Racism is indeed institutionalized

[RageBeoulve]

Made this thread because I have observed SGs feelings on the matter, and I think he would find a few things I have learned on the subject rather interesting. I have noticed this phenomenon consistently occurs across the board regarding social movements in the "west", but I will stick with racism for now. I'll go ahead and just flat out display one of the events I think is related to the problem of racism in the country he and I are natives of, and let the discussion take it's course from there. Nice and organic-like.

https://destee.com/index.php?threads/spying-the-naacp-garvey.59381/

http://www.freedomarchives.org/Documents/Finder/Black%20Liberation%20Disk/Black%20Power!/SugahData/Government/COINTELPRO.S.pdf

[WolFish]

The problem that I've seen here is that no one can agree on a definition of racism. There is an academic definition but most people ignore it when it suits them. I constantly ran into this issue in my cultural diversity class. Students who would take at face value something they read on the internet would hotly contest the definition of racism in the textbook because it didn't include them.

I'll be interested to see if anyone takes the bait.

[Jack]

The problem that I've seen here is that no one can agree on a definition of racism. There is an academic definition but most people ignore it when it suits them. I constantly ran into this issue in my cultural diversity class. Students who would take at face value something they read on the internet would hotly contest the definition of racism in the textbook because it didn't include them.

I'll be interested to see if anyone takes the bait.

Jack will take your bait, as it's the reason in believing all people are racist, in that racism is by definition a viewpoint of one race being inherently superior or inferior to another, being better or worse. Even positive things people don't acknowledge as racism, such as orientals are smarter and blacks are more athletic, are racist viewpoints. The intolerance that comes along with bigotry is equally interesting, as it doesn't always have to be a topic of race.

[Pyraxis]

Is it always racism to observe inequalities? Do you have to cover your eyes and pretend you don't see it? Or is it only racism if you want to harm people because you think based on prior patterns that they will be unequal?

[Jack]

Is it always racism to observe inequalities?

Would like to know wolfish's answer to that question. When those inequities are generalized as belonging to the whole of any racial group, probably yes.

Do you have to cover your eyes and pretend you don't see it?

It seems some people are allowed to openly say they see it, while others cant and must pretend they don't see it.

Or is it only racism if you want to harm people because you think based on prior patterns that they will be unequal?

Not by definition, no. Wanting to harm people is evil, intolerance of entire groups is bigoted, and neither requires persons to be of a different race.

[Gopher Gary]

Wanting to harm people is evil

That's bigoted to the BDSM people, Jack. 

[RageBeoulve]

Is it always racism to observe inequalities? Do you have to cover your eyes and pretend you don't see it? Or is it only racism if you want to harm people because you think based on prior patterns that they will be unequal?

My point was that racism is institutionalized in our culture because even structures like the NAACP have their roots in "controlling the niggers". The highest award given by the NAACP is named after a guy who organized a spy and culture infiltration network which attempted to socially engineer a permanent underclass.

The meat of the project was understanding Afro-American identity and using that knowledge to draw in the most talented black youth as "civil rights" leaders with goals and opinions appropriate for maintaining an underclass under the guise of empowerment. The eternal dependency and self perpetuating victimization promised a gorgeous political and monetary boon in the future.

A brilliant social engineering project, and the prototype for many to come after that period. It seems to have succeeded, btw.

[RageBeoulve]

The problem that I've seen here is that no one can agree on a definition of racism. There is an academic definition but most people ignore it when it suits them. I constantly ran into this issue in my cultural diversity class. Students who would take at face value something they read on the internet would hotly contest the definition of racism in the textbook because it didn't include them.

I'll be interested to see if anyone takes the bait.

I'd say that racism could be defined thusly:

The targeting of a person for the purpose of predatory activity, based on the color of their skin or ancestry.

['andersom']

The problem that I've seen here is that no one can agree on a definition of racism. There is an academic definition but most people ignore it when it suits them. I constantly ran into this issue in my cultural diversity class. Students who would take at face value something they read on the internet would hotly contest the definition of racism in the textbook because it didn't include them.

I'll be interested to see if anyone takes the bait.

I'd say that racism could be defined thusly:

The targeting of a person for the purpose of predatory activity, based on the color of their skin or ancestry.

Should not the same be true if targeting is not happening for the same reason?

