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Author Topic: Pillow Angel  (Read 663 times)

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Offline El

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Pillow Angel
« on: January 06, 2007, 07:41:34 AM »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6229799.stm?ls

It kind of sickens me, but I understand the logic behind it.  What do you guys think about it?
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Offline DirtDawg

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2007, 08:09:54 AM »
I am repulsed, but not so much if it is a unique case. If we see an interest developing in keeping human baby pets, then I would really have a problem.

I know a guy with a cousin, who never grew and never developed mentally past about a six month old's level. She's about thirty, now and, if I recall correctly weighs less than forty pounds. She has been in and out of a special hospitol since she was about two. I found out about her when talking to him about our kids having autism and he seemed to know a little and so I told him more.

I became intrigued when he told me about her and that she had recently been diagnosed with autism, in addition to all her hormonal and congenital difficulties, but I wonder how they can diagnose a six month old, unless she is actually considerably more advanced than they believed at first. I hope, that if there is a kind entity overseeing the innocent, that she truly has the mind of an infant. I feel the same way about the "Pillow Angel" ... I hope she has no sense of her conditions.

The parents may feel some guilt about some of the decisions they have made and are simply trying to find validation.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 08:14:17 AM by DirtDawg »
Jimi Hendrix: When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. 

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2007, 09:27:38 AM »
I can partially understand their reasoning,but I don't agree with it. Afterall, what with there being recent research showing that those in vegetative states are not actually as vegetative as first thought...who knows just what is in the mind of that child. And I find it incredibly selfish to remove parts of her just to make it easier to carry her, etc, those caring for adults manage. I just find it subversive personally, but that is my opinion.

purposefulinsanity

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2007, 10:03:49 AM »
After reading the link that Callaway posted about this yesterday http://ashleytreatment.spaces.live.com/blog/ I can believe that they did it because they thought it was best for their child and not because they wanted her as some kind of pet.  I think that they're obviously trying very hard to give her a better quality of life.   What would be the purpose of that child having to go through the pain of menstruation for instance? Especially when you consider that she can't even communicate when she is in pain.

I believe that her parents see any benefit they get from this as seconadary to the benefits their daughter will get.

Offline El

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2007, 11:05:09 AM »
SOryr it was posted bfore; I didn't see it.
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

purposefulinsanity

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2007, 11:09:31 AM »
SOryr it was posted bfore; I didn't see it.

I think its worthwhile having its own topic, its a very interesting case- I posted Callaway's link because I think it adds something to the discussion.

Offline McGiver

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2007, 11:15:21 AM »
what happens when this girls parents die?


Misunderstood.

purposefulinsanity

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2007, 11:45:36 AM »
what happens when this girls parents die?




I wonder if her life expectancy would be as long as a 'normal' person- maybe her condition will leave her more prone to serious infections, etc.  ???

Offline Callaway

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2007, 12:20:39 PM »
After reading the link that Callaway posted about this yesterday http://ashleytreatment.spaces.live.com/blog/ I can believe that they did it because they thought it was best for their child and not because they wanted her as some kind of pet.  I think that they're obviously trying very hard to give her a better quality of life.   What would be the purpose of that child having to go through the pain of menstruation for instance? Especially when you consider that she can't even communicate when she is in pain.

I believe that her parents see any benefit they get from this as seconadary to the benefits their daughter will get.

This decision bothered me until I read her parents' side of the story.  This decision was agreed to by an ethics committee of forty people, who did not just rubber stamp her parents' decision.  One of the things they considered was if Ashley's brain could ever get better.  They determined that it could not and that she would always function at the level of an infant for the rest of her life.  Was there any way that Ashley could ever want to get pregnant and therefore regret the loss of her uterus?(The doctors left her ovaries.)  No.  The only way Ashley could ever have become pregnant was because of a rape, which sometimes happens to bedridden women with the mentality of infants in long term care facilities.  Removing Ashley's breast buds was the issue that gave the ethics committee the most moral problems.  They agreed to it because Ashley's mind was that of a three month old baby and she was starting precocious puberty at six years old.  Large breasts ran on both sides of the family and her breasts were already becoming bothered by the straps that held her upright in her wheelchair or in her stander.  Also fibrocystic breast disease ran in her family and maybe breast cancer as well.  There are women who opt to have their breast tissue removed if they know they are at substantial risk of cancer or other diseases and Ashley would never be able to tell her parents about any problems with her breasts that she developed.  

