plenty of politicians want this but are too afraid to back it in case the vote fails. Again, leaving the middle ground to the right wing.All in all, the new entries to the EU aren't exactly rich and aren't really raising the averages any, and Britain - as one of only two net contributors to the EU - is supposed to roll over and spunk up more cash to bail out people who are only in a mess because the EMF (read Germany and France) has fucked them over.But make that an emotional arguement if you want.I'm not making it into anything. I'm observing and the impression I get is one of an emotional argument, not a rational one. Me, I think Brexit is financial madness.
Quote from: odeon on June 19, 2016, 04:08:42 AMBrexit, in my mind, is mostly an emotional argument by people with misguided notions of "independence". I have yet to see a rational argument for Brexit but quite a few against it that highlight the risks involved.The Remain campaign is painting the Brexit campaign as an emotional and racist thing, but there are logical arguements which are not being addressed.Sovereignty.Further integration.The proposed EU Army which will undermine NATO.The undemocratic nature of the EU lawmakers.The culture of secret negotiations, particularly TTIP.Immigration/population explosion which has seen rents for the bottom part of society double in real terms in the last decade.None of the above are being addressed by the Remain campaign, who just point there finger at anyone who argues with them and call them idiots and racists. Hence the middle ground is left to the right wing.The reality is that plenty of politicians want this but are too afraid to back it in case the vote fails. Again, leaving the middle ground to the right wing.All in all, the new entries to the EU aren't exactly rich and aren't really raising the averages any, and Britain - as one of only two net contributors to the EU - is supposed to roll over and spunk up more cash to bail out people who are only in a mess because the EMF (read Germany and France) has fucked them over.But make that an emotional arguement if you want.
Brexit, in my mind, is mostly an emotional argument by people with misguided notions of "independence". I have yet to see a rational argument for Brexit but quite a few against it that highlight the risks involved.
Quote from: andersom on June 21, 2016, 04:46:25 PMThat's about how I read it too.But, it is a binding referendum. So, now I am wondering what will happen when the majority does go for the brexit option.No. It isn't. It is merely a measure of public opinion and has nothing legally binding attached to it.
That's about how I read it too.But, it is a binding referendum. So, now I am wondering what will happen when the majority does go for the brexit option.
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!
Quote from: Jack on June 21, 2016, 09:25:31 PMQuote from: Grey Area on June 21, 2016, 05:14:06 PMWell it's either that or cultural suicide.The UK would have to exit the UN to avoid multiculturalism. Many developed countries are projected to become too old and thus economically unsustainable over the next couple of generations due to low birth rates and higher life expectancy. The UN has had long term replacement migration initiatives in place since at least 2000. The US is unaffected by this particular initiative because it already takes in more than enough immigrants to maintain a sufficient young working class.While completely true this statement I fail to see why you had to say it. Multiculturalism is not and never has been an issue in the UK. While we have some idiots here, overall the UK is very well integrated in terms of multiculturalism.
Quote from: Grey Area on June 21, 2016, 05:14:06 PMWell it's either that or cultural suicide.The UK would have to exit the UN to avoid multiculturalism. Many developed countries are projected to become too old and thus economically unsustainable over the next couple of generations due to low birth rates and higher life expectancy. The UN has had long term replacement migration initiatives in place since at least 2000. The US is unaffected by this particular initiative because it already takes in more than enough immigrants to maintain a sufficient young working class.
Well it's either that or cultural suicide.
Quote from: FourAceDeal on June 22, 2016, 02:43:42 PMQuote from: andersom on June 21, 2016, 04:46:25 PMThat's about how I read it too.But, it is a binding referendum. So, now I am wondering what will happen when the majority does go for the brexit option.No. It isn't. It is merely a measure of public opinion and has nothing legally binding attached to it.Should have looked better then. Was wondering whether it was binding or not. Did not find a thing, till I saw a Wikipedia article talking about it being a binding refererendum. Not binding? That may lead to havock. People can vote, yet it will only have the status of an opinion poll. A non binding referendum is pretty frustrating. Rather not have a referendum than a non binding one.
Quote from: andersom on June 22, 2016, 04:29:47 PMQuote from: FourAceDeal on June 22, 2016, 02:43:42 PMQuote from: andersom on June 21, 2016, 04:46:25 PMThat's about how I read it too.But, it is a binding referendum. So, now I am wondering what will happen when the majority does go for the brexit option.No. It isn't. It is merely a measure of public opinion and has nothing legally binding attached to it.Should have looked better then. Was wondering whether it was binding or not. Did not find a thing, till I saw a Wikipedia article talking about it being a binding refererendum. Not binding? That may lead to havock. People can vote, yet it will only have the status of an opinion poll. A non binding referendum is pretty frustrating. Rather not have a referendum than a non binding one.Those are infuriating. We had a local one a year or two ago, about whether or not to get rid of the toll roads surrounding Gothenburg. A clear majority wanted them gone but the politicians chose to ignore the referendum.
Quote from: andersom on June 22, 2016, 04:29:47 PMQuote from: FourAceDeal on June 22, 2016, 02:43:42 PMQuote from: andersom on June 21, 2016, 04:46:25 PMThat's about how I read it too.But, it is a binding referendum. So, now I am wondering what will happen when the majority does go for the brexit option.No. It isn't. It is merely a measure of public opinion and has nothing legally binding attached to it.Should have looked better then. Was wondering whether it was binding or not. Did not find a thing, till I saw a Wikipedia article talking about it being a binding refererendum. Not binding? That may lead to havock. People can vote, yet it will only have the status of an opinion poll. A non binding referendum is pretty frustrating. Rather not have a referendum than a non binding one.While not a legally binding vote I can't see any government ignoring it. But I suspect if the vote says leave then they'll be another vote - a "do you really mean it?" thing. It's all posturing at the moment.
with referendums that are not binding is that the government then tells they will do it the way they wanted it anyway, yet they will be prepared to do some extra tweaking. Very annoying. The way to alienate the public from the government.
Quote from: andersom on June 23, 2016, 08:30:36 AMwith referendums that are not binding is that the government then tells they will do it the way they wanted it anyway, yet they will be prepared to do some extra tweaking. Very annoying. The way to alienate the public from the government.What a bunch of crap.