(Example: A while ago got told that an absolute brat (5 yo) and his mother could not be addressed for his misbehaviour in the shop, because we could be insulting a whole ethnic culture with that. His sisters are very well behaved, and are kept in control. The boy is like a spoiled king allowed to do anything, including demolishing shop stuff. To me it taking an entire culture not serious as responsible people.)

When groups form, either voluntarily or involuntarily, there will be good things happening in those groups, and bad things. Both specifically belonging to this group. Sometimes targeting may need to be more specifically aimed at that group.
Lots of countries have one group of second generation immigrants with a significant higher percentage of schizophrenia. (different groups per country) Not being aware of that, or not wanting to act on the awareness, because of being afraid of seen as racist is wrong. Acting towards that group, as if all of them are likely to become schizophrenic is equally wrong.
Finding out what it is that such a significant higher amount of individuals from this particular group, in this specific country, is important. It will mean targeting specific interaction of a group and the major country structure they are in.

[odeon]

The highest award given by the NAACP is named after a guy who organized a spy and culture infiltration network which attempted to socially engineer a permanent underclass.

And the Nobel Peace Prize happened in part because somebody invented dynamite.

[RageBeoulve]

The highest award given by the NAACP is named after a guy who organized a spy and culture infiltration network which attempted to socially engineer a permanent underclass.

And the Nobel Peace Prize happened in part because somebody invented dynamite.

Crazy world, eh? 

[RageBeoulve]

Should not the same be true if targeting is not happening for the same reason?

(Example: A while ago got told that an absolute brat (5 yo) and his mother could not be addressed for his misbehaviour in the shop, because we could be insulting a whole ethnic culture with that. His sisters are very well behaved, and are kept in control. The boy is like a spoiled king allowed to do anything, including demolishing shop stuff. To me it taking an entire culture not serious as responsible people.)

When groups form, either voluntarily or involuntarily, there will be good things happening in those groups, and bad things. Both specifically belonging to this group. Sometimes targeting may need to be more specifically aimed at that group.
Lots of countries have one group of second generation immigrants with a significant higher percentage of schizophrenia. (different groups per country) Not being aware of that, or not wanting to act on the awareness, because of being afraid of seen as racist is wrong. Acting towards that group, as if all of them are likely to become schizophrenic is equally wrong.
Finding out what it is that such a significant higher amount of individuals from this particular group, in this specific country, is important. It will mean targeting specific interaction of a group and the major country structure they are in.

That's a great point, actually. Treating someone with kid gloves because you consider them a minority actually does not benefit them and produces a fertile ground for self destructive behaviors in that demographic. This is actually predatory behavior, even if it is not intended to be eh?

The solution: The people aforementioned should receive no special permissiveness because they are of another ethnic group unless they are within their own culture, in their own nation. If they are in someone else's nation, then they should respect that nation's customs or gtfo. Asking anything else is actually racist. This is why I think multiculturalism is stupid, really. Some love it because they fancy their home "nationalist" if it doesn't look like star trek, but I do not find this realistic.

Immigration is great, and people from other cultures who want to be a part of mine make me grin from ear to ear. I would welcome them like sisters and brothers into my country and value their contributions with the utmost gratitude. However, when they come in expecting to change everything to suit the culture they just left, and create a welfare state that bankrupts everyone but the rich with their vote...

I kind of think of them as invasive cunts, and I would not be opposed to the military gathering them up and throwing them out.

[RageBeoulve]

Should not the same be true if targeting is not happening for the same reason?

That reminds me of something that just absolutely pisses me off, too. I can't stand it when I see people who consider themselves to be "progressive" in my country kissing black people's asses and baby talking them. I guess they don't realize what they're doing , or what that looks like but it is EXTREMELY condescending.

Its like baby-talking a dog or a cat, or something. Floors me how people think that's "good" to do to a racial demographic, and how they don't understand that is basically talking down to someone because you think you're smarter or superior to them.

[Queen Victoria]

Does racism have its roots in animal/primitive man survival? 
How much racism is there in the animal kingdom that we don't recognize?
Both would have to compete with other species or individuals of their own species for survival. 
Better to belittle the other party as weaker or inferior to keep them under your thumb or anger them so they'll be more mistake prone in a fight.  We haven't translated a lot of other species languages. Does that grunt mean an insult? 
Better to be afraid or wary of your opponent to increase your chances of survival. 
Fairly easy to view or treat the whole of the "others" in this way in the survival of the fittest atmosphere. 

[odeon]

I'd love to know if there is racism among animals. I'd also love to know how one would find out.