As for deliberately stunting Ashley's growth, unless you have ever cared for, transported, changed diapers for and given baths to full-sized adults who have the mentality of infants, you have no idea how much their size limits their world.  I know a woman who has a 23 year old maybe 150 pound daughter who functions at infant level because of encephalitis caused by chicken pox she got when she was a baby.  Nina is more advanced than Ashley because she learned to sit up and even walk like a one year old after years and years of physical therapy, so at least she is not bedridden, but she can't talk.  She has a variety of infant toys that she can hold herself.  Nina especially likes the musical ones with lights.  I have not talked to Nina's mother about Ashley yet so I don't know what she thinks about it, but I do know that taking Nina out has become very difficult for her now that she can't pick her up anymore.  Nina can't walk that well and diapering her in public has become a huge problem, so Nina spends most days at home and her mother pays people a small fortune to babysit Nina for a couple of hours so she can run errands and buy groceries and such.  Caregivers who know how to change the diapers of adults are expensive.

I love my ten year old 70 pound daughter with all my heart and even her world has become more limited as I have gotten less able to carry her out of dangerous situations or meltdowns.  I can barely pick her up anymore and I can't carry her very far when she is having a meltdown, so even though she would love to play in children's playplaces, for example, I can't carry her there alone anymore.

As for what happens to Ashley or Nina or even my daughter when her parents die, that is an issue that wakes me up at night in a cold sweat.  My brothers have agreed to care for my daughter if my husband and I both die and she needs to be cared for, but of course I steadfastly hope that she won't need to be cared for by them.  Nina's parents have a son who has agreed to care for Nina if they both die, but she will need to live in a long term care facility then because he would not be able to both care for her 24/7 and work at his job.   They don't have very much money so they have set up a special needs trust for Nina so any money that she would have inherited from them goes into that trust rather than passing to her directly and therefore messing up her ability to get Medicaid.

Offline Callaway

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2007, 12:26:20 PM »
what happens when this girls parents die?




I wonder if her life expectancy would be as long as a 'normal' person- maybe her condition will leave her more prone to serious infections, etc.  ???

I think the website said that many children with Ashley's problem die before they are five years old.

Offline McGiver

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2007, 01:53:00 PM »
what happens when this girls parents die?




I wonder if her life expectancy would be as long as a 'normal' person- maybe her condition will leave her more prone to serious infections, etc.  ???

I think the website said that many children with Ashley's problem die before they are five years old.

she is 9 so she has already beaten the odds.
Misunderstood.

ozymandias

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2007, 03:26:43 PM »
After having read the article, I can agree with the parents decision.  At least an ethics commitee had a say in the matter.  I can tell you from experience that taking complete care of a full grown adult with the mind of a child or is morbidly obese is not fun.  A skinny old person is a lot easier to care for when they need total care.  As for the incidences of molestation and rape in long term care facilities, it HAPPENS more than you think.  I'v seen nursing assistants show up for work drunk and allowed to STAY.  I'v worked besides some awesome people, but, I have worked besides some real scum bags.  Many health facilities do not do background checks on workers because of chronic shortstaffing and just plain cheapness.  That is changing, but, slowly!

Offline Nomaken

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2007, 03:22:19 AM »
I vote we pay an assassin to change the moral issue here.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 03:35:51 AM by Nomaken »
And as always, these are simply my worthless opinions.
Reverence is fine, Sanctity is silly.
We're all fucked, it helps to remember that.

purposefulinsanity

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2007, 04:29:28 AM »
I vote we pay an assassin to change the moral issue here.

In what way?

Offline Nomaken

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Re: Pillow Angel
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2007, 04:52:09 AM »
Change it from the morality of physically altering a human unable to voice a preference, to the morality of mercy killing.
And as always, these are simply my worthless opinions.
Reverence is fine, Sanctity is silly.
We're all fucked, it helps to remember that.