Brexit omelette with ham and cheese.

[Gopher Gary]

So what is doing to happen in the end?

 

[odeon]

In the end, Kevv, the UK is fucked.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

So what is doing to happen in the end?

The UK has broken free from an undemocratic oligarchic cartel.

Anyone who tells you otherwise has drank the kool-aide.   

[Dirty Big Yoke]

Or people who understand the EU more than you do, Scrap.

It's a web of neoliberal red tape, but the UK had a shitload of clout to help introduce reform. Instead of UK MEPs doing anything (who mainly consisted of UKIP members at the time), they dodged meetings, spat the dummy and went on a huff. Now they're happy to receive the EU pension.

[Lord of the Ales]

I can't even, I wouldn't buy a fucking fridge from these snake oil peddling twats never mind accept their campaign at face value. Unfortunately 51.9% of those bothered enough to cast a vote disagreed with me. If Scotland manage to get out of this poisoned country I'd consider moving there. The weather suits me, great walking, the drink's epic and I love Irn-Bru and unusual fried foods. 

[Dirty Big Yoke]

Agreed, Scotland is the place to go. Good patter 

[Walkie]

We're all analysing the situation differently.

I've been wanting to say: i feel your pain re, the way our Govermment rode roughshod over Ireland,  Schleed.  But then they're a bunch of freaking Tories aren't they? and it;s a cryning shame that the English get fooled into re-electing them, and that the Blairites are back in full control of Labour. So it looks like we're stuck with a rightwing government for the foresable, never mind which way people vote. 

The Socialist Party's position on the EU was (and remains) that its just a" web of  neoliberal red tape" like you said, and that the only way foreward towards  a Socialist Europe is to dismantle the EU, and unite under some other banner.  So, we all voted for Brexit.  And it's thought that the only reason why Corbyn didn;t openly come out in favour of Brexit was because he had to compromise with the Blairites on that one, to get them to ratify his (old fashioned leftie)  manifesto. But, truth is,  he actually needed to get out from under EU thumb to be able fully implement that manifesto, if push ever came to shove. 

A Tory-led  Brexit is something very different than evisaged ofc But at least, if we ever manage to get a genuinely left-wing Gpvernment, they'll be in a better position to turn things around. That's a bloody big "if ", I know. but hey! we;ve got a steady stream of disillusioned Corbynistas coming over to the Socialist Party, and TUSC is going back to standing its own candidates next election ( we were campaiging for Corbyn, last time, rather than split the left wing vote by standing agsinst him). So there is an alternative brewing. Not a strong alternaruve, admittedly, but getting stronger all the time.

As for Scotland,. Well,  heck, the SNP put the nail in Corbyn's coffin by taking the opposite approach to TUSC. I mean, they basically ensured that the Tories got in. Can't really blame then ,  but still.  The prospect of Scotland leaving the UK is truly scary for the Left  (outside Scotland) because the left  has always depended on Scottish votes.  Getting rid of the Tories wothout the support of the Scots is gonna be nigh-on impossible.  I hope to god that Scotland doesn't abandon us.

It would be a whole lot better , politically,  if only the South of England declared Independance instead.  Well, i can dream *sigh*

[Dirty Big Yoke]

People on the left voting for brexit are just as stupid, IMO. There is nothing in the EU that won't allow a country be socialist in nature, or that somehow EU laws are incompatible with a socialist system. Even Sinn Fein in N. Ireland realised this, and they're very eurosceptical!

The UK had tremendous clout to make reforms, but never attempted to. The UK had the means to do a clean and orderly brexit, with a deal to allow the best of both worlds, and still made a complete balls of it. I have no faith in this country anymore.

Scotland is likely to leave, and frankly I'm all for it. The UK in it's current state cannot exist anymore.

[Walkie]

People on the left voting for brexit are just as stupid, IMO. There is nothing in the EU that won't allow a country be socialist in nature, or that somehow EU laws are incompatible with a socialist system. Even Sinn Fein in N. Ireland realised this, and they're very eurosceptical!

The UK had tremendous clout to make reforms, but never attempted to. The UK had the means to do a clean and orderly brexit, with a deal to allow the best of both worlds, and still made a complete balls of it. I have no faith in this country anymore.

Scotland is likely to leave, and frankly I'm all for it. The UK in it's current state cannot exist anymore.

When you say UK this and UK that, you actually mean the Tory Bastards who are clinging to power in the UK  by fair means and (mostly) foul at present, and UKIP.  Try not to tar the whole country with the same brush,. Most UK citizens were born here and  have nowhere else to go  after all. And we evidently can't all pile into Scotland.  The worst you can say about most of us is that, prior to the Brexit referderum and Corbyn's ascendency, we were too disillusioned with the options to trouble to vote . And i guess it's going back to that now. But cutting loose from the UK altogether is not a more noble nor heplful; approach to the problem, just understandably self-centred.

