When the law doesn't apply to you

[MLA]

Do you ever talk about anything else?

You didn't seem to mind when you were Possum.  I just find the outrageous double standards very interesting.

Hubert and Possum are not the same person. ...Are they? 

Hubert = Possum = MLA   

[benjimanbreeg]

Not really, he's just lied again and said he didn't mean to make the claim, even though he did. 

I think that's the definition of a retraction, plus he posted it on facebook so that makes it especially meaningful. 

If he was fully retracting, he would have just admitted that what he said was completely incorrect.  Where as he's just tweaked it a bit.  The main point is though that by normal standards he should be standing down as PM and arrested.

It seems to me he retracted, but I'm wondering if what he said is even against the law there. He didn't deny or diminish the proportions of acts, or praise, express sympathy or identify with Nazis. Some countries have holocaust speech laws that include other things like inciting the public, banned symbolisms, generalized hate speech laws that could cover lots of things including the jewish, and even statements like his that imply shifting the blame away from the Nazis, but I don't see that to be true in what I'm reading about laws in Israel. 

But he said he didn't mean to claim that it was the Mufti that convinced him, when it's exactly what he meant at the time.  He threw enough mud though.  He did it to make European nationalists believe that he and Israel are on their side, when in fact they despise any goyim. 

He was passing the blame to another ethnicity and blur the responsibility which falls under point 5 of Working definition of Holocaust Denial and Distortion, so does that not mean that countries with the Holocaust laws should be asking for him to be sent there for trial?  Either way, it makes him a "Holocaust Denier".

[Gopher Gary]

But he said he didn't mean to claim that it was the Mufti that convinced him, when it's exactly what he meant at the time.  He threw enough mud though.  He did it to make European nationalists believe that he and Israel are on their side, when in fact they despise any goyim. 

He was passing the blame to another ethnicity and blur the responsibility which falls under point 5 of Working definition of Holocaust Denial and Distortion, so does that not mean that countries with the Holocaust laws should be asking for him to be sent there for trial?  Either way, it makes him a "Holocaust Denier".

I'm not going to pretend like I know what he meant to say, I'm just saying he retracted the statement and clarified what he claims to have meant. Saying he should be charged or tried according to the laws of other countries is pointless unless he actually does it while in those countries. 

[Gopher Gary]

Not really, he's just lied again and said he didn't mean to make the claim, even though he did. 

I think that's the definition of a retraction, plus he posted it on facebook so that makes it especially meaningful. 

It has to be on FB to mean something.

Twitter is the most thoughtful and meaningful. 

[odeon]

Not really, he's just lied again and said he didn't mean to make the claim, even though he did. 

I think that's the definition of a retraction, plus he posted it on facebook so that makes it especially meaningful. 

It has to be on FB to mean something.

Twitter is the most thoughtful and meaningful. 

A bit too wordy for me.

[benjimanbreeg]

But he said he didn't mean to claim that it was the Mufti that convinced him, when it's exactly what he meant at the time.  He threw enough mud though.  He did it to make European nationalists believe that he and Israel are on their side, when in fact they despise any goyim. 

He was passing the blame to another ethnicity and blur the responsibility which falls under point 5 of Working definition of Holocaust Denial and Distortion, so does that not mean that countries with the Holocaust laws should be asking for him to be sent there for trial?  Either way, it makes him a "Holocaust Denier".

I'm not going to pretend like I know what he meant to say, I'm just saying he retracted the statement and clarified what he claims to have meant. Saying he should be charged or tried according to the laws of other countries is pointless unless he actually does it while in those countries. 

That's fine, i've just read and seen enough to know what he means, and what he doesn't mean.  Ernst Zundel got deported to Germany to stand trial for alleged previous crimes, but I am not sure if he'd done it while in Germany, or just because it's his homeland.

[Gopher Gary]

But he said he didn't mean to claim that it was the Mufti that convinced him, when it's exactly what he meant at the time.  He threw enough mud though.  He did it to make European nationalists believe that he and Israel are on their side, when in fact they despise any goyim. 

He was passing the blame to another ethnicity and blur the responsibility which falls under point 5 of Working definition of Holocaust Denial and Distortion, so does that not mean that countries with the Holocaust laws should be asking for him to be sent there for trial?  Either way, it makes him a "Holocaust Denier".

I'm not going to pretend like I know what he meant to say, I'm just saying he retracted the statement and clarified what he claims to have meant. Saying he should be charged or tried according to the laws of other countries is pointless unless he actually does it while in those countries. 

That's fine, i've just read and seen enough to know what he means, and what he doesn't mean.  Ernst Zundel got deported to Germany to stand trial for alleged previous crimes, but I am not sure if he'd done it while in Germany, or just because it's his homeland.

From what I'm reading about the laws that actually apply to him, it doesn't even matter what he means. You're exhausting to me to try to have conversations like this. Jurisdiction and citizenship are huge factors in attempts to extradite people. Germany can't extradite me because I'm over here doing stuff that would be against the law over there. I'm a US citizen in the US so it's okay if I'm breaking German laws that don't apply to me because I'm not doing it there. 

[odeon]

The US took the concept a bit further than that when they filled Guantanamo in the wake of 9/11. Think about it: A citizen of one foreign country kidnapped in another and imprisoned in a third, supposedly violating US or international laws but never tried before a jury...

[Gopher Gary]

The US took the concept a bit further than that when they filled Guantanamo in the wake of 9/11. Think about it: A citizen of one foreign country kidnapped in another and imprisoned in a third, supposedly violating US or international laws but never tried before a jury...

Now we just let the UK lock them up in immigrant containment centers. That'll teach them to talk smack about the holocaust. 