[Dirty Big Yoke]

When you say UK this and UK that, you actually mean the Tory Bastards who are clinging to power in the UK  by fair means and (mostly) foul at present, and UKIP.  Try not to tar the whole country with the same brush,. Most UK citizens were born here and  have nowhere else to go  after all. And we evidently can't all pile into Scotland.  The worst you can say about most of us is that, prior to the Brexit referderum and Corbyn's ascendency, we were too disillusioned with the options to trouble to vote . And i guess it's going back to that now.

It's more than just the tories. I'll hold anyone who voted for it responsible when shit hits the fan, and shit indeed will hit it. Don't try to "other" yourself when you are part of the problem here. Part of the reason why I'm going to be made redundant is directly due to it. Part of the reason why my partner is getting fucked over in regards to disability benefits and essential medication, particularly for her chronic pain (she has EDS), is directly due to it. Some of my friends, who have been attacked due to their race, is directly due to it. Sorry, not buying it.

But cutting loose from the UK altogether is not a more noble nor heplful; approach to the problem, just understandably self-centred.

It's self centred to run part of a country to the ground, to the point they want independence? Independence is the best chance they have at this point to get out of this brexit hellscape.

It's funny though, same shite was said when Ireland wanted to leave - we had to literally fight you eejits to a stalemate just to barely get that (and even then, took a lot of jumping hoops just to get 3/4s of it fully independent). Be grateful that Scotland wants to do it again by a referendum.

[Minister Of Silly Walks]

People on the left voting for brexit are just as stupid, IMO.

Putting it down to stupidity, though, is papering over a LOT of issues that have led us to where we are.

Huge numbers of people are misinformed and terrified of leftists in general. The conservatives and the right know exactly what they are doing and they are extremely well funded and they know how to get into people's heads.

And the reality is that the working class and, increasingly, much of the middle class has been progressively getting screwed over for decades. They know that they are getting screwed over, they just don't know the mechanics of it. Many are buying the portrayal of leftists as "globalists" and blame the left for offshoring of manufacturing and service jobs, and immigration programs designed to undercut the rights and conditions of the working class and some professions. Immigration is not inherently a problem, immigration as a tool of neoliberalism IS inherently bad.

[odeon]

It amazes me that there are still people who think Brexit is a good idea.

[Dirty Big Yoke]

People on the left voting for brexit are just as stupid, IMO.

Putting it down to stupidity, though, is papering over a LOT of issues that have led us to where we are.

Huge numbers of people are misinformed and terrified of leftists in general. The conservatives and the right know exactly what they are doing and they are extremely well funded and they know how to get into people's heads.

And the reality is that the working class and, increasingly, much of the middle class has been progressively getting screwed over for decades. They know that they are getting screwed over, they just don't know the mechanics of it. Many are buying the portrayal of leftists as "globalists" and blame the left for offshoring of manufacturing and service jobs, and immigration programs designed to undercut the rights and conditions of the working class and some professions. Immigration is not inherently a problem, immigration as a tool of neoliberalism IS inherently bad.

It was stupid in terms of the referendum (they could have gave multiple options rather than a simple yes/no, as there is on single agreed upon kind of brexit), and I do think the people who voted for it, regardless of their justification, are also stupid for thinking it was a good idea.

Regardless if you did it for some misguided aim to have a socialist utopia or not, it will fuck the country up. Hard. We're already seeing the effects of this (even before covid), and brexit hasn't even fully happened yet. I spent 4 years battling with mental health issues... purely because of it. It's fucking crazy.

This is why, as a leftist, I get annoyed at some other leftists - no concept of pragmatism at all. All they care about is ideological purity rather than the wellbeing of people.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

Huge numbers of people are misinformed and terrified of leftists in general. The conservatives and the right know exactly what they are doing and they are extremely well funded and they know how to get into people's heads.

No, the problem is that people are waking up to just how insane the Left have become, especially in the US. BLM is an openly Marxist organization who has as one of its stated goals, to dismantle the nuclear family. Yes, the #1 problem with black Americans is fatherlessness and those lesbian Marxists want to make it worse, turning black people into a permanent criminal class.

Let's not even mention the 69,472 new genders along with their made up pronouns and giving hormones to confused kids who really don't understand their sexuality. And decriminalizing pedophilia in California? Nope, nothing to see here. This is the new utopian normal. Speaking of decriminalization, California made theft of less than $900 NOT a crime and politicians are excusing all the looting, calling it reparations and It's ok if the looters need the stuff.

Really, you're at the point of denial that's no longer defensible.

[Dirty Big Yoke]

Scrap, do you honestly believe the shite you're writing?

Like this for example:

BLM is an openly Marxist organization who has as one of its stated goals, to dismantle the nuclear family.

This line in itself is so fucking stupid and out of touch with reality, I don't even know where to begin... and you claim that I believe in complete nonsense?

BLM's aims are to tackle systemic racism, not to "dismantle the nuclear family", holy fuck - people are still free to have nuclear families