[benjimanbreeg]

But he said he didn't mean to claim that it was the Mufti that convinced him, when it's exactly what he meant at the time.  He threw enough mud though.  He did it to make European nationalists believe that he and Israel are on their side, when in fact they despise any goyim. 

He was passing the blame to another ethnicity and blur the responsibility which falls under point 5 of Working definition of Holocaust Denial and Distortion, so does that not mean that countries with the Holocaust laws should be asking for him to be sent there for trial?  Either way, it makes him a "Holocaust Denier".

I'm not going to pretend like I know what he meant to say, I'm just saying he retracted the statement and clarified what he claims to have meant. Saying he should be charged or tried according to the laws of other countries is pointless unless he actually does it while in those countries. 

That's fine, i've just read and seen enough to know what he means, and what he doesn't mean.  Ernst Zundel got deported to Germany to stand trial for alleged previous crimes, but I am not sure if he'd done it while in Germany, or just because it's his homeland.

From what I'm reading about the laws that actually apply to him, it doesn't even matter what he means. You're exhausting to me to try to have conversations like this. Jurisdiction and citizenship are huge factors in attempts to extradite people. Germany can't extradite me because I'm over here doing stuff that would be against the law over there. I'm a US citizen in the US so it's okay if I'm breaking German laws that don't apply to me because I'm not doing it there. 

The laws in Israel don't seem to apply to him:

"In Israel, a law to criminalize Holocaust denial was passed by the Knesset on July 8, 1986.

Denial of Holocaust (Prohibition) Law, 5746-1986
Definitions 1. In this Law, "crime against the Jewish people" and "crime against humanity" have the same respective meanings as in the "Nazis and Nazi Collaborators Law, 5710-1950.
Prohibition of Denial of Holocaust 2. A person who, in writing or by word of mouth, publishes any statement denying or diminishing the proportions of acts committed in the period of the Nazi regime, which are crimes against the Jewish people or crimes against humanity, with intent to defend the perpetrators of those acts or to express sympathy or identification with them, shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.
Prohibition of publication of expression for sympathy for Nazi crimes 3. A person who, in writing or by word of mouth, publishes any statement expressing praise or sympathy for or identification with acts done in the period of the Nazi regime, which are crimes against the Jewish people or crimes against humanity, shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.
Permitted publication."

...So he wouldn't need to be deported anyway.  Yeah I get that, I was just wondering if these Holocaust Laws are an exception. 

[benjimanbreeg]

The US took the concept a bit further than that when they filled Guantanamo in the wake of 9/11. Think about it: A citizen of one foreign country kidnapped in another and imprisoned in a third, supposedly violating US or international laws but never tried before a jury...

Yeah good point.

[Gopher Gary]

...So he wouldn't need to be deported anyway.  Yeah I get that, I was just wondering if these Holocaust Laws are an exception. 

I just don't see how his statements broke that law. What he said was a statement that shifts blame away from the Nazis. Some countries have laws against statements like that, but It doesn't appear Israel is one of them.

Yeah good point.

I just thought odeon was making a joke about something I said in another thread, about people talking about things that other people aren't talking about. 

['andersom']

...So he wouldn't need to be deported anyway.  Yeah I get that, I was just wondering if these Holocaust Laws are an exception. 

I just don't see how his statements broke that law. What he said was a statement that shifts blame away from the Nazis. Some countries have laws against statements like that, but It doesn't appear Israel is one of them.

That's what I thought too.

Bibi can try to change what he said/meant, but he cannot make it unread nor unheard what he uttered in the first place. Will haunt him a bit still, as a politician. Because also the reactions on what he said he cannot make unheard or unsaid, from both friends and foes.

He'll have to tread a bit carefully the coming time.

(But, he sure knows how to stay in charge for long long times)

[MLA]

But he said he didn't mean to claim that it was the Mufti that convinced him, when it's exactly what he meant at the time.  He threw enough mud though.  He did it to make European nationalists believe that he and Israel are on their side, when in fact they despise any goyim. 

He was passing the blame to another ethnicity and blur the responsibility which falls under point 5 of Working definition of Holocaust Denial and Distortion, so does that not mean that countries with the Holocaust laws should be asking for him to be sent there for trial?  Either way, it makes him a "Holocaust Denier".

I'm not going to pretend like I know what he meant to say, I'm just saying he retracted the statement and clarified what he claims to have meant. Saying he should be charged or tried according to the laws of other countries is pointless unless he actually does it while in those countries. 

That's fine, i've just read and seen enough to know what he means, and what he doesn't mean.  Ernst Zundel got deported to Germany to stand trial for alleged previous crimes, but I am not sure if he'd done it while in Germany, or just because it's his homeland.

From what I'm reading about the laws that actually apply to him, it doesn't even matter what he means. You're exhausting to me to try to have conversations like this. Jurisdiction and citizenship are huge factors in attempts to extradite people. Germany can't extradite me because I'm over here doing stuff that would be against the law over there. I'm a US citizen in the US so it's okay if I'm breaking German laws that don't apply to me because I'm not doing it there. 

Benji is confused by the law.

An added twist, the US won't extradite any citizen to a foreign country unless the law they broke, while they were in said foreign country, is also illegal had it been done while in the United States, and the punishment for violating said law is comparable to what it would be over here.  And even then, only if we have a ratified extradition treaty, which means that the other country must have agreed to a similar provision with their citizens.

[MLA]

The US took the concept a bit further than that when they filled Guantanamo in the wake of 9/11. Think about it: A citizen of one foreign country kidnapped in another and imprisoned in a third, supposedly violating US or international laws but never tried before a jury...

Article two run